The last pair of binoculars

[Tanks]

Swarovski 10x42 SLC is discontinued. I have been happy with 10x42 EL.

 

[Rimshot]

My only question for those who use binoculars that have a range finder included in them, what do you use for either when the range finder fails and you have sent them back to the factory for repairs and you have a hunt in the next couple of weeks?

I would counter that in my experience, high quality and relatively simple laser rangefinders are extremely robust. There simply isn't anything mechanical to "wear out" except for the battery. To be fair, failure can certainly happen but like all decently engineered electronics if it IS going to fail, it will do so early on in it's life aka infant mortality. If it doesn't die an early death then I can usually count on it for decades. There's a world of difference between something like this and a sub $100 chineseium electronic gizmo.

If the rangefinder failed right before a trip, I wouldn't be sending them for repair then. The binoculars still work. I'd just take a pocket rangefinder and deal with it and repair when I got back. I'd like to see just how often this happens, but I'd bet the odds are approaching astronomical enough to just worry about other things.

Having a rangefinder separate seems a better choice if only for the future upgrade as that technology is moving faster than on the optics themselves. I have the Sig Kilo 2200BDX and it is very good. I can see the advantage in use but seems like planned obsolescence and contrary to a "lifetime" purchase.

Yes, a lot of rangefinders now have a ton of other features built in with ballistic apps, atmospheric sensors, inclinometers, bluetooth to your phone, etc. My Zeiss has ballistic features but I don't use them. Except for some of the PRS and competition stuff I don't think they'd be particularly useful, especially in most hunting scenarios. I see it as mostly a gimmick that a lot of people are convinced they need but is in reality pretty niche. I just want to know the range to the target - I can dial the range on my scope and as long as the altitude is within 2000 ft and temperature within 20 degrees of the calculated values the turret is etched for it will be within 1/4 MOA.

In my opinion, the most important technology in laser rangefinders is actually pretty slow moving and has reached mostly a plateau as far as the hunter is concerned: 1 - maximum range, and 2 - laser beam width (horizontal/vertical spread). They come up with longer ranged lasers all the time but do you need more than 2 miles of range?

 

[Newby]

Thanks for starting this great thread. I am also looking for my "Lifetime binoculars". Does anyone have direct feedback on the new NL Pure? I am leaning that way or possible to the Zeiss Victory SF both 10x42.

I have the 10x42 NL Pure. For the reasons in my previous post I prefer 8x to 10x for all around use, but I wanted something with a little more punch than my Zeiss 8x42 HTs. The FOV was the tipping point for me with the NLs - near enough to the same FOV as my 8s.

Theoretically there should be a tardeoff with depth of focus with 10 as opposed to 8 but I can't see it with mine. Don't doubt that it may be there, but when looking for it, I can't see it. There is also a little more shake with 10s as opposed to 8s, but the way the NLs sit deep in your hand, right down on the big bones, without much grip from the fingers, reduces shake noticeably. The forehead rest also reduces shake, but more so in hastily assumed positiions, rather than the braced positions likely to be used by a hunter.

I don't have much use for a RF so a stand alone RF works fine for me. For me, the NL Pure is currently at the top for a non RF bin. If I didn't my my 8x42 Zeiss, I could get by very nicely with only an 8x42 NL.

I agree with others who have said that if one has much use for a RF, built in to the bin is the only way to go. Low light/dark performance is noticeably worse, but if you have 10x, that performance has already been lost. The built in is just much easier to use, because of the much bigger exit pupil and the much steadier grip, that it's a no brainer, regardless of any update/failure considerations or expense.

I see the bumps on the bottom of the Swaro RF bins as actually being an advantage, because the junk that is in the bumps is being kept out of the tubes, which should improve low light performance

 

[Tra3]

I would counter that in my experience, high quality and relatively simple laser rangefinders are extremely robust. There simply isn't anything mechanical to "wear out" except for the battery. To be fair, failure can certainly happen but like all decently engineered electronics if it IS going to fail, it will do so early on in it's life aka infant mortality. If it doesn't die an early death then I can usually count on it for decades. There's a world of difference between something like this and a sub $100 chineseium electronic gizmo.

If the rangefinder failed right before a trip, I wouldn't be sending them for repair then. The binoculars still work. I'd just take a pocket rangefinder and deal with it and repair when I got back. I'd like to see just how often this happens, but I'd bet the odds are approaching astronomical enough to just worry about other things.




Yes, a lot of rangefinders now have a ton of other features built in with ballistic apps, atmospheric sensors, inclinometers, bluetooth to your phone, etc. My Zeiss has ballistic features but I don't use them. Except for some of the PRS and competition stuff I don't think they'd be particularly useful, especially in most hunting scenarios. I see it as mostly a gimmick that a lot of people are convinced they need but is in reality pretty niche. I just want to know the range to the target - I can dial the range on my scope and as long as the altitude is within 2000 ft and temperature within 20 degrees of the calculated values the turret is etched for it will be within 1/4 MOA.

