The Law of Diminishing Return

[Russ16]

As much as we all complain about the declining quality of consumer goods modern manufacturing has made some things better at more affordable price points.

I picked up a $700 Tikka 30-06. It shoots nearly any load I put into it at 3/4 - 1 MOA right out of the box. I see no reason for a vastly more expensive everyday rifle. There are things I don’t like about the rifle (I hate detachable magazines) but I can’t complain at all about the performance.

As for scopes the Swarovski Z5i+ is absolutely on par with what would have been top of the line a few years ago. Yes the Z8 line is a bit better but at significantly more cost. The savings between the tow can go towards other things.

 

[uplander01]

Maybe I'm an outlier but I just believe you get what you pay for. German optics have a reputation for being the best because they are. But they are still a mechanical device, made by humans, and can therefore fail. The only angle or anecdotes I have are 2. I have never had a Swaro, or Schmidt & Bender scope come out of zero, on any of the magnum level rifles over more than 2 decades. I literally broken numerous other brands due to recoil, (Leupold, Zeiss Conquest, Meopta, Vortex). I prefer S&B, But have had great luck with the modern era Swaro. I have a couple of Zeiss scopes, a diavari and victory that appear to be as bulletproof as well although the eye relief is not as good as the other German brands.

Secondly, I had a pair of Leica 8x32 binos fly off the back of a suburban in SE Alaska and hit the gravel road and tumble down the in the ditch. I was sure they would be trashed. I picked them up, dusted them off and used them for the rest of the trip, not many other brands would be able to take that. It goes without saying the Leica is the only brand of binos I use to this day, and that was 25 years ago.

Buy once cry once. There is a reason why things cost more...but that doesn't mean you always have to have the most expensive.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I have Trijicons and Nightforce on rifles that could suddenly drop to the ground. Everything else goes by the adage, "Perfection is the enemy of good enough", or buy what works.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I like the idea of a used thrift store leather purse for a binocular case.
I’m going to Goodwill!

I just used the leather. Broke it down and sewed a holster to fit the binoculars. Still needed to add a snap for strap when this photo was taken.

 

[BeeMaa]

My hunting rifles all wear Swaro Z8i glass. We have three sets of binos, all of them Leica. Rifles are Blaser R8's.

What I will say is that we're much more comfortable having less items that are of very high quality, than having more items that are of mediocre or low quality.

Diminishing returns on optics, absolutely. For every $1K added you get less and less as it goes up. As long as you don't make the mistake of looking through those "top tier" lenses, your bank account will be fine. Once you see the difference, it's over.

 

[mark-hunter]

I picked up a $700 Tikka 30-06. It shoots nearly any load I put into it at 3/4 - 1 MOA right out of the box

Accuracy on Tikka is correct. But the price is under question. In Europe, they run new from 1400 to over 2000 EUR, depending on the model. Over with the budget gun. Now they are entering the middle-class market.
But they are good.

 

[dogcat1]

Not sure I follow the logic here. Cheap = good, but expensive maybe not???
I have shot Swarovski, Barska, Leupold, Trijicon, Meopta, Schmidt and Bender, Zeiss scopes. All "work", but the Swarovski and S&B work "better", meaning my eye sees things better with those brands. So, I buy what works - Swarovski.

On binos, I have used 7 brands. I now only use Leica. Why? They are better to my eye.

On rifles, I have owned over 200 big game rifles in a variety or actions, makes, models and brands.
For me - Winchester Model 70 (new CRF) and a worked over Mauser fit the bill. Second on that list is the H-S Precision action. The rest, well, they are the "rest".

For clothes, I have tried everything from Red Oxx to Filson to whatever. Frankly, the Academy brand "Magellen" suits me the best.

On boots, I have had 5 different brands. For hills/mountains - Kenektrek. For flat ground and long hikes - Danner.

On ammo - Barnes TSX, or Swift AFrame or Trophy Bonded Bearclaw. The rest are not what I want, expecially Berger bullets.

For scope mounts - Talley. The rest are not as good and do not work they way I prefer.

So, to each his own.

At the end of it all - you get what you pay for....

There is not a single instance of low quality delivering top results. You always get what yo pay for.

If you can afford a good car/truck, why not buy it? Why buy a POS 10 year old anything and expect it to last. It won't and it can't.

Talking this is like talking politics. There are hard heads out there that think they can negotiate a cheap African hunts and get a great experience. Cannot and does not happen. You ALWAYS get what you pay for.

 

[Flbt]

Not sure I follow the logic here. Cheap = good, but expensive maybe not???
I have shot Swarovski, Barska, Leupold, Trijicon, Meopta, Schmidt and Bender, Zeiss scopes. All "work", but the Swarovski and S&B work "better", meaning my eye sees things better with those brands. So, I buy what works - Swarovski.

On binos, I have used 7 brands. I now only use Leica. Why? They are better to my eye.

On rifles, I have owned over 200 big game rifles in a variety or actions, makes, models and brands.
For me - Winchester Model 70 (new CRF) and a worked over Mauser fit the bill. Second on that list is the H-S Precision action. The rest, well, they are the "rest".

For clothes, I have tried everything from Red Oxx to Filson to whatever. Frankly, the Academy brand "Magellen" suits me the best.

On boots, I have had 5 different brands. For hills/mountains - Kenektrek. For flat ground and long hikes - Danner.

On ammo - Barnes TSX, or Swift AFrame or Trophy Bonded Bearclaw. The rest are not what I want, expecially Berger bullets.

