The Difference Between An Agreeable & A Difficult Client From A Professional Hunter Perspective...

[Nhoro]

When did all this happen? More to the point, how did it / does it work for a SA PH to hunt in Zim? I notice you mentioned "black Zim PH ... Mr. X’s PH and myself." Is the PH "in charge" technically the Zim PH? Are you legally considered as just coming along? Etc. etc.

Reason I ask is I am considering a tuskless cow elephant in Zim...

.


The law in Zimbabwe is that the person conducting the hunt must be a licensed PH in Zimbabwe. This requires that he/ she is a Zimbabwe resident and has passed PH licence and is currently licensed. South African/ Tanzanian qualifications do not count. Also be aware that PAC (problem animal control) permits are not for foreign clients. You should only hunt in terms of a hunting permit paying the trophy fee, even if the animal is a crop raider. PAC permits are for citizens only and not paid for. Unfortunately dodgy things happen but you wouldn’t want to end up on the wrong side of zim law

 

[One Day...]

The law in Zimbabwe is that the person conducting the hunt must be a licensed PH in Zimbabwe. This requires that he/ she is a Zimbabwe resident and has passed PH licence and is currently licensed. South African/ Tanzanian qualifications do not count. Also be aware that PAC (problem animal control) permits are not for foreign clients. You should only hunt in terms of a hunting permit paying the trophy fee, even if the animal is a crop raider. PAC permits are for citizens only and not paid for. Unfortunately dodgy things happen but you wouldn’t want to end up on the wrong side of zim law

+1

This is exactly why I was asking the question, Nhoro, I was under the impression that a SA PH could not legally conduct hunts in Zimbabwe, but this story created a doubt in my mind. Thank you for clarifying things.

Can a SA PH guide in Zim if he is acting as "second PH" to a Zim PH? Or maybe regulations were more relaxed a decade or two ago? Or maybe IvW is a Zim citizen living in RSA and he is licensed in several countries? Or maybe he was a Zim resident at the time and he is licensed in Zim? I asked him one time in which country(ies) he is licensed and for which outfitter(s) he is guiding but he did not answer.

As to the tuskless cow, yes I am aware. This will be a trophy fee hunt, with a Zim outfitter and guided by a Zim PH. Details still to be worked out as I have not yet committed and written a check

 

[Nhoro]

+1

This is exactly why I was asking the question, Nhoro, I was under the impression that a SA PH could not legally conduct hunts in Zimbabwe, but this story created a doubt in my mind. Thank you for clarifying things.

Can a SA PH guide in Zim if he is acting as "second PH" to a Zim PH? Or maybe regulations were more relaxed a decade or two ago? Or maybe IvW is a Zim citizen living in RSA and he is licensed in several countries? Or maybe he was a Zim resident at the time and he is licensed in Zim? I asked him one time in which country(ies) he is licensed and for which outfitter(s) he is guiding but he did not answer.

As to the tuskless cow, yes I am aware. This will be a trophy fee hunt, with a Zim outfitter and guided by a Zim PH. Details still to be worked out as I have not yet committed and written a check

better to stay the right side of the law in Africa

 

[BRICKBURN]

...... or, if you can imagine, a (Rhodesian) Zimbabwe citizen who might have emigrated to South Africa.

 

[mark-hunter]

The professional hunters are most often White Zimbabwean, but there are also South-African, white Zambian and occasionally European ones as well.

This is from thread hunting infor by country, a qoute for Zimbabwe PH's.
There is also good number of sponsors from South Africa, advertising hunts in ZIM.

So, the question is in reality how does it work? Who today is licensed PH in Zim?
Is there a public list of licensed Zim PH?
I found one list by google search, but dated 2012.

 

[Nhoro]

You can have a foreign passport but must be resident in Zim. So if

+1

This is exactly why I was asking the question, Nhoro, I was under the impression that a SA PH could not legally conduct hunts in Zimbabwe, but this story created a doubt in my mind. Thank you for clarifying things.

Can a SA PH guide in Zim if he is acting as "second PH" to a Zim PH? Or maybe regulations were more relaxed a decade or two ago? Or maybe IvW is a Zim citizen living in RSA and he is licensed in several countries? Or maybe he was a Zim resident at the time and he is licensed in Zim? I asked him one time in which country(ies) he is licensed and for which outfitter(s) he is guiding but he did not answer.

As to the tuskless cow, yes I am aware. This will be a trophy fee hunt, with a Zim outfitter

+1

This is exactly why I was asking the question, Nhoro, I was under the impression that a SA PH could not legally conduct hunts in Zimbabwe, but this story created a doubt in my mind. Thank you for clarifying things.

