The 350gr Hornaday RN .458 bullet in the Marlin .45-70

[F. Vaccaro]

Anyone have experience on game using this bullet? I had heard it was developed for a lighter bullet in the .458 Win Mag. If this is true, it might be a good, tough, bullet that really penetrates in the .45-70. Most of our Elk country is also grizzly country, so using a bullet for the most dangerous animal makes sense.
Thanks.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I could be wrong on this as I only shoot the 500 grain 458WM and the shorter 45-70 bullets out of my 458WM. I only use the shorter 45-70 bullets in my 45-70.

To hopefully and correctly answer your question 45-70 bullets are shorter in length than the 458WM / 458 Lott bullets, although they are the same diameter bullets.

Without actually being able to measure the difference, if any, between the lengths these 2 bullets, I can only guess that the 458WM 350 grain bullets are longer than the 45-70 bullets. Since the 45-70 is a shorter brass than either the 458WM and 458 Lott, which safely staying within powder charge weight and SAAMI pressure limits of the 45-70, it's most likely the 458WM bullets will have slower velocities in the 45-70.

If the reloading powder charge for these bullets doesn't fall within the manufacturer's bullet performance velocities for these bullets, then the bullets will most likely fail to preform properly.

Having said all of that. If the bullet lengths are the same then there shouldn't be any problem in using the 458WM /458 Lott bullets in the 45-70 so long as the reloads are within SAAMI pressure specs and within the manufacturer's bullet performance velocities specs.

 

[Luvthunt]

I could be wrong on this as I only shoot the 500 grain 458WM and the shorter 45-70 bullets out of my 458WM. I only use the shorter 45-70 bullets in my 45-70.

To hopefully and correctly answer your question 45-70 bullets are shorter in length than the 458WM / 458 Lott bullets, although they are the same diameter bullets.

Without actually being able to measure the difference, if any, between the lengths these 2 bullets, I can only guess that the 458WM 350 grain bullets are longer than the 45-70 bullets. Since the 45-70 is a shorter brass than either the 458WM and 458 Lott, which safely staying within powder charge weight and SAAMI pressure limits of the 45-70, it's most likely the 458WM bullets will have slower velocities in the 45-70.

If the reloading powder charge for these bullets doesn't fall within the manufacturer's bullet performance velocities for these bullets, then the bullets will most likely fail to preform properly.

Having said all of that. If the bullet lengths are the same then there shouldn't be any problem in using the 458WM /458 Lott bullets in the 45-70 so long as the reloads are within SAAMI pressure specs and within the manufacturer's bullet performance velocities specs.

I am confused by this ie if both bullets are .458 cal and both weigh the same isn’t the length the same?

 

[Bandera]

I am confused by this ie if both bullets are .458 cal and both weigh the same isn’t the length the same?

Short answer is no, if the bullet profile is different. You can have round nose bullets, round nose flat point bullets, spitzer, conical and other designs.

 

[Bandera]

The consideration for the Marlin or any lever gun is the bullet profile. A round nose could set of a round that is in the tube with the recoil. A flat point would not. The Lever Evolution ammo has a softer polymer tip that will not cause the rounds in the magazine to go off.
A buddy of mine, we hunt together a lot, used his Marlin 45-70 to shoot a 500 pound hog. Used the Hornady Lever evolution ammo. One shot at about 40 yards dropped the hog in its tracks. Quartering away shot, the hog had it head down feeding, entered back of the rig cage and lodged in the spine at the neck. Dead hog but not great penetration.
Took the New Marlin SBL to Africa last year and shot several animals using the Barnes Pioneer 45-70 300 grain bullet. This bullet worked good on everything he shot. Zebra, Wildebeest, Hartebeest and other plains game.
The biggest problem with the lighter .458 bullets is the lack of sectional density which affects bullet penetration.
The issue with the modern 45-70’s is the barrel twist. The twist is good to about a 405 grain bullet. Even the Ruger No.1 does not like heavier bullets.

The Buffalo Bore 45-70 looks to be a good choice for dangerous critters.
I have a friend who owns a fishing boat in Alaska, he also loves to bear hunt. He uses the 300 RUM for bears and everything else.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

I am aware of bullet profile for lever actions. If it means anything, Hornaday in the 11th edition page 769, lists both a flat nose & the old round nose in the .45-70 1895 Marlin data. I think Hornaday would have researched their data?
still has anyone used this bullet on game, & what were the results?