For scope mounts - Talley. The rest are not as good and do not work they way I prefer.

So, to each his own.

At the end of it all - you get what you pay for....

There is not a single instance of low quality delivering top results. You always get what yo pay for.

If you can afford a good car/truck, why not buy it? Why buy a POS 10 year old anything and expect it to last. It won't and it can't.

Talking this is like talking politics. There are hard heads out there that think they can negotiate a cheap African hunts and get a great experience. Cannot and does not happen. You ALWAYS get what you pay for.

I believe you would be better off with a 79 restored pickup than anything after 95.
I have had way more problems with new trucks than the old ones the best I ever had was a 80 bought in 90
Used it for hunting and farm work and going back and forth 25 miles one way to the real job. The only bad was 6mpg
I have a cheep stevens rifle modle 200 it’s got the cheap combo scope that came on it.
It’s still sighted in (as of today) it’s been through the swamps heat and rain of fl
Spent months at the time in the farm pickup.
The only time it has had to be ajested was changing ammo.
It plenty bright enough to go past our 30 min past sundown.
It’s worked for over 20 years not being babied. And if I remember right rifle and scope was 239$

 

[mark-hunter]

If you can afford a good car/truck, why not buy it? Why buy a POS 10 year old anything and expect it to last. It won't and it can't.

A matter of priority.
For that money, I would prefer to invest in safari.

 

[Russ16]

Accuracy on Tikka is correct. But the price is under question. In Europe, they run new from 1400 to over 2000 EUR, depending on the model. Over with the budget gun. Now they are entering the middle-class market.
But they are good.

T3x lite blued synthetic stock was - little over $700 back in December. Price has gone out to a little over $800 now. Again a lot I hate about the gun the stock feels cheap and that dang detachable mag. But it shoots like crazy.

 

[Safari Dave]

Many years ago I read that the scope that you put onto a rifle should cost the same as the rifle.

But for me and with close to 60 years of hunting experience here in the western US I'll stick with my Leopold's. They have never failed me in snowstorms, rain that was blowing sideways. From early mornings to late evenings and everything in-between.

Every time that I thought that there was a problem with the scope I found out that it was just the person that was pulling the trigger.

90% of my scopes are Leupold, and I've never had a problem. I've also never had a problem with Zeiss, Trijicon, Nikon, nor Nightforce.

My primary hunting binoculars are Zeiss, and I've never had a problem.

My compact binoculars are Leica, and I've never had a problem.



Problems:

Vortex Scopes - craptastic for the money, IMO. I had one, it wouldn't hold zero, sent it back, got a replacement and immediately sold it.
Tasco Scopes
Simmons Scopes
Bushnell Binoculars
Bausch & Lomb Binoculars

My son likes Maven, but I haven't used them.

Your mileage may vary...

 

[Wyfox]

I enjoy using nice shit, it makes me happy, I don't need to justify it.

Factory guns don't do anything for me so I have custom rifles built to my specifications aka "Gun Snob".
I'm 100% a glass snob too, my primary guns wear Tangent Theta's and Schmidt and Benders.
My binos are Swaro's.

 

[Luvthunt]

And the beat goes on, oh well

 

[Huvius]

Man! I must be missing out on something here!
Just to think how much better my life would be if I only had a rifle topped with a $3000 scope instead of the old Zeiss, Ajack, Noske and Leupolds!!
It impresses me how the desire to “have the best” drives these industries as it does in all luxury goods, and the prices of new high grade scopes puts them firmly into the luxury goods category.

I also have to chuckle a bit thinking that in the OR, your neurosurgeon likely doesn’t even have the microscope he/she prefers, yet they still perform your brain or spine surgery just the same…
Want vs. need I suppose.

 

[uplander01]

I don't know bro, I think your neurosurgeon is probably using some pretty good stuff. LOL

 

[Flewis]

Guy’s, the good old USA runs on wont not need. We all have more than we need.

 

[Nevada Mike]

Use vs Cost of Ownership. Everyone has to sort this out for themselves.

 

[Huvius]

I don't know bro, I think your neurosurgeon is probably using some pretty good stuff. LOL

Pretty good, yes, but usually not the one they prefer.

 

[Nhoro]

I enjoy using nice shit, it makes me happy, I don't need to justify it.

Factory guns don't do anything for me so I have custom rifles built to my specifications aka "Gun Snob".
I'm 100% a glass snob too, my primary guns wear Tangent Theta's and Schmidt and Benders.
My binos are Swaro's.

I appreciate your honesty. I think that is the most truthful answer on this thread. If it gives you pleasure and you want to spend your money on glass that's great.

 

[Nhoro]

I have 4 cheap scopes that work. A nikko sterling that I took apart and cleaned. No seals and very little that can go wrong. A hawke airgun scope, A Lynx and a Vortex surefire. All hold zero and I can hit what I am aiming at. I have used high value camera and optics while at work and they are nice. I always choose mid level products from recognised brands because you get a lot of features for your money. High end products are giving small percentage gains for lots of money. But I have done really well on those scopes and some cheap nikon binos I bought for my boys.

I have come to realise that the people around you are important and the shared experiences. If you are trying to win a who has the biggest weiner contest with the latest greatest bit of kit, then have at it. Some cheap stuff is junk, some is fantastic. And lastly, if you start your post by referring to your fancy brand scope on a fancy brand rifle I will immediately assume you have a small weiner and are compensating !