The Battery of an Old School Professional Elephant Hunter

[CTDolan]

By the way, I meant to say Hornady DGX (the DGS obviously has a steel jacket!).

 

[Hoss Delgado]

There's really no need to bond a bullet as large as that used in the .577 NE. Nevertheless, the Woodleigh Weldcore is bonded (hence the name Weldcore).

If only British fun makers made their guns capable of firing Monolithic solids

 

[CTDolan]

It needs to be taken on a case-by-case basis. Some mono-metal solids are easier on barrels than others (different materials, less bearing surface, more relief bands, etc.) and some of the old doubles can handle any (none of the newer ones will ruin a barrel like the A-Square bullets appear to have).

 

[CTDolan]

And, of course, when it comes to doubles there's always the matter of regulation. In this regard, when it comes to old doubles, Woodleigh's jacketed bullets (solid and soft) are usually best as they adhere to the original Kynoch in form.

 

[fourfive8]

Here's a link to one of Don Heath's articles (2009) about calibers/bullets. Note the pictures of the bent and failed "solids".
https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/ri242partial.pdf

 

[CTDolan]

Thank you for the link!

 

[Hoss Delgado]

And, of course, when it comes to doubles there's always the matter of regulation. In this regard, when it comes to old doubles, Woodleigh's jacketed bullets (solid and soft) are usually best as they adhere to the original Kynoch in form.

Problem is The Woodleigh FMJ solids loaded by Norma are relatively low Velocity. Look at Norma's .505 Gibbs Magnum 600 grain FMJ Round nosed bullets. Only a velocity of 2100 fps. Such a waste of potential !

 

[7x57Joe]

Here's a link to one of Don Heath's articles (2009) about calibers/bullets. Note the pictures of the bent and failed "solids".
https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/ri242partial.pdf

Thanks for the link as I always liked Ganyana's articals.

 

[BeeMaa]

Here's a link to one of Don Heath's articles (2009) about calibers/bullets. Note the pictures of the bent and failed "solids".
https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/ri242partial.pdf

Written 10 years ago and just as relevant today.
375 and the 416 calibers are as versatile today as they were when H&H and Rigby brought them out.

 

[CAustin]

Thanks for sharing this. I find it very interesting that the gentleman answered you!

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Thanks for sharing this. I find it very interesting that the gentleman answered you!

I have correspondence with other retired hunters as well

 

[juan pablo pozzi]

View attachment 304589 View attachment 304590I had the good fortune to exchange correspondence with one of my favorite living hunters , Terry Irwin. Terry shot hundreds of Elephant back in the day and l was most curious about his choices. I read his book many years ago , but lost it when we shifted from Maine to Texas . I recently acquired his email address and dropped him a fan letter . He was kind enough to reply. So , Terry Owned a .458 Winchester Magnum Mannlicher Shoenauer rotary Magazine rifle , a very rare model made only from 1958 to 1960 ( funnily enough , another Favorite Hunter of mine , Richard Harland was also issued this same model of gun during his Elephant Culling duties ) . I wanted to ask Terry the following questions :
1) How many shots on average , would it take with a .458 Winchester Magnum to drop a bull Elephant ?
2) Did he own any rifles of larger caliber than the .458 Winchester Magnum ?
3) What was his total battery ?
Terry's reply was interesting and short , yet precise.
He seems to have no problems scoring one shot kills on Elephant with his .458 WINCHESTER MAGNUM .
His largest caliber was a .458 WINCHESTER MAGNUM . While he also used the Department Issue .404 Jeffery Mauser , a .303 Lee Enfield and Double barrelled rifles of Nitro Express Caliber , the largest he owned was that .458 Winchester Magnum Mannlicher Shoenauer rotary Magazine rifle . I find his killing of an elephant with a .22 Hornet mind boggling . That's a tiny bullet ! Probably the smallest documented caliber used on an African Elephant ( I do know that a few Indian Rogue Elephants near Shiliguri used to be dispatched with the .22 Winchester Rimfire Magnum full metal jacket bullet through the exposed ear hole , but the Animals were tranquilized first . )
His battery was in total :

