the 500 yard ethical hunting challenge, Erik Cortina YT video

[sgt_zim]

 

[BlueFlyer]

Great video, that is a good reality check.

 

[roklok]

Good video, but I take exception to needing MOA accuracy at 500 yards for big game hunting. A deer's vitals are much larger than 5 inches, not to mention larger game. Can never have too much accuracy, but I have shot at two dall rams and killed two dall rams, one at a bit over 500 and the other just under 500. That was with my 6 pound ultralight .280 AI. I also killed my last moose at 400 yards with my .35 Whelen. I can guarantee that I could not hold MOA accuracy at 500 yards with either rifle, but I do not feel like the shots were unethical. I like backfire's challenge more, think it was a bit more realistic but even his challenge I felt that he should put two milk jugs side by side, that would better replicate the vitals of a broadside presentation.

 

[WAB]

Excellent video. I’ve been doing a bunch of cold bore shots at 600 from different field Positions in prep for a Coues hunt. If you’re
not working at these distances, there is no way you have any idea of your ability to make a one shot kill in the field. My key learning is that my effective range is heavily influenced by wind conditions.

 

[Tra3]

Cool video. While I am fascinated by the science that goes into long range rifles and shooting, this type of test reaffirms my practice of not shooting game at long range.
I’d love to see that test done where each shooter gets to move up to 400 and try again. I find a big difference between those distances.

 

[sgt_zim]

Good video, but I take exception to needing MOA accuracy at 500 yards for big game hunting. A deer's vitals are much larger than 5 inches, not to mention larger game. Can never have too much accuracy, but I have shot at two dall rams and killed two dall rams, one at a bit over 500 and the other just under 500. That was with my 6 pound ultralight .280 AI. I also killed my last moose at 400 yards with my .35 Whelen. I can guarantee that I could not hold MOA accuracy at 500 yards with either rifle, but I do not feel like the shots were unethical. I like backfire's challenge more, think it was a bit more realistic but even his challenge I felt that he should put two milk jugs side by side, that would better replicate the vitals of a broadside presentation.

You're missing the point. These dudes were all good shooters with mostly 1st rate gear, and they were no better than about 1.25 to 1.5 MOA. They were proned out on shooting rolls, got to take their time, and set up their shots. Those aren't hunting guns, and they weren't shooting in hunting conditions.

For some guys, that's an ethical shot, and 5 of those guys would have gotten clean kills on their cold bore shots. But most hunters aren't those guys, and most hunting rifles aren't those target rifles.

If a shooter is ordinarily a 1 MOA shooter from 100 at the bench, and game slippage sends him to 2 MOA in the field, that shot group has opened up to ~10.5 inches at 500 yards. Assuming elevation is good, that's either a clean miss or potentially a gut shot.

 

[jomw10]

I'm not shooting at a deer at 500 yards, but again I don't think your target needs to be 1MOA.

In order to get an idea of the accuracy of your rifle/shooter combo you need to run more than 3/5 shooting groups at 100 yards. The reality is that shooting is not exempt from normal distribution (bell curve). Doing larger groups (20 or 30) will really tell you where the majority of your bullets are going to hit on the target at that give distance.

 

[SaintPanzer]

Curiously, that steel target also did not move at any time...especially the time between pulling the trigger and impact.

Get closer.

 

[pilar]

I was a pronghorn and nilgai guide in my 1st life and 400 - 500 yards is a very iffy shot even for a skilled shooter, wind , barometric pressure, ambient air temperature, Coriolis force. Will seriously mess up the shot, average brain can’t even calculate a double cross wind and Coriolis effect , @ 1/4 - 1/2 mile ( 400 - 800 yards) + deviation in bullet speed! Even with the best rifle and scope combo ! Add something with two eyes moving or standing in terrain that is hard to judge stuff
IMO hunt as close as possible 300-350 max

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@sgt_zim
And that's with high end precision long rang gear.
Let's see how they go with the average hunting rifle. Would be interesting to say the least.
I know my 25 will group a lot less than moa at 300 and I can comfortably shoot out to 400 with it but 500 would be asking a bit to much from this old fella. Probably result in a dead deer but I will never know. I don't intend to shoot that fer
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Excellent video. I’ve been doing a bunch of cold bore shots at 600 from different field Positions in prep for a Coues hunt. If you’re
not working at these distances, there is no way you have any idea of your ability to make a one shot kill in the field. My key learning is that my effective range is heavily influenced by wind conditions.

@WAB
A rifle that can't put the first bullet from a cold clean bore on the target where it needs to be you either need a new rifle, new load or new shooter.
It's the 1st shot that counts. You can't wait around for fouling shots and a warm barrel to hunt with .
I applaud you practice with a cold bore.
Before I go hunting I fire a one shot group, usually a clay target at 200 or 300 yards and that round better be on the money. Fortunately my rifles don't care whether they are clean, dirty, cold or hot. All shots are on or its back to the drawing board to find out why.
Guess what?
If it's not on I wait a few days and try again. The problem in my case is usually ME the shooter.
Bob

 

[BigSteve57]

The problem with these kinds of shots and point of impact is wind, IMHO.
For example, the last phase of service rifle competition is prone at 600 yds. on a MR-1 target whose X and 10 ring are 6 and 12 in. which correspond to 1 and 2 MOA, respectively.

You're also using a coat and a sling laying rock solid; as good as a bench rest. Where I have shot 600 yds there are wind socks at 100, 300 and 500 yds down range. You also get 2 sighting shots before scoring. Even with that it's still difficult. I've hit well within the 10 ring shot after shot and then a 7.
WTH?

The point(s) please:

• It can take a very small amount of sudden wind to throw you off, less so with a heavier bullet like a .308. In contrast, I've seen my little 5.56 bullet getting blown all over the place.
• You had better be very sure of your shooting ability which is in your control and the wind which isn't in your control.

 

[WAB]

The problem with these kinds of shots and point of impact is wind, IMHO.
For example, the last phase of service rifle competition is prone at 600 yds. on a MR-1 target whose X and 10 ring are 6 and 12 in. which correspond to 1 and 2 MOA, respectively.

You're also using a coat and a sling laying rock solid; as good as a bench rest. Where I have shot 600 yds there are wind socks at 100, 300 and 500 yds down range. You also get 2 sighting shots before scoring. Even with that it's still difficult. I've hit well within the 10 ring shot after shot and then a 7.
WTH?

The point(s) please:

• It can take a very small amount of sudden wind to throw you off, less so with a heavier bullet like a .308. In contrast, I've seen my little 5.56 bullet getting blown all over the place.
• You had better be very sure of your shooting ability which is in your control and the wind which isn't in your control.

Totally agree. I’m launching a 6.5 mm, 142 gr ABLR at 2,900 fps. With no wind I can easily put three bullets in 4” on the bull at 600 (prone w bipod and pack for rear rest). Introduce a steady 5-10 mph wind and I may do it if I dope it correctly. Introduce a variable wind and holy crap life gets interesting! A bullet can easily be blown 6 to 8” off target by a relatively mild unidentified gust. And this from a setup that should buck the wind as well as most!

Now take this to a cross canyon shot where you are trying to dope the wind with no mid flight wind indicators!

 

[Puddle]

Interesting that in the first video (I didn't watch the second video) the question wasn't asked of the shooters "how many rounds down range and how often?" I'd also be curious if the shooters are mostly gravel bellies or true in-the-field practice shooters.