The Remington Model 700 Rumour

[Firebird]

I would like to use this thread to comment on an issue I had with a Remington rifle. I bought a brand new still in the box Remington in .30-06. One of the cool ones with the bull barrel touted as a long range set up. Took it home and pulled it out and the barrel was clearly not straight. Scratched my head as the box had no dents and finally took it back to the reputable gun dealer. Laid it on the counter and a group of salesmen gathered around. They contacted the area rep for Remington and he wasn't far away so they asked me to stay. I agreed to another new rifle, same model etc. New box, opened in front of the group of salesmen and sure enough, another bent barrel-visible without using a tool to check it. We opened six boxes total and all bad barrels. Sales rep came, shrugged his shoulders and suggested I try a .300 instead. I did not purchase a rifle and honestly it tainted my opinion of the brand. Sales rep could have offered a gift cert to mcdonalds and it would have been something, instead he just looked stupid in front of all the salesmen and a group of customers.
Poor quality assurance, faulty product, poor face to face contact equals loss of customer.

 

[Hogpatrol]

The trigger issue is relatively old news and I would surmise most were never returned for a retrofit because their owners never had a problem and are cognizant of safe handling rules. The video is proof of Jockstrap Joe's expertise at being a gunsmith trying to make a stock 700 trigger in to a benchrest version without the necessary skills. There are more than a few quality replacement triggers for the 700s, Timney, Jewell, Geissele, Bix 'n Andy to name a few. I was using Jewells but have recently switched to Bix 'n Andy. On a hunting rifle, I like the safety setup on the Tac Sport version.

 

[Firebird]

-Didn't intend to infer that Timney was the only or the best, I have used several brands with good success. Been looking at the Bix 'n Andy for my current project that timney doensn't have an option for. I did infer that switching to an aftermarket trigger is a relatively inexpensive improvement to most rifles.

 

[Ray B]

I recall reading that the Walker trigger was enough of a copy of Winchester's Model 52 trigger that Remington had to have a two piece sear to avoid patent infringement payments. I have heard of no problems with the M52, but then it may have a different type of shooter involved. A fellow I knew had an unintended discharge but I'm not sure what type of rifle he had. the situation was that he was hunting, round chambered & safety on. He saw a deer, aimed and pressed the trigger. He had neglected to remove the safety. so he flipped off the safety. He had removed his finger from the trigger but when the safety went off, the rifle fired. I didn't hear what the problem was diagnosed to be. It could have been the sear didn't return to engaged due to improper adjustment or excessive friction.

 

[deewayne2003]

Yes!

Many have went off without having the trigger pulled, but only after some nitwit with a bent screwdriver and a broken claw hammer adjusted screws he should have never touched.

I would have to disagree.... I saw this first hand before the 2011 deer hunting season; the manager of my cousins ranch had just purchased a Remington 700 in 300win.

This rifle was purchased brand new in box from a local gun shop and when Curtis(the ranch manager) returned to the ranch we mounted the scope and proceeded to the rifle range to sight it in.

Curtis loaded the rifle with 1 round, closed the bolt and moved the safety to the fire position and ....BOOM!!!! it goes off

I watched him repeat this same process of loading 1 round in the chamber and flip the safety off 3 more times and there was 1 additional unintended discharge. So of 4 shots we total 2 of them occurred when the safety was moved to the fire position.

The rifle was immediately taken back to the gun shop and returned to the owner and while Curtis was explaining what had happened, the owner of the shop loaded a LIVE ROUND into this rifle and flipped the safety to fire before Curtis could stop hims and .....BOOM!!!!!

The gun shop had a new hole in the ceiling and the rifle was sent back to Remington.

Beyond that particular experience I had seen several instances of new Remington 700 rifles failing to extract the empty casing from the chamber and it appeared to me that Remington's quality control had gone down hill considerably.

Another notable example was a friend of mine got a brand new Remington 700 in 7mm Mag, along with a new box of Remington Corelokt ammo and again we were at the range sighting it in for the first time.

After 3-4 shots (with NO accidental discharges), my friend Kyle started complaining about his eye hurting and I thought he was creeping up on the scope, so I watched him shoot again and it wasn't the scope..... it wasn't until I looked at the casing he took out of the chamber and noticed the PRIMER WAS BLOWN OUT!

Then I checked the rest of the fired casings....ALL THE PRIMERS WERE BLOWN OUT!

So before sending it back to Remington we took it to a gunsmith and had him look at it - the head space was WAY OFF!