In my opinion, the most important technology in laser rangefinders is actually pretty slow moving and has reached mostly a plateau as far as the hunter is concerned: 1 - maximum range, and 2 - laser beam width (horizontal/vertical spread). They come up with longer ranged lasers all the time but do you need more than 2 miles of range?

I regularly use the rangefinding option in my vortex fury binoculars to measure how far I need to hike to close the gap for a shot. An antelope at 1200 yards means I should walk for a while, it also gives me a concept of how long it will take to get there. Sometimes 600 and 1000 yards seem similar, but if you crawl up on the wrong hill for a shot, whoops. That measurement helps me to pick where to go.
(Funny thing is I seemed to be able to do the same thing before rangefinders).

 

[uplander01]

I work in sales for the hunting industry in the US for the last 16 years, and have represented Leica, Ziess, Minox at one time or another. Been through all the training and used all three extensively to almost outright abuse testing. In the circle of ultimate optics snobs you can put Swaro, Leica, Ziess in any order of 1,2,3 that you want and that is the answer.

All that being said the most extreme case of durability I have ever seen was on a trip to Canada bear hunting, had the Leica 8x32 fly off the back of a truck and roll behind on a gravel road as we started to move. Picked them up and brushed the dust off, had a couple small scratches on the lens, other than that perfect working order. Horse traded those along the way, wish I never would have. Currently use Zeiess 10x42 victory for last 10 years, no regrets. Bino fine print, you get what you pay for.

 

[redriverjake]

Hello again gentlemen, I hope everyone is well. First, let me start off by saying thank you again for everyone’s input and advice. The “chosen one” has arrived and I’m currently sitting in the back yard soaking in my first impressions. I’m going to lay out the reasons I picked what I did and tell you how I feel about my decision so far.

For as long as I can remember wanting a pair of top tier binoculars Swarovski has been at the top of my list. It’s a brand that is synonymous with quality.

The model that always caught my eye from an esthetic point of view was the SLC. That was true way back when and is still the case today. There is something I find classic and ruggedly elegant about them. I’ve always been attracted to the classics in all aspects of life. I’m an analog guy in a digital world.(never mind my digital watch at the moment, it’s temporary )

I chose the 10x42 because detail is important to me, I need to be able see that broken horn tip just as badly as I do those little fuzzies on the backside of a big tom. I’ve used 7x, 8x,10x,12x, and 15x. The 10s have always been my preferred magnification, not too much and not too little.

In closing, I couldn’t be happier with my decision. When I look at these I feel like I can see every dollar that I spent. They came beautifully packaged. The ergonomics are wonderful, they fit in my hand/hands like they were specifically crafted for me. The weight and size are ideal, they ride perfectly under my left arm and the weight makes them feel solid and easy to steady. The optical quality is all I could ask for, clear and crisp where I need it to be. There might be “better“ but with everything considered I honestly don’t feel like I’m missing a thing. I also got to save a little money that I had allocated for glass and put it in savings towards my “two pipe”. All together a wonderful experience and I look forward to viewing the great game fields of Africa for many years to come with these in tow. Onwards and upwards gents ! Salute

 

[Newby]

Lifetime purchase, as you were seeking. Well done. Obviously there is still SLC stock around.

 

[Graham Hunter]

Lifetime purchase, as you were seeking. Well done. Obviously there is still SLC stock around.

You won't be disappointed!

 

[MarkB]

Dam good job, on this thread (lots of good info drawn out) and on your purchase.

MB

 

[fourfive8]

Agreed, those Swarovskis were a good choice!

As an addendum to this binocs selection discussion. At least 20 years ago I purchased an armored Zeiss Jena 7x40 NVA pair of binoculars for a whopping $60 from a milsurp source... Wish I had bought several! Research indicates they were made in the 60s - 70s under contract for the East German Army. Pretty heavy, very clear glass, perfect collimation and built like a tank- typical Eastern Bloc military simplicity and toughness. Individual diopter focus. These probably spent time on "Wall" duty. I wouldn't doubt some of the most rugged binoculars ever made. Not necessarily for all day carry but would be excellent for vehicle or knock about use. I just looked at some online and I see they have been discovered Prices for decent used condition units look to be running about $200-400. However if you see some online or hear of any for decent price, IMO, worth serious consideration and second look.

 

[Chago]

Too bad your vortex didn't turn out for you. I personally have had great success with them for rifle scopes. I have never owned one of there binos.

I currently own the Nikons with built in rangefinder. I love the combination of two tools in one. One less thing to carry around. I wouldn't classify them as a last pair of binos. But I have a number of hunting buddies who have the swaro version. And personally. There's no comparison. The glass and quality is mountains better. I will be buying those likely this summer before my Limpopo trip. But again I would strongly suggest the combo version.

 

[WAB]

I appreciate @redriverjake starting this thread. After reading the combined experiences of the group and following on with quite a bit of research of the relative merits of the Swaro SLC and EL models, I just received a pair of 10x42 SLC’s. I believe I may have bought my last pair of bino’s.