Can a SA PH guide in Zim if he is acting as "second PH" to a Zim PH? Or maybe regulations were more relaxed a decade or two ago? Or maybe IvW is a Zim citizen living in RSA and he is licensed in several countries? Or maybe he was a Zim resident at the time and he is licensed in Zim? I asked him one time in which country(ies) he is licensed and for which outfitter(s) he is guiding but he did not answer.

As to the tuskless cow, yes I am aware. This will be a trophy fee hunt, with a Zim outfitter and guided by a Zim PH. Details still to be worked out as I have not yet committed and written a check

please understand I am not saying that IVW did anything wrong at all, I was just giving you the legal position in Zim. Some clients may bring another PH as an observer and they may even carry a rifle and may even actually conduct the hunt. Do they get away with it- probably. If something goes wrong and you have to shoot an animal- I wouldn’t like to take the chance. The current regulations have been in force for at least 20 years ( when I wrote my exams)

 

[Nhoro]

This is from thread hunting infor by country, a qoute for Zimbabwe PH's.
There is also good number of sponsors from South Africa, advertising hunts in ZIM.

So, the question is in reality how does it work? Who today is licensed PH in Zim?
Is there a public list of licensed Zim PH?
I found one list by google search, but dated 2012.

Yes there are a number of SA operators working in conjunction with Zim operators. I would check that they do follow the law and use a Zim licence PH. They will usually have an agreement with a Zim operator to do those hunts but I have seen hunting reports on this website giving evidence that foreign PH’s illegally conducted hunts. I also saw a hunting report where a problem animal was paid for and shot in a communal area. The hunters did not know they had broken the law, they thought they had a cheap ‘roughing it ‘hunt and had helped the community.

Zimbabwe Professional hunters association produces a list of members who are confirmed licence holders so I would start at their website. I do not know of any definitive list of licence holders unfortunately.

 

[BRICKBURN]

This is from thread hunting infor by country, a qoute for Zimbabwe PH's.
There is also good number of sponsors from South Africa, advertising hunts in ZIM.
So, the question is in reality how does it work? Who today is licensed PH in Zim?
Is there a public list of licensed Zim PH?
I found one list by google search, but dated 2012.

The answer to your question from another thread on AH. referenced below.

https://www.africahunting.com/threa...l-hunters-and-guides-association-zphga.39003/


References the contact information for the ZPHGA
Contact them and ask for a current list.

https://ophaa.org/member-associations/zimbabwe-professional-hunters-and-guides-association/

 

[mark-hunter]

Brickburn
Many thanks!

 

[flatwater bill]

Having re-read this thread I must say that I didn't fully understand how distasteful and disagreeable a lot we hunters can be for African PH's. I personally will try to do better. Thanks for the post. I will try not to be Mr X!....................FWB

 

[Newboomer]

Great story and a wonderful read. Well presented with just the right amount of cliff hanging drama!!! Please post additional experiences as this one was great!!!.

Most of us are good at what we do. How else would we afford such an expensive addiction. Many of us may even be Professionals, as in Doctors, Architects, Electricians, Plumbers or Masters of Business and Trade, etc. (I am a Licensed Professional Engineer). Many may be, in fact, experts in our field. The most intelligent of us know what we know, but more importantly, we know what we do not know. That is why we hunt with a Professional Hunter. Anyone who ignores or marginalizes the advice given by your PH is, indeed, a fool - because they do not know what they do not know. I am thankful for the advice, guidance and opinions expressed by my PH. Their help, advice and assistance has led to wonderful experiences, truly unforgettable memories and a lot of trophies, which may not have been the biggest animal in the area but they were the ones I shot on a great trip with great friends. Hats off to ALL PHs and their crews. Thank you and may God Bless.

Ed

I took a shooting course some years ago and one thing the instructor said has stuck with me: "Most people don't know what they don't know." I thought of that when I read IvW's story. Mr. X didn't know what he didn't know.

 

[Rick Cox]

Do you mean, like this one Graham Hunter and LivingTheDream?

Magnum TV S4:E3- Cape Buffalo Showdown

The hunt starts at 13:00 minutes ... and culminates after 17:00 minutes...

A very patient buff, and obedient too, he even stays when the hunter says "no" (don't leave).

There are also some interesting bits at 2:56 about asking what the PH wants his client to shoot; at 3:20 "I have had a lot of experience and shot a lot of buffalo" and at 14:50 when he reloads. The rifle appears to be a Win 70, so if he started with 3+1, fired 2 (maybe more the footage does not show), reloaded 3+1, reloaded 1, it looks like it took at least 7 shots to drop the buff.

