The humble 308 Win still a classic Bushveld caliber

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Given the quality of hunting bullets, I believe the 308 is now better than the 30-06. Almost identical downrange results with less kick and shorter action.

I own both as my two primary hunting rifles. Love both. If I had to choose- 308.

@dmyers
With new powders such as Hogdon CFE223 that gives the 08 a boost it is even closer to the 06.
My loads using this powder give the 150 accubonds 2,950 fps and 4he 168 match king 2,830 fps. Both very safe with no pressure issues and straight out of reloading manuals
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

My 308 is Browning BLR, bought because held 4 rounds and can shoot further than the 30-30.

In retrospect, I should have bought the BLR in 300wsm. The 308 does the job on 200 pound animals but I still prefer the flat out wallop the 7mm rem mag, 300wsm/win mag has.

I've only shot 5 animals with the 308 with 3 different bullets. I'm still searching for the right load. Going to try the Hornady 165gr sst superperfomance locally this year - Maybe that will give me the right amount of power, expansion, and penetration I'm looking for.

@curtism1234
Load it with cfe223 to 2,800++ fps and go have fun.
The SST is a great bullet along with the good old classic 168 grain game king.
Bob

 

[RayAtkinson]

Comparing the 308 to the 30-06 is a waste of time, either one will do the same job under any circumstances, as will the 270, 280, 284, 7x57 and a host of others.

 

[Fastrig]

Ive seen more elephants killed with a .308 than any other caliber, so guess the 308 finally grew up to be a big boy...I suggest the .308 nay sayers go watch a elephant cull someday and watch those big pachaderms crumble before those milsurp autos in .308 caliber and quit reading those damn gun magazines..

Used a 308 win as my primary rifle for a lot of years, never had a problem dropping anything I shot with it. My old 308 hunting rifle was retired a couple of years ago, she was flat wore out, and have since gone to a 300 win mag and a 9.3x62 combo. Have a Merkel RX Helix with these two caliber barrels and very happy with the setup. Miss my old 308 win though and looking for a third barrel in that classic caliber for the Merkel. Really like the 308 win over 22’s for practicing at the range as it’s a true hunting round so feels like a rifle in the field does when shot, performs pretty close to the win mag and 9.3 at 200-250 yards, is more affordable to shoot than the other two, and find transitioning to the others from the 308 pretty seamless. Another plus, it’s hard to beat a 308 win for white tail in the Texas Hill Country.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Is a Toyota Corolla a classic or just a workhorse?
Its .243 child has become a classic but the poor old .308 will always live in its classic brothers shadow.

Its a wonderful useful caliber but a classic it is not.

@shark_za
The 243 should have been shot at birth to big for small game and to small for medium game.
Bob

 

[CBH Australia]

@shark_za
The 243 should have been shot at birth to big for small game and to small for medium game.
Bob

Oh, Bob.

 

[shark_za]

@shark_za
The 243 should have been shot at birth to big for small game and to small for medium game.
Bob

There is one classic hunting scenario in South Africa that the .243 is downright perfect for, Springbok hunting in the Karoo. Ambush "Voorsit" hunting on open plains to fill the freezer with meat.
Freezing morning in winter, social hunting with friends and then some serious "Kuiering" with copious amounts of alcohol every night; round that off with the best tasting lamb chops on the planet (Karoo Lamb).
See that is what makes a classic, not the pretend to do it all .308.

(the 6x45 has a following because the .243 is too fast for small game bushveld hunting, but thats another story)

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

There is one classic hunting scenario in South Africa that the .243 is downright perfect for, Springbok hunting in the Karoo. Ambush "Voorsit" hunting on open plains to fill the freezer with meat.
Freezing morning in winter, social hunting with friends and then some serious "Kuiering" with copious amounts of alcohol every night; round that off with the best tasting lamb chops on the planet (Karoo Lamb).
See that is what makes a classic, not the pretend to do it all .308.

(the 6x45 has a following because the .243 is too fast for small game bushveld hunting, but thats another story)

@shark_za
Mate that's where the 250 savage or 257 Roberts would be ideal. Both classic calibers and Enmore versatile than the 243.
Bob

 

[ZG47]

Serious windup time now!

 

[Newby]

There is one classic hunting scenario in South Africa that the .243 is downright perfect for, Springbok hunting in the Karoo. Ambush "Voorsit" hunting on open plains to fill the freezer with meat.
Freezing morning in winter, social hunting with friends and then some serious "Kuiering" with copious amounts of alcohol every night; round that off with the best tasting lamb chops on the planet (Karoo Lamb).
See that is what makes a classic, not the pretend to do it all .308.

