Telling the difference between types/makes of bolt actions

[Zambezi]

I really hope I'm not the only one here that can't tell the difference between a mauser and CZ action or any other bolt action.

How does one tell the difference? What should we be looking for/at?

That's just for starters! Let alone the difference between a ZKK602 and 550 action or a big or small ring mauser.

Growing up in Rhodesia I shot a lot with my dad's army issue FN, Uzi and 9mm as well as his o/u Baretta shotgun. I can usually tell the difference between those 4

Many here see a pic of a rifle and go "ooooo, lovely small ring mauser"....... I go "oooooo, nice and shiny rifle"

So I'd like to be educated (annotated pictures help!! )

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Let’s start with the basics.

Push Feed (Remington Model 700)

Control Round Feed (Churchill Mauser)

Tell me how many differences in the receivers you can spot. Then, we‘ll get down the next step: Telling apart a BRNO ZKK600 action from a Winchester Model 70 action.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Sorry... Couldn't resist. Someone was going to do it; it might as well be me.

To some degree I'm with @Zambezi ... I can spot some differences but not to the degree many of you can, so this will be fun to follow. But I'm a lever guy soooo...

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Sorry... Couldn't resist. Someone was going to do it; it might as well be me.

To some degree I'm with @Zambezi ... I can spot some differences but not to the degree many of you can, so this will be fun to follow. But I'm a lever guy soooo...


View attachment 486675

Oh, come now. You boys should be ashamed of yourselves! You’re such good hunters, both of you!

On a more serious note, Should I wait for Zambezi to give it a try or should I start breaking the differences down?

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I looked at both a bit. The one difference that seems obvious is cartridge/magazine length.

I can look at a lot of rifles and tell who made them and such. But there are other things that are a mystery and I've just never taken the time to educate myself. I somewhat said jokingly I'm a lever guy, but that's actually a part of it: that's my action of choice for most of my hunting and a good bit of my own gun collection.

 

[Zambezi]

OK it's nearly 1am but will give it a go....

Obviously cartridge length
CF seems to have more metal behind the bolt handle
CF seems to have more "throw" (i.e more lift required in order to allow the bolt to move rearward) although this may just be an optical illusion due to the pic or bolt handle design

 

[Zambezi]

Maybe it's like a kid that is just learning about cars. He sees a car but someone with more experience sees the difference between a BMW and a Vovlo. They both have the same basic shape to the untrained eye.

I can appreciate the lines of a rifle or the detail but the mechanism is indistinguishable. Maybe this thread as well as a bit of study and google pics will bring a little clarity.

 

[BourbonTrail]

Now try these:

 

[steve white]

Zambezi, observe that the Rem has a completely round bolt with no long controlled feed extractor on the side facing outward, likewise, the Churchill Mauser HAS that extractor running along the side you can see, covering what would be the view of the bolt itself. It is somewhat like a long flat spring the entire length.

 

[Zambezi]

CRPF, CF. PF, PF....?

 

[Zambezi]

I appreciate the explanation but without my glasses it's all a bit blurry under this light. Will definitely have a good look in the morning!

 

[Nhhunter]

Last one looks like a Weatherby bolt

 

[colorado]

Definitely two on left are Mauser or variants not sure about 3rd from left maybe Sako?

 

[Daveboone]

For the average practitioner, knowing about 80 percent of the bolts out there are Mauser variants , 10 percent Remington or Savage, and the remaining 10 % Weatherbys is whatcha need to know. Granted, over the past couple decades the market has a zinger full of high quality rifles from Sako, etc.

 

[baxterb]

Model 70 long action
Model 70 short action
Very well a mod 70 (post-64 PF)
Weatherby Mk5

 

[flatwater bill]

Good question, @Zambezi ...........as my teacher used to say....never be afraid to ask a stupid question, and be ridiculed and humiliated in front of the class. Just kidding.......good question.....FWB

 

[mark-hunter]

How does one tell the difference? What should we be looking for/at?

From practical approach:
When you want to change trigger blocking safety on cz550 or Zkk 602, you will realize you can not fit mauser 98 backmarket parts. For example recknagel. So following link does not fit zkk and cz 550 rifles:

Recknagel - Accessories for Hunting Rifles - System Technology › Recknagel

Under system technology, we understand essential accessories that contribute to the proper functioning of your weapon. Next to our classi…

www.recknagel.de

Those parts for zkk 602 and cz 550 are made by AHR, and when I checked last, they were not available for the moment. For some it is not important, but for some who want to upgrade his rifle, this can turn to nightmare, replacing the safety and/or trigger.

Checz safeties are also known, in original condition, to be off, in forward position, opposite to majority of rifle models

True mauser action has wing type safety.
it can be found on many older rifles, militiary and hunting alike, including premium rifles of london gun shops.




But by the half of last century the scopes came in regular and common use.
Wing type safety is not convenient for fitting the scope, because then the scope must be fitted too high.
So, factories turned to two solutions: trigger blocking safety like cz 550 and zkk (or zastava), or winchester and dakota type safety. Similar as per above link. bloking the firing pin

I know of at least one fatality, when outfitters camp rifle had classic mauser 98 wing safety, and low scope.
So, somebody filed off the wing safety, making it useless, in order to fit the scope low. As a result, the safety was off at all times. During the hunt, when rifle was handed from one in the party to the hunter, the rifle went off (by trigger scratching the branch, or accidental touch of trigger by finger) and the hunter infront was mortally wounded on accidental discharge.

The shape of the housing differ as well.
There are round bridge mauser - found on military models and early hunting models. Not designed to accept the scope. So gunsmith will have to drill and tap the holes.

Then you have single square bridge mausers, models made mostly for iron sight use, on rear square bridge you can fit a peep sight, or perhaps a red dot.

And finally double square bridge mauser receiver, designed to install scope on two rings, on flat bases in front and rear, so to speak.

Checz models cz and zkk are generally double square bridge design, with dove tail (an excellent solution).

 

[mark-hunter]

ZKK 602, and CZ 550 - factory rifles for magnum lenght actions!

Finally the action lenghts.
I dont think this is a written standard, as the lenght of action may differ from one factory to another, but as a general rule there are 3 action lenghts.
Short action for cartridges of 2.8 inches overall lenght, or less
Medium action for cartridges between 2.8 and 3.34 inch lenght
And magnum action for cartridges longer then 3.34 inch.

Fitting magnum cartdridge in medium action is possible with some adjustement, but generally avoided.
Probably, Winchester company had biggest influence in deteminging what is short, long or medium action, as they created most of the cartridges defining this.
308 win, loa 2.81 inch - short action

Medium action:
300 win mag, loa 3.34
458 win mag, loa 3.34
338 win mag, loa 3.34
This is not coincidence. This rounds are all deisgned to give magnum performace in medium lenght action, which is perfect as well for all round cartridge such as 30-06 (whose loa is as well 3.34)

This concept, now breaks most popular DG cartridge in the world, 375 H&H. but because of its popularity some factories try to fit 375 HH to medium action. Its doable, with adjustemnt.
Other factories stick to 3.34 norm and dont go out of this. (one of the reason why 8x68 will never be popular, and many do not