The 243 Winchester for Australian Game

[F. Vaccaro]

The rabbits were long ago, (now we are overrun by stupid left wing politicians, ). a man made virus controlled the rabbits, shame it does not work on the fools in Canberra. Bob thinks you need at least a .35 for the remaining rabbits, as the are very tough now as the have mutated in to monsters they just laugh at 22s & 243s.

rdog, we feel your pain, we have a lot of them here in the States too!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

The bottom one in your photo looks like the larger (than cottontails) jack rabbits we have here?

@CoElkHunter
Everything is bigger in Australia mate.

 

[Dr Ray]

@CoElkHunter
Everything is bigger in Australia mate.

Of course like Americans think Texas is big!
Small compared to oz states

 

[rdog]

this one is a brno 465, one of my favourite's

View attachment 462419

Very nice.

 

[Dr Ray]

Yes, we call them hares, they do not borough like a rabbit & live in hollow logs & long grass. the virus for the rabbits does not effect them.

Hares have different flesh compared to rabbits. Rabbits are hardy critters and their flesh is similar to chicken in appearance. Hares have dark flesh which from
Memory is very soft.
I can remember my son, Craig eating hare when he was in a high chair. He’s 47 so it’s a fair while ago.

 

[MS 9x56]

Do your hares change color in winter? We have snowshoe hares here in northern NY that turn white in late fall through early spring.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Do your hares change color in winter? We have snowshoe hares here in northern NY that turn white in late fall through early spring.

@MS 9x56
You is funny boy. Our hares stay the same colour year round. They do get what we call a winter coat.
A cold winter here we get down to minus 16 degrees celcieus but that is very rare. Minus 6 a fair bit in the high country.
Nowhere near your Minus 20 to 40 Fahrenheit that you get.
Holy shit I would go white if I had to live in that temperature.
Bob

 

[rdog]

Do your hares change color in winter? We have snowshoe hares here in northern NY that turn white in late fall through early spring.

We do not really have a winter in QLD Australia

 

[MS 9x56]

We do not really have a winter in QLD Australia

Today I am wishing we didn’t have a winter. Calendar says it is spring but Mother Nature is contesting the issue. Forecast calling for 4-8 inches of snow tonight. Daffodils are not going to like that.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Today I am wishing we didn’t have a winter. Calendar says it is spring but Mother Nature is contesting the issue. Forecast calling for 4-8 inches of snow tonight. Daffodils are not going to like that.

I wish we were getting that snow here. It’s been windy, warm and extremely dry here. No moisture in weeks and fires popping up everywhere. Not good for April.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

I wish our rabbits would come back. Three years ago we saw the population declining & last year all we saw were a few tracks. Our cottontails are good eating.

 

[Dr Ray]

@MS 9x56
You is funny boy. Our hares stay the same colour year round. They do get what we call a winter coat.
A cold winter here we get down to minus 16 degrees celcieus but that is very rare. Minus 6 a fair bit in the high country.
Nowhere near your Minus 20 to 40 Fahrenheit that you get.
Holy shit I would go white if I had to live in that temperature.
Bob

No way I could live in those temperatures
My son will most likely be based in Anchorage Alaska (pilot). His job in Oz finished with the collapse of an airline (check captain).
Guess he’d soon discover how cold North America is. Mind you Craig used to live in Minneapolis,
I live in Cairns in the tropics atm. We don’t have a winter just a cool dry season. Usually get a “cold” snap in May or June for 2-3 days and that’s that. Don’t even get frosts here.
Rabbits on the Atherton Tableland (high country immediately west of Cairns) has rabbits but it appears the council has poisoned them frequently.
I used to tan rabbit and hare skins using baking soda and kerosene when I was young. The fur on the hare is very fine. The hares are a brownish color). These hares are called the European brown hare.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

We do not really have a winter in QLD Australia

 

[MS 9x56]

Damn forecasters were way off the mark. I should have known bad one was coming the chickadees and goldfinches were camping out on my feeders yesterday. Woke up to this. Oh and I just put my snowblower away for the summer. Bad move on my part. Need snowshoes today.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Their are a lot of naysayers that haven’t ever used a .243, and deride it as long as the day is long.

There’s an old saying,” Those who downplay, or jeer at the .243 have never hunted, or used one. Those that have, know the capabilities all too well!”

I know Bob has experience with people who have gone hunting with him that have used the wrong bullet weight in .243, and I have seen my fair share of nimrods that want to use a varmint weight bullet for everything. They can certainly do so, but then they will end up with catastrophic bullet failure for using it on the wrong game animals. Then they will cry, and gnash their teeth about it, and probably start hating the cartridge as well, even though it was their dumb idea to begin with, anyway.

The 100 gr and up bullets have always done me right.


Hawk

@hawkeyesatx
Here's another reason for me to dislike the 243. As I have said Winchester bullshitted to all of us about their pie in the sky velocities and the gullible swallowed it hook, line and sinker and willingly spooked those velocities.
Alas Winchester got caught out and had to revise their velocities. In actual fact the 243 was on par with the old 250 Savage but the Savage was a better cartridge as it could utilise the 117-120 gn bullets.