(the 6x45 has a following because the .243 is too fast for small game bushveld hunting, but thats another story)

Seems as if the 6 ARC in a nice little bolt gun and loaded with 70 to 85 gn bullets would suit you very well shark.

 

[RayAtkinson]

Ive seen the "classic" .243 fail not a few times but many times, also according to win. its blown up more rifles than any other caliber, seems something about when the throat gets shot out the use of heavy or light bullets creates this effect...Never had one blow up but this was common knowledge sometime back...

I would much rather have the 250 Savage, or 257 Robts. and do..The 243 all but put those two grand cartridges out of business to-wit I will never forgive the public who drank the koolaide of a million dollar advertising campaign that and lay claim to 3000 to 3200 FPS, then a year or two later silently dropped all ammo back to 2800 FPS.

Im no fan of the 243, but then to each his own and Im opinionated..

 

[ZG47]

@RayAtkinson The combination of the shallow case shoulder angle and the short case neck in the 243 cartridge case allows combustion gases to hit the rifling in the leade (THE THROAT IS an internal parallel section WITHOUT RIFLING) at an angle, instead of moving parallel to the rifling axis, as is the case with the various 6.5mm military cartridges introduced in the late nineteenth century. If you look at the dimensions of the .250 Savage, it is, essentially, a truncated 6.5x55 SE cartridge; with a slightly skinner bullet and a smaller rim.
The combination of shallow shoulder and very short case neck (for a full power 6mm cartridge) is why the rifling in that area erodes so quickly and the metal roughens up so quickly. This is a classic example of production expediency over riding common sense, especially given the early factory overloading of the cartridge (both the .243 Winchester and the 7mm Remington Magnum were downloaded after piezoelectric pressure testing was introduced for small arm ammo testing in the mid 1960s.
Problem was ... Cartridges of the World (and possibly others) kept publishing the original factory load velocities and hand load data to match those velocities.
Dave Emary, Hornady Ballistician has repeatedly advised that: the roughening of the leade becomes a significant safety issue when heavy bullets, i.e. 100 grains and up, are used in high pressure loads and shot through affected barrels.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Ive seen the "classic" .243 fail not a few times but many times, also according to win. its blown up more rifles than any other caliber, seems something about when the throat gets shot out the use of heavy or light bullets creates this effect...Never had one blow up but this was common knowledge sometime back...

I would much rather have the 250 Savage, or 257 Robts. and do..The 243 all but put those two grand cartridges out of business to-wit I will never forgive the public who drank the koolaide of a million dollar advertising campaign that and lay claim to 3000 to 3200 FPS, then a year or two later silently dropped all ammo back to 2800 FPS.

Im no fan of the 243, but then to each his own and Im opinionated..

@RayAtkinson
My gunsmith has seen the same blow ups in 243. One was a nice Tikka t3lite. It was not pretty.
Ray you have joined the elite 25 club that wasn't duped but winchesters bullshit advertising. I've seen a few 243s that were loaded to the max load with 87grain bullets struggling to get 2,900fps chronoed from a 22inch barrel.
My own 25/303 Epps Newton improved will give 3,370 fps chronoed with the 115grain nosler combined technology silver tip and 0.8 inch groups at 200yards. Let's see a 243 match that. It ain't going to happen. Even a properly loaded 250 savage is capable of giving the 243 a flogging.
I can hear the howls of horror now form the 243 lovers but as you said to each their own.
Bob

 

[Ragman]