 

[Woodcarver]

A Nikon 10x28 ATB has served me well for about 25 years. Unfortunately, they quit making them a number of years ago. These binos have lived in a truck all their life; used several times a week. Carried around my neck for several weeks at least every year. We'll see if the Prostaff line of compacts does as well. I have one of them, but the old set still gets the most use.
Having played with Swaro and Zeiss binos, I liked the clarity of both (don't remember the specific models), but I cannot rationalize the significant price difference for the marginal improvement over my Nikons. If I think I have a need to be looking at stuff a significant distance away, that's what the spotting scope is for.
As to rangefinders, somebody else said it pretty well, they just give me an idea of how far I'm going to walk before I take a shot. If I need one, there's still some walking to do.
I cannot figure out how Vortex has been mentioned as a potential for anything but the trash bin. Their spotting scope was junk, terrible light transmission compared to anybody else, including Tasco. This was in a side by side comparison of every spotting scope in the case. Spent almost 2 hours packing spotting scopes out to the sidewalk, 2 at a time, and counting cracks on the side of Cheyenne Mountain in late afternoon with storm clouds darkening the sky. Ultimately came down to the 60mm Swaro and the 80mm Nikon. Settled on the Nikon because it was half the money of the Swaro. (The 80mm Swaro was the best glass, but weighed almost a pound more, that's why it was eliminated). This was in advance of a sheep hunt that took 16 years to get the tag. The Nikon has performed perfectly for the 9 years I've had it.
The 3 Vortex riflescopes I've used had the same issue as the spotting scope; poor light transmission. And one of them wouldn't hold zero either. Haven't tried their binos because all the other stuff was unimpressive to say the least.

 

[Ike85123]

I have Swarovski 12x50 binos that I use while in truck. They see very far away and are great for low light. Then those go in the bag and are left in the truck, too heavy to carry around.
Then I use 8x32 Swarovski binos for the field. They fit in my chest pocket and are very light.
I find have 2 pair is great, plus I always have a back up pair that way.
I never worry about a range finder in them. The ph will tell u distance and windage.

 

[tedthorn]

Easy.....
KOWA

 

[fourfive8]

While Kowa isn't mentioned often they make pretty good optics. I see the big Kowa spotting scopes at the range fairly often. I know nothing about their binocs but no reason to believe they wouldn't be pretty good. I guess not a lot of buzz nor track record. I've noticed an odd phenomenon about the Kowa name. Since the uninformed sometimes don't pay close attention, many get the Konus spotting scopes thinking they are buying the Kowa for a bargain. Ooops

 

[Quaticman]

I just purchased a set of Leica Trinovid HD 8 x 42 binoculars. I wanted to get a
" high end" binocular and did a fair bit of research before purchasing. I looked at Swarovski, Zeiss, Steiner, Nikon, Leupold and Vortex.
In my opinion it's hard to beat the combination of build quality, optical clarity and price point ($1,200.00 CDN) of the Leica Trinovid line of binoculars.

 

[machinistbutler]

@Quaticman how have you liked the trinovids so far? I am also looking at upgrading. Sold my Steiner Peregrine's that I really liked, have Elite Hd ones 10x42 that are ok, great view but I don't like the diopter set up.

I also am considering the swaro SLC , now selling as Kahles Helia S, but unsure if we can get them in north America.

The price of the top Swaro Pure, El , Leica Noctovids ,Ultravids are just a little high for me .Well they are ok for me but my wife wouldn't be impressed., "Don't you already have binoculars"

I got the double rifle approved somehow but 4.grand for binoculars would put me at risk of mental and physical harm.

 

[Andrew Short]

I had Leupold gold rings for years “$1299” and recently upgraded to the 8x42 SLC. These binos are lighter and have a much sharper image than that of the leupold. Granted the Leupold were 15 years old… The light transmission at dusk is unrivaled in my opinion.

 

[PerH]

Agreed, those Swarovskis were a good choice!

As an addendum to this binocs selection discussion. At least 20 years ago I purchased an armored Zeiss Jena 7x40 NVA pair of binoculars for a whopping $60 from a milsurp source... Wish I had bought several! Research indicates they were made in the 60s - 70s under contract for the East German Army. Pretty heavy, very clear glass, perfect collimation and built like a tank- typical Eastern Bloc military simplicity and toughness. Individual diopter focus. These probably spent time on "Wall" duty. I wouldn't doubt some of the most rugged binoculars ever made. Not necessarily for all day carry but would be excellent for vehicle or knock about use. I just looked at some online and I see they have been discovered Prices for decent used condition units look to be running about $200-400. However if you see some online or hear of any for decent price, IMO, worth serious consideration and second look.

View attachment 393112
View attachment 393116

Very good binocs that is. Zeiss Jena ( who also supplied the Soviets with optic factory in the 1930s ,sniper scopes,binocs etc)

When wall fell down they changed name to Docter

Now their name is Noblex,and they have some pretty good deals on both binocs and scopes at very good prices. I am suddenly feeling for a 8x56 or 10x42 from them.