 

[hoytcanon]

I have shot many bears and deer with the Hornady 350 RN in a .450 Marlin and my Ruger No.1-S .45/70, it is a great bullet at those speeds. I also download my .458 WM's with the same bullet using filler. Basically you get a dime size hole in and a quarter size hole out, with very little bloodshot meat, assuming you lung shoot through the ribs... it is a combo I recommend to my .458 bear clients... two used it this spring, with boringly predictable (and efficient) results.

 

[petander]

Anyone have experience on game using this bullet? I had heard it was developed for a lighter bullet in the .458 Win Mag. If this is true, it might be a good, tough, bullet that really penetrates in the .45-70. Most of our Elk country is also grizzly country, so using a bullet for the most dangerous animal makes sense.
Thanks.

Hornady 350 RN is a tougher bullet than the similar 350 FN. RN is made for 458 velocities and won't open up well from a 45-70. Unless very close.

I have used both for moose since the 90's, my Marlin load is (too) hot @ 2150 fps, still the FN does not open much past 100 meters. A calf @ 125 it penciled through. RN definitely won't open there. I have used my RN:s for practise. Vihtavuori N130.

FN works great @ moderate distances, a perfect mushroomed bullet is often at the other side hide. Speer 400 is good for moose lung shots,too. Softer.

Just cleaning my SBL for the moose hunt, we start this saturday. New battery for Aimpoint etc.

 

[Bandera]

Interesting, a battery powered Marlin, looks like the battery is easy to change.

 

[sgt_zim]

Nothing wrong with lead alloy, at least 405 gr, with a BNH in the neighborhood of about 21. Preferable are the ones with a wide, flat meplat. They only need to be ~1500 - 1600 at the muzzle to do what they do.

I've never shot anything but white tails with my Beartooth Bullets 425 gr, but I'd be perfectly comfortable in brown bear country with that load - I would probably use the BTB 525 gr instead of 425, but either one will do the trick. Unfortunately, BTB went out of business during the scamdemic.

 

[petander]

Nothing wrong with lead alloy, at least 405 gr, with a BNH in the neighborhood of about 21. Preferable are the ones with a wide, flat meplat. They only need to be ~1500 - 1600 at the muzzle to do what they do.

I've never shot anything but white tails with my Beartooth Bullets 425 gr, but I'd be perfectly comfortable in brown bear country with that load - I would probably use the BTB 525 gr instead of 425, but either one will do the trick. Unfortunately, BTB went out of business during the scamdemic.

I have been casting and shooting a 470 grain Robert Applegate WFN bullet for 25 years in 45-70 Marlins. Such a lovely slug.

But I have not hunted with them, here in Finland all cast bullets are considered solids = no big game hunting. No matter what BHN,go figure. An expanding bullet is required... as if a jacket helped with expansion

 

[sgt_zim]

Right to left

525 gr, 425 gr, 405 gr, 325 gr Hornady. SD on that 525 gr is .356

No idea why they decided to put a GC on those bullets.

@petander - how wide is the meplat on yours? I think the BTBs it's .36 or .37 - they have identical nose profiles.

 

[petander]

Mine has .375 meplat. No GC.

This was the heaviest "reasonable weight" bullet available to cycle in Marlins at the time.

I remember how I googled Robert, found his email and politely asked about possibility to buy a mold. Considering my location. I then sent him US dollars in an envelope. Got a beautiful brass mold, I even have the packaging,still.

My first custom mold,I must have nearly 100 molds by now... I'm looking at a CBE custom 375 H&H mold, NLG because I coat everything now. They said they can make it, that would be my first australian mold.

 

[sgt_zim]

With that nose profile and wide meplat, I bet you could do somewhere between 520 and 540 gr. Look at the 540 gr 45-70 loads at Garrett Cartridges

Garrett Cartridges Inc.

 

[petander]

Yep heavier could be possible with modern powders. It's the powder space that limits bullet weight here.

But this is 470 grains,can't change it,so be it. I only shoot heavier from 500 S&W, a 600 grn from a 2,5 snub is interesting.

I know what Garrett has.