I remember as a kid in the 70s and 80s those same four calibers being the go to for nearly everyone around home. The .303 would be a close fifth. The .308 happened to be what my Dad had and so after 3 seasons using a .30-30 I got a .308 too. Then when I was 21 I worked with a guy who had a 7mm RM and he convinced me that I was way undergunned with my “little” .308! So I traded in my gun that killed everything I shot with it and got a 7mm. I hunted exclusively with it for 5 years and loved it, but then with age comes wisdom and I realized that I was talked into fixing what wasn’t broke. So I bought another .308 and haven’t (and never will again) look back. I have had and still do have other calibers and enjoyed them all but I’ll stick with what my Dad knew all along.
Now I’m not a reloader and ballistic charts bore me to tears so I can’t quote fps or ft pounds or ballistic coeffients, but.....I have become and oldish man (51) and have hunted since the age of 12 and tagged along with my father since I was 4 and have shot and seen many critters shot with a .308 ranging from yearling whitetails up to very large moose. My knowledge of ballistics is strictly field experience. It is deadly. I read somewhere in this thread that the .308 is good for animals up to 200 pounds. That’s ridiculous.
In my hunting life I have killed Springbok to moose sized animals with .243, .30-30, .270, .308, .30-06, 7mm RM, .300 WM and .50 cal muzzleloader. The reactions of all those animals with those different cartridges was EXACTLY the same. Either drop on the spot or run for a short distance and quickly expire. Except of course for the occasions that I didn’t do my part. My honest opinion is that there is no “best” cartridge for non-dangerous game...just favourite ones. The .308 just happens to be mine. Everybody else’s favourite caliber is the right answer too.

 

[shark_za]

So the .308's is so non classic its offspring also bring it down.
I rest my case.

For the record I think the .25-06 is the first choice for Springbok and Blesbok in the Karoo. (zero availability of the other .25's here)
I'd kill for an accurate Ruger No.1 in .25-06, this would be my ideal voorsit rifle.

I also rate the .308/180gr as a fine bushveld combo, effectiveness is not at question here, but it is not a classic.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

So the .308's is so non classic its offspring also bring it down.
I rest my case.

For the record I think the .25-06 is the first choice for Springbok and Blesbok in the Karoo. (zero availability of the other .25's here)
I'd kill for an accurate Ruger No.1 in .25-06, this would be my ideal voorsit rifle.

I also rate the .308/180gr as a fine bushveld combo, effectiveness is not at question here, but it is not a classic.

@shark_za
If you can get hold of one get a handi-rifle in 25/06 everything I heard about the is that they are unbelievably accurate.
Bob

 

[MS 9x56]

Used a 308 win as my primary rifle for a lot of years, never had a problem dropping anything I shot with it. My old 308 hunting rifle was retired a couple of years ago, she was flat wore out, and have since gone to a 300 win mag and a 9.3x62 combo. Have a Merkel RX Helix with these two caliber barrels and very happy with the setup. Miss my old 308 win though and looking for a third barrel in that classic caliber for the Merkel. Really like the 308 win over 22’s for practicing at the range as it’s a true hunting round so feels like a rifle in the field does when shot, performs pretty close to the win mag and 9.3 at 200-250 yards, is more affordable to shoot than the other two, and find transitioning to the others from the 308 pretty seamless. Another plus, it’s hard to beat a 308 win for white tail in the Texas Hill Country.

So send it to JES and have it bored out to 358 winchester. Best of both worlds. Gotta warn you though, it may mean decreased usage for your 300 and 9.3. I love my 9.3 but that BLR in 358 is just so handy and easy to shoot.

 

[ZG47]

You could also load up to full pressure if your old .308 is a bolt-action and that kind of thing rings your bell. Full pressure .358 Winchester loads will beat full pressure.338 Federal loads BUT factory leadings are a bit light, probably due to extraction issues in the original BLR rifles. A gunsmith friend of mine, Din Collings (RIP several years ago) had to remove the barrel on a customer’s brand new BLR in .308 because the breech-bolt mechanism broke during an attempt to extract a fired case. The rifle was repaired and I suspect that Din advised the customer on safe reloading practice!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

So send it to JES and have it bored out to 358 winchester. Best of both worlds. Gotta warn you though, it may mean decreased usage for your 300 and 9.3. I love my 9.3 but that BLR in 358 is just so handy and easy to shoot.

@MS 9x56
You could do the 338 federal as well.
Bob

 

[Fastrig]

So send it to JES and have it bored out to 358 winchester. Best of both worlds. Gotta warn you though, it may mean decreased usage for your 300 and 9.3. I love my 9.3 but that BLR in 358 is just so handy and easy to shoot.

That old gun isn't worth the investment...she wasn't an expensive rifle or anything like that. Have also picked up an AR10 in a 338 Federal that's going to be used for hogs, maybe bears too. Getting a 308 barrel for my Merkel, it's just a great caliber and will be my go to for practicing at the range and hunting white tail. 300 win mag for elk or longer range hunts, the 9.3x62 for Alaska and Africa hunts. With those three barrels for the Merkel and the 338 Fed AR10, I've pretty much got all the hunting I do covered. Still want an R8 though and looking for the excuse to give my wife on why I "need" one