I've owned over a dozen Remington 700's in the past, but the only one I currently own is a 700 Stainless Sendero in .300Wby; it will clover leaf 180gr bullets at 200yds.

I'm not decrying Remington rifles...I just think their quality control went so far down hill that I no longer trust them as a rule of thumb.

 

[sestoppelman]

See what you did Major Khan? We call it opening a can of worms....

 

[IvW]

I dislike Rem M700 especially in the larger calibers. The first I owned was a M700 classic in 375 H&H...what a piece of crap....

Way too light for caliber, shit extractor, lack of capacity and the worst rifle to reload from the top...after 1 season I got rid of it and had a 375 H&H built on a ZKK602 action all problems solved.....between M700 and Weatherby's it would be a toss up which one would discharge when taking the safety to fire.......

 

[crs]

I have never owned a Remington rifle, BUT one did go off and place a round between my feet!

In American Sportsman's Club hunting camp after the morning hunt. Most rifles were slung or put away when a young member and I returned to camp. My M70 was unloaded and slung over my shoulder but the youngster was carrying his Dad's M700 over his arm, still fully loaded. As we approached camp, I had unloaded my rifle and suggested that he do the same, but since it was his Dad's he did not know how and would have his dad unload in camp. It seems he started to hunt with his familiar 30-30 but his Dad insisted he use the M700 .270.

With neither of us moving a muscle, the 700 fired and the bullet kicked up dust and rock fragments between my feet. This scared the group, but since I was unscathed, I gently reminded him that such accidents were the reason for unloading outside camp. There was no doubt a lot said by lots of folk, but I just went to my tent to put away my gear. That was 40+ years ago, but I still remember it clearly.

 

[PARA45]

My 700 ADL was purchased brand new, and no one has touched anything internally on that rifle, no one adjusted anything on the trigger, nothing, nada, zip. I'm not bad mouthing Remington for this, it happens. I'm not saying that all Rem 700 of that era were bad, unfortunately my rifle was bad without gunsmith wanabe Joe Bag of Doughnuts touching my rifle. My rifle didn't get fixed by Remington because I was station overseas at that time, and when I got back too much time had passed.

I pull that rifle from the safe every couple of months to clean it, and cycle the bolt several times, and I have not been able to duplicate the issue since the last time it happened. Unfortunately I don't trust the rifle, and it will remain in the safe until I replace the trigger group.

 

[PARA45]

@IvW, funny you say that about Weatherbys, I have half a safe full of Weatherbys; Japan and US made and I have never had any issues with them discharging.

 

[IvW]

@IvW, funny you say that about Weatherbys, I have half a safe full of Weatherbys; Japan and US made and I have never had any issues with them discharging.

I had issues with three different ones..2 clients and one my own.....
Once it happens you loose the faith....and trust and it just sticks....

 

[CoElkHunter]

@IvW, funny you say that about Weatherbys, I have half a safe full of Weatherbys; Japan and US made and I have never had any issues with them discharging.

“Safe half full of Weatherbys”? Time for a Spring clean out here on the classifieds? Ha! Ha!

 

[CoElkHunter]

The rifle in the video has insufficient sear engagement. He's getting it by the way he preps the bolt. It's probably coming from a combination of reducing the pull weight and failing to check for positive sear reset...a good reason why you should have to take the action out of the stock to adjust the trigger. Most people are not going to take the time to check these things on their rifles after adjustment. I slap the hell out of the stock, run the bolt soft and slow, run the bolt hard and fast, pull the trigger with the safety on. I take the safety off after each test. Then I have faith in the action being sound and the trigger repeatable.

Forrest,
Don’t be messing around with a 700 in your living room like you do with your Lott. You’re likely to put a hole in your roof!
CEH

 

[Ray B]

@IvW, I have half a safe full of Weatherbys;

Is that the same as a whole safe half full?