I rest my case your honour.
Bob

 

[ZG47]

@hawkeyesatx
Here's another reason for me to dislike the 243. As I have said Winchester bullshitted to all of us about their pie in the sky velocities and the gullible swallowed it hook, line and sinker and willingly spooked those velocities.
Alas Winchester got caught out and had to revise their velocities. In actual fact the 243 was on par with the old 250 Savage but the Savage was a better cartridge as it could utilise the 117-120 gn bullets.
View attachment 473764
I rest my case your honour.
Bob

Not to mention, as I have previously stated, both the .243 Winchester and 7mm Remington factory loadings were reportedly over pressure but this was not obvious until piezoelectric measuring systems for smallarms came into use in the mid-1960s.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Not to mention, as I have previously stated, both the .243 Winchester and 7mm Remington factory loadings were reportedly over pressure but this was not obvious until piezoelectric measuring systems for smallarms came into use in the mid-1960s.

@ZG47
The 250 Savage equals the 243 with a mild pressure of 47,000 psi.
The 243 needs another 10,000 psi to equal it.
The mild mannered Savage was getting the job done quite happily for 40 years before the new fangled 243 came out with a barrel full of bullshit.

 

[ZG47]

@ZG47
The 250 Savage equals the 243 with a mild pressure of 47,000 psi.
The 243 needs another 10,000 psi to equal it.
The mild mannered Savage was getting the job done quite happily for 40 years before the new fangled 243 came out with a barrel full of bullshit.

Agreed, for the tenth? OR hundredth time? Have a good week, Bob.

 

[Ragman]

Glad I don’t handload. Don’t have to worry about velocities and pressures. Just use the proper bullet, pull the trigger and start skinning with no stress! Lol

 

[steve white]

@rdog
You make some valid points BUT I personally have seen to much game wounded with the 243 to deem it worth while as a hunting round.
Here are some examples
243, 87gn federal blue box ammo. Bullet passed straight thru a big western grey kangaroo zero expansion.
Hand loaded 87gn VMAX, 3 chest shots to dispatch a mature Billy.
Hand loaded 95gn nosler balistic tip. Pig 1, 30kg weight bullet pass thru zero expansion, pig 2 same bullet exploded on the hide of a 50kg pig not mud encrusted large superficial wound. Pig 3 same bullet actually worked.

The problem with the 243 in Australia is most people select the wrong bullet for the game hunted. Most like the 87 grainers for general use on every thing and suffer failures. Loaded with a good 95gn SST or 100gn round nose it would probably be a fine cartridge within 200 yards for medium game but the majority of people don't see this.

When it first came out in a blaze of glory with Winchesters advertising it was supose to be the best thing to come down the turnpike since buttonup boots and sliced bread. It didn't live up to the velocity chain that Winchester made for it and they lowered the velocity.
I have loaded for a couple of 243s for friends working up to max charges and in no case could I get anywhere near the book velocity
87 grainers managed 2,900 fps in a tikka t3 light and just a tad over 3,000 in another rifle. The 100 grainers were struggling to get 2,800fps out of either rifle,closer to 2,700fps.
Book velocity for the 87s was 3,300 and the 100s were supposed to be 3,000 fps, a big difference.
I was at the range and a gent was trying out his new Sako 243 with factory Winchester 87 grainers and Hand loaded 87s. The factory loads chronoed at a bit over 2,800 and the Hand loads were only fractionally better.
My case is why would anyone want to use a cartridge that can't live up to its claims and advertising hype as a hunting cartridge with projectile that just don't work on their chosen game.
The little 250 Savage and mild mannered 257 Roberts have been around for a lot longer than the 243 and have been doing a better job than it for years but Winchester advertising killed them off and people started using the inferior cartridge because Winchester convinced people this is what they needed.
If you want to use a 243 by all means use it just stop asking me to finish off your wounded animals, I have done it to many time for hunters that are great shots.

One person I used to hunt with had a nice Tikka T3 lite in 243 that would shoot tiny little groups. He was give an old M17 converted to 25/06 that he asked me to look at. I glass bedded it, fitted a Timney trigger set at 2 pounds. That rifle grouped 2 inches at 200 yards. It was over 2 pound heavier than his beloved 243. After using the 25/06 he left the 243 at home and stated the 25 was far superior and killed how he was led to believe the 243 should. He has shot a 14 point red stag and a mountain brumby with it using federal 117grain blue box ammo and said if he had the 243 at the time he wouldn't have taken a shot at either.
Now you can understand my strong dislike for the 243, I just don't trust it and why I love my 25s for use in Australia, the 25s just seem to make Moe sense to me.
Bob

Of course, the 25'06 kills out of all proportion to bullet size--what a cartridge! Most people I know shoot 243's because they are recoil sensitive, or their wives or kids are. But the 7x57 is very inoffensive in that respect and a far better killer. 243 is IMHO just the tipping point toward the marginal rounds like 22/250. Some people rave over certain "drop the the shot" high velocity hits, but I just do not trust them to carry the mail. Sorry, all...I'm with Bob on this one.