The “458 Winchester Magnum, all the cartridge you’ll ever need” thread.

[TTundra]

Campfire anecdotes from a previous era.

These stories linger on ignoring decades of advancement in bullet and powder tech. There's always going to be operator errors and/or mechanical issues that will arise, but no different now than any DG cartridge.

The 458 Win is as formidable as most.

 

[odonata]

I'm a big bore fan but also a big bore newbie so I don't have much in the way of expertise to offer. Just enthusiasm. I have an old friend who kept talking about taking a trip to Africa when we retire in a couple of years and never being one to wait until the last minute, I used this possibility as a perfectly legitimate reason to buy more rifles "just in case".

I had a good assortment of Sako, Steyr, Ruger & Winchester rifles in 30-06, 9.3x74r, 375 H&H and 405 Winchester to handle any PG hunting that we might do. This was fairly easy to do because I could find these in left-handed bolts or ambidextrous falling blocks.

It got a little more challenging when I started trying to find a larger more powerful rifle in a left-handed bolt action. As Fatback posted on the previous page, it is possible to find a nice LH Winchester M70 or something like a LH Zastava, but they're not real common or always affordable. For my particular situation, a left-handed standard action was the easiest route to get started (I wasn't going to sacrifice my LH Winchester 70 Safari Express in 375 H&H to make a bigger rifle...I love it too much).

So eventually with a lot of patient & excellent advice from @Riflecrank, I bought an affordable Ruger M77 MkII in 7mm Rem Mag. I put pillars in it, Talley crossbolts & a stainless rod through the grip to reinforce it. I did all of the reinforcing while it was still a 7mm RM so I could make sure it reassembled properly and functioned well before upsizing the barrel.

I then got McGowen to make me a 23", 1:14 twist in a #5 profile to put on it.

With a Dremel, some chisels and a bit of sandpaper, I was able to enlarge the barrel inlet to make it into a nice 458 Win Mag for me to start testing with:

To get going, I've been shooting 404gr Shock Hammer's at 2,250 fps. I'm not going to lie: I was a bit intimidated the first day I took it to the range because I didn't know what to expect. Fortunately, it turned out great. I love the way this rifle shoots & I like the way it feels. Once I got used to shooting it & realized I wasn't going to have my glasses broken, it rapidly became one of my favorite rifles to shoot. I've only put 36 rounds through it in the last month but they all made me smile.

I need to practice, practice, practice. Not too bad for day #1.

With four rounds and a Leupold 3x20mm Big Bore scope, this rifle weighs 9.64# / 4,372 grams. Now that Arkansas has implemented a straight-wall season this year, it'll be interesting to see if I get a chance to try her out. If not, then maybe the next time I go hunting hogs in Texas.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I think the proven velocity with a 500 grain bullet is 2150 fps.

If a 458 achieves this level, then it is the equivalent of the 450 nitro and 470 nitro in double rifles.

If the Lott has an advantage in higher velocity, it only comes with more recoil.

Since the recoil of the 458 is the limit for most shooters, the Lott is more gun than we need for nearly any situation.

But in the event of a change at close range, there probably isn’t such a thing as too much gun.

Have you noticed that some of the same people that swoon and get poetic about the history and stopping power of the .470 NE will talk smack about the .458 WM?

 

[Nyala23]

Rock on 458! I load a 300 gr silvertip at ~2200. Absolutely flattened a doe on our early cwd weekend. Very fun to shoot. Defender st on top

 

[Badboymelvin]

Have you noticed that some of the same people that swoon and get poetic about the history and stopping power of the .470 NE will talk smack about the .458 WM?

Yes

 

[PerH]

Read the posts by Professor Mawla about his use of .458 also

And his way of protecting the ammo in air tight containers with moisture remover packs in them

 

[Hyde Hunter]

I'm a big bore fan but also a big bore newbie so I don't have much in the way of expertise to offer. Just enthusiasm. I have an old friend who kept talking about taking a trip to Africa when we retire in a couple of years and never being one to wait until the last minute, I used this possibility as a perfectly legitimate reason to buy more rifles "just in case".

I had a good assortment of Sako, Steyr, Ruger & Winchester rifles in 30-06, 9.3x74r, 375 H&H and 405 Winchester to handle any PG hunting that we might do. This was fairly easy to do because I could find these in left-handed bolts or ambidextrous falling blocks.

It got a little more challenging when I started trying to find a larger more powerful rifle in a left-handed bolt action. As Fatback posted on the previous page, it is possible to find a nice LH Winchester M70 or something like a LH Zastava, but they're not real common or always affordable. For my particular situation, a left-handed standard action was the easiest route to get started (I wasn't going to sacrifice my LH Winchester 70 Safari Express in 375 H&H to make a bigger rifle...I love it too much).

So eventually with a lot of patient & excellent advice from @Riflecrank, I bought an affordable Ruger M77 MkII in 7mm Rem Mag. I put pillars in it, Talley crossbolts & a stainless rod through the grip to reinforce it. I did all of the reinforcing while it was still a 7mm RM so I could make sure it reassembled properly and functioned well before upsizing the barrel.

View attachment 642902

I then got McGowen to make me a 23", 1:14 twist in a #5 profile to put on it.

View attachment 642907

With a Dremel, some chisels and a bit of sandpaper, I was able to enlarge the barrel inlet to make it into a nice 458 Win Mag for me to start testing with:

View attachment 642903

To get going, I've been shooting 404gr Shock Hammer's at 2,250 fps. I'm not going to lie: I was a bit intimidated the first day I took it to the range because I didn't know what to expect. Fortunately, it turned out great. I love the way this rifle shoots & I like the way it feels. Once I got used to shooting it & realized I wasn't going to have my glasses broken, it rapidly became one of my favorite rifles to shoot. I've only put 36 rounds through it in the last month but they all made me smile.