 

[Ray B]

I haven't followed the trigger saga or the quality control issues of Remington. My experience with Remingtons involves four rifles. 1. 4 digit M700 made in 1962. The only "adjusting" that was done to it was when it was new, sitting in the living room, confirmed it was empty, then cycling the action for hours. As noted elsewhere on the forum, this rifle was taken to all points of North America north of Mexico, in all sorts of conditions and then used for classroom demonstration and "live fire" for my hunter education classes for more than 30 years and over a thousand students (shooting five rounds each). the only time the rifle ever had a problem was once when my cousin was using it, he was unloading it and the cartridge stuck in the chamber because the extractor hadn't snapped over the rim as he was opening/closing the bolt. Never a problem with the trigger or safety. #2 When I was in college the varsity rifle team had some Remington 37s and Winchester 52. Both were quality rifles and I had no preference with their use. Each would fire one hole groups with no operational problems. #3 a Remington M740 from about 1955 in 30-06. It was purchased new for my dad and he took it on several deer and elk hunts and noted no problems. After his death the rifle went to my step-dad and he used it on deer and elk hunts. Again, with no problems. The 740s have a rap that they are "jam-o-matics", but I suspect it is more a function of maintenance because this rifle functions as well today as ever- no jams, flawless cycling and reasonable (for an self-loader) accuracy. #4 Remington 30-S 257 Roberts made about 1935. No problems, excellent accuracy, but then it's about 85 years old and before the current issues.

So I suppose as in any manufacturing process, when margins get tight and foremen are pushed for production, substandard products get through the inspection process. Some designs have a tighter tolerance of workable/non-workable specs and that may be what has happened to current Remington designs.

 

[Nyati]

I have a Remington 700 Mountain rifle in .243.

No issues, great trigger.

 

[sestoppelman]

The thing with the supposed going off by themselves. If one is handling the rifle and it "goes off" as some contend, the likelihood is that there was a finger on the trigger while unloading or slamming the bolt closed or whatever. So ask yourself. What is a person, especially a young person going to say when you ask if they had their finger on the trigger just after it "went off"? You guessed it. Not me, uh uh, not me. The gun just went off.
This is a potential drawback of the blind magazine model, the ADL, in that the rounds must be run thru the rifle manually by bolt operation, instead of dropping the floor plate of the BDL. Its all too easy to have that finger where it doesn't belong. I saw my dad do this once while unloading a Rem 700 ADL. Funny thing is, the Rem trigger thing was in the news about that time. When I quizzed him, he admitted it was quite possible he was careless, but the rifle was pointed away from everything and nobody got hurt. That is the point of safe gun handling, if the man made mechanical device fails, and they can and do, RULE ONE keeps everybody safe.
There are many, many unintended discharges every year, but very few are the fault of whatever gun had one.

 

[James Adamson]

I have had 2 700 BDL's in 30-06, no issues with the triggers but both of them ended up being chopped up. First one honestly couldn't keep all the shots on an A4 sheet of paper at 100 yards. This one was replaced by Remington, they said the barrel was a Friday afternoon job. The replacement rifle wasnt much better, the best groups were 3-4 inches with factory or hand loads but the groups wandered about all over the place. I had the rifle bedded, re-crowned and threaded, this stopped the groups from wandering but didn't tighten up the groups so it went for the chop. I also bought a Remington 870 pump action 12 bore that was the roughest made firearm I've ever laid hands on, if I had made it myself in the shed I would still have been pretty disappointed, I sold it on for a pittance a month later. No more Remington's for me I'm afraid, wouldn't waste another penny on them.

 

[35bore]

I have had 2 700 BDL's in 30-06, no issues with the triggers but both of them ended up being chopped up. First one honestly couldn't keep all the shots on an A4 sheet of paper at 100 yards. This one was replaced by Remington, they said the barrel was a Friday afternoon job. The replacement rifle wasnt much better, the best groups were 3-4 inches with factory or hand loads but the groups wandered about all over the place. I had the rifle bedded, re-crowned and threaded, this stopped the groups from wandering but didn't tighten up the groups so it went for the chop. I also bought a Remington 870 pump action 12 bore that was the roughest made firearm I've ever laid hands on, if I had made it myself in the shed I would still have been pretty disappointed, I sold it on for a pittance a month later. No more Remington's for me I'm afraid, wouldn't waste another penny on them.

Okay, you've owned 2 700's, both inaccurate, then you get rid of them because of inaccuracy, got it. I've done the same with 70's, 700's, 77's, 1500's, weatherby, Brownings, 110's, 116's, and probably a few I'm forgetting about. All manufactures have put out crap for accuracy rifles. But, to the OP you answered that saying no premature discharge and no trigger/safety issue. Anyone who has been around firearms long enough has there favorite and the ones they absolutely hate, for whatever reason, I like rhe 700s and am sorry others have had such horrible experiences. This is turning into a Remington bashing session though.

 

[WAB]

I had a 788 go off when I fell on ice. I think it was my fault as I had adjusted the trigger below where it should have been set.

The 700 is a fine rifle. I am a M70 fan, but there is a reason so many sniper platforms start with a 700 action.