Isn't this guy who REALLY believes in Sasquatch's?

 

[Mike Van Horn]

The difference could be, between a good PH and a difficult one
Not all PH's are good and typically the bad ones have a big mouth and a ego to go with it

 

[Graham Hunter]

I want to take a life insurance policy on him.

Isn't this guy who REALLY believes in Sasquatch's?

 

[Uncle Sauce]

Great reading @IvW - great story!

 

[BRICKBURN]

I want to take a life insurance policy on him.

Out of luck. No one would underwrite it.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

awesome story telling! You need to post another.
I have had the unfortunate displeasure of crossing path with "outdoor personalities" 3 times. And I can say all 3 were equal to your nightmare Mr.X.
The first had a last name that started with "Z" and wrote for a well know magazine. He was a pure nasty chain smoking arse. But he could hunt and shoot at least the canned trophy moose that was saved and monitored and watched for a week for him to come and kill.
the other 2 were nice but worthless hunters that couldn't hit shit. One a self proclaimed long range hunter missed at 200yds and locked the bolt on his rifle with too hot a handload and was done for the day. took him 7 shots to kill the next day but the film only showed 1 hit. The 3rd bozo turned a poor sheep into hamburger with his utterly horrible shooting. Moral of the story the TV hero's are nothing but bozo's!

Buckdog
The saying goes the man with one gun probably knows how to use it.
Likewise beware of the man with the big mouth he probably knows how to use it. If you can't walk the walk then don't talk the talk. Always listen to your PH. I did an learnt a lot and had a great hunt.
Cheers mate
Bob

 

[Av8or]

Great story. We call people like Mr X, “ mr . Bigger, better , faster”
They know everything , and always have something a better. Worst kind to be in camp with, has to be even worse as a PH.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

This had happened in seconds and although from the initial reaction from the buffalo I knew a charge was imminent, I held my fire. We had discussed shot placement and I was confident my client would take the shot as explained around the campfire, forget about the brain, place the shot below the raised nose in the neck aiming center mass to destroy the neck vertebrae as this gives a lot of room for error up and down but very little left and right but was the best option to stop the buff…

I had had my 500 Jeff off safety and in my shoulder from the time we came out so close to him…when he started his charge which was slightly uphill from our location, I had mentally drawn a line at the start of the stream on his side, which was less than 15 feet from us…if he reached that without my client shooting I would have no option but to shoot and end it.

As he reached that imaginary line I started squeezing the trigger at which point my clients shot rang out, which hit the buffalo exactly where I had explained causing his head to drop and my shot hit the buff in the neck also shattering the vertebrae between the boss and shoulder. The clients shot instantly killed the buffalo but the pressure on the trigger of my rifle was beyond the point of no return.

The momentum caused the buffalo to crash down in the stream almost at our feet. What a hunt and what an experience!!!! My client was over joyed and what an ancient buffalo this was. Not much spread left to talk about, boss and horns long ago worn down, with a gap in between, old and more fresh lion attack scars on his body, almost no hair on his face and much of it gone from his body….the last remaining survivor off his Dagga boy brotherhood…my client was truly grateful and in ecstasy not only with this old warrior but with the whole experience….a great hunt overall and a great client.

@IvW
we didn't hunt DG but my PH was very pleased to hunt with my not quite 15 year old son. He would ask the PH the best place to shoot the animals and that's where the bullet went. Before we hunted my son had spent a lot of time on sticks and different field positions to the point it was instinctive. Our PH gave me a great compliment when he said my son was a joy to hunt with as he listened to instructions and was such a natural shot. He wished some of his older clients were more like him. Great for a dad to hear .
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@IvW Thank you for sharing your experience, you are a gifted writer and like many here you write a book I will but it.

I have helped put together many trips over the years for hunting, fishing, travel motorcycle rides and have always working on making sure the group dynamics are good and that everyone is humble and cooperative and supportive of everyone else. That started on a motorcycle ride years ago where I got invited along to replace someone who had dropped out at the last minute and there was a Mr X as the group leader by day 3 no one was talking to each other and there was still 7 more days to go. Well that morning I let the group leave and I took the map and did a alternate route that got to the lodgings for the day. the next day 2 of the group went with me and they have become life long friends and I never spoke with Mr X again. There are knucklehead know it all's in every walk of life!!!

IvW I salute you on your professionalism and would love to share a camp fire with you any day.

@AZDAVE
Forrest Gump said life is like a box of chocolates.
I think life is like a bed of roses but you've got to watch out for the pricks.
Bob