View attachment 642904
I need to practice, practice, practice. Not too bad for day #1.

With four rounds and a Leupold 3x20mm Big Bore scope, this rifle weighs 9.64# / 4,372 grams. Now that Arkansas has implemented a straight-wall season this year, it'll be interesting to see if I get a chance to try her out. If not, then maybe the next time I go hunting hogs in Texas.

now increase the velocity of those Hammers to 2460 to 2500 and you will be good

 

[Northern Shooter]

Has ANYONE here had a negative experience hunting with the 458 WM where the cartridge performed poorly?

I’ve yet to hear one.

 

[Mountaineer]

I use 400 grain Woodleigh soft points/ 450 CEB solids in my 458 win mag. Front trigger loaded with softs, back trigger loaded with solids. It’s accounted for 3 Cape buffalo and a truck load of plains game. Although I use lighter bullets for pg. No complaints here. I think it’s one of the greatest cartridges ever designed. It’s in O/U double configuration to boot.

 

[Rare Breed]

Seeing as both the 500 Jeffery and 505 Gibbs cartridges both have dedicated threads, I thought I’d give Africas #1 underdog the same love.

We all know the history of the 458 WinMag and the teething issues it experienced in the early years. We also know those issues have been resolved with modern powders and bullets.

Modern factory ammo will produce 2,100-2,140 fps for 500 grain bullets out of a 24” barrel and reloading will easily let you surpass 2,150 fps.

Considering the vaunted 450NE produced these velocities (sometimes less in reality) with a 480gr bullet which proved more than adequate on everything up to and including elephant, the 458 WM is more of the same with a higher S.D of .341.

5,100+ft-lbs of energy out of the lowest recoiling of the 0.458 DG cartridges at sub 65 ft-lbs out of a 10 lbs rifle, why would you ever want or need more with the additional recoil penalty?

Due to the cartridges compact OAL it can be used in a standard length action, not requiring a bulkier or more expensive magnum length action.

The cartridge can be reloaded with an extremely versatile range of projectiles ranging between 250-550gr making it suitable for everything from white tail and hogs up to bull elephant.

All in a relatively light and affordable package with readily available and affordable ammo (by DG standards).

What’s not to love? It’s like hitting the easy button.

Good points! I know everyone knows once you get into the 4+ calibers for buff or elephant it stops being about the caliber and becomes all about the quality of the bullet. My good friend @TOBY458 loves the caliber so much he put it in his AKA

 

[Fenstar]

Don’t get me wrong, I like the .458 WM- it just when you are late season, +40 degrees for days on end, it’s not a perfect world scenario. The Lott can be loaded to 2200 fps, no real recoil penalty, uncompressed, and lower pressure, guaranteed. The .458 WM on paper, and when conditions are good, does just fine. In my world I, never figure best case, as my basis for decisions. But history shows it to be very very capable… the Lott just more capable, in all scenarios.

 

[francois_458]

why do you guys like to beat yourself up with 500 grain bullets when a 404 Hammer Bullet or a 420 CEB will do the job and if you want to use a solid CEB makes a 400 gr solid. my Buffalo was just as dead with the 404 Hammer as he would have been with a 500 gr in the same shot placement and less recoil.

the 500gr projectiles offer significantly more penetration, especially when looking at solids. while bullets under 450gr may perform well in most situations, they lack the sectional density of the 500gr bullets. this is of course important for back up shots at fleeing or charging dangerous game.

 

[francois_458]

Don’t get me wrong, I like the .458 WM- it just when you are late season, +40 degrees for days on end, it’s not a perfect world scenario. The Lott can be loaded to 2200 fps, no real recoil penalty, uncompressed, and lower pressure, guaranteed. The .458 WM on paper, and when conditions are good, does just fine. In my world I, never figure best case, as my basis for decisions. But history shows it to be very very capable… the Lott just more capable, in all scenarios.

the .458wm will perform very well in less than ideal conditions. the only reason a lott would be considered better than a win mag is if the ammo is loaded with 550gr bullets. then you get the extra mass and penetration.
but more the most part, the 458 wm does very well for itself

 

[Piet-Vis]

the .458wm will perform very well in less than ideal conditions. the only reason a lott would be considered better than a win mag is if the ammo is loaded with 550gr bullets. then you get the extra mass and penetration.
but more the most part, the 458 wm does very well for itself

I wonder if that is really true.
It would be fun to test the penetration of a old fashioned 500 grain Hornady solid at 2150 fps against a modern flat meplat 450 grain solid at 2300 fps.

 

[francois_458]

I wonder if that is really true.
It would be fun to test the penetration of a old fashioned 500 grain Hornady solid at 2150 fps against a modern flat meplat 450 grain solid at 2300 fps.

That would be an interesting test
Though many people I know shoot 500gr modern flat meplat bullets at around 2150fps. I would have that over the lighter bullet any day

 

[Piet-Vis]

That would be an interesting test
Though many people I know shoot 500gr modern flat meplat bullets at around 2150fps. I would have that over the lighter bullet any day

Peregrine?

 

[francois_458]

Peregrine?

Dzombo

 

[Certus]

Sorry but the .458 Lott is just better in all regards. I say why compromise when it’s available, and easy.

I mean sure, if you prefer an inferior cartridge

 

[Certus]

My new production Model 70 Safari Express.
View attachment 642863

My dream .458 Winnie

 

[Certus]

Has ANYONE here had a negative experience hunting with the 458 WM where the cartridge performed poorly?

I’ve yet to hear one.

This one time 60 years ago I heard it failed. So it’s a bad cartridge