One .458 Winchester Magnum Mannlicher Shoenauer rotary Magazine rifle
One .375 HH Magnum Winchester Model 70
One. 30-06 Winchester Model 70
One .270 WINCHESTER MODEL 70
One 12 gauge Aya Double barrel 3 inch chambered shotgun with two sets of barrels ( one of which were cylinder bore for leopard ).
Terry's choices , to me , reflect the era when Kynoch had just discontinued their line of centre fire Cartridges. Barring the .375 HH Magnum , they were all American Calibers.
I find his experiences with the .458 Winchester Magnum interesting. It's not a caliber many of us like today ( myself included ) . But he appears to have had no problems. The reason ( according to Terry ) is that , from a 26 inch barrel as Steyr Mannlicher made for him in his custom. 458 Winchester Magnum , the correct Velocity can be acquired. How interesting !
I find it ever more mind boggling that Terry would use your ordinary run of the mill Hornady Ammunition ( 500 gr FMJ Meplats ). I personally have not had good experience with this brand in my .375 HH Magnum Winchester Model 70 . Contrast this with Mr. Richard Harland who used to load his issued .458 Winchester Magnum with 450 grain Monometal solids.
I wish l would ask Terry more about whether he would use his shotgun on leopard , with slugs or buckshot . But l guess it missed my questioning.
Would Terry's battery be a solid choice today ?
Well .... Hell yeah.
I would totally take a shotgun , a .270 , a .30-06 and a .375 HH Magnum to Africa I would replace the .458 Winchester Magnum with with a .505 Gibbs Magnum by Kilimanjaro rifles though , loaded with 525 grain Cutting Edge Monolithic meplat brass Solids . But that's just me.
It IS interesting however to note that Terry mentions the .458 Lott , saying that he would use it if it was there during his time. That leads me to believe that he MAY have opted for a .458 Lott over the .458 Winchester Magnum if he had one.
It's fascinating how he picks a flaw with the floor plate design in most Rifles . Apparently , due to shooting so many rounds , he used to experience Magazine floor plates popping open with almost every rifle he owned ( including a rebarrelled .458 Winchester Magnum Westley Richards Mauser ) before he got the Mannlicher. I sadly experienced this Same problem on a .460 Weatherby Mark V on a feral hog hunt many years ago.
I hope anyone here might find this of interest. I also have a nice email from Mark Sullivan somewhere in my computer and also from the sadly deceased Ian Gibson about their respective batteries.
PS : Barring what he wrote in his email , l tried to fill in the gaps from my memory of reading his memoir .

Very interesting thank you for sharing

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I knew him quite well and miss him dearly.

He sold his .375 Holland & Holland Magnum Winchester Model 70 to buy his first .458 Winchester Magnum (a Westley Richards Mauser). He sold that in 1964, in order to buy his .458 Winchester Magnum Mannlicher Schoenauer (which he used until he retired from hunting and sold it in 1993).

He sold his .270 Winchester (a Remington Model 700) in order to buy his .30-06 Springfield (another Remington Model 700).

From 1964 until his retirement in 1993, he exclusively hunted with three firearms:
-A .458 Winchester Magnum Mannlicher Schoenauer
- A .30-06 Springfield Remington Model 700
- A 12 gauge 3" Magnum AYA Grade I sidelock ejector single selective trigger side by side with two sets of barrels (32" fully choked and 24" cylinder bored)

He hand loaded his .458 Winchester Magnum and .30-06 Springfield rifles with Hornady bullets (brought to him by clients). For leopard follow up, he hand loaded high brass shotgun shells with 9 pellets of Winchester copper plated 00 Buck (an entire bag of which was gifted to him by an American client). He killed five charging leopards with that shotgun.

When he was using a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum, he was using Kynoch ammunition in it. When he was using a .270 Winchester, he was using 150Gr Remington Core Lokts in it.

After Tanzania gained independence in 1961, no ammunition would be imported into the country until many years later (long after Terry ceased operating in Tanzania in 1973). So he would have his clients bring him reloading components.

He shot his last elephant in 1969 and his last lion in 1987.

He passed away this January... eight days after we last spoke.

 

[PCC600]

Problem is The Woodleigh FMJ solids loaded by Norma are relatively low Velocity. Look at Norma's .505 Gibbs Magnum 600 grain FMJ Round nosed bullets. Only a velocity of 2100 fps. Such a waste of potential !

I disagree the 600grain pills at 2100 fps are very similar in performance to the great 500NE which shoot 570grain bullets at a nominal 2100-2150 fps ( in reality 2050 fps through 24 inch barrels ). My experience is 2100 fps is plenty .

 

[PCC600]

It needs to be taken on a case-by-case basis. Some mono-metal solids are easier on barrels than others (different materials, less bearing surface, more relief bands, etc.) and some of the old doubles can handle any (none of the newer ones will ruin a barrel like the A-Square bullets appear to have).

My understanding is that A-square ruined many good rifles because of a confusion over land vs groove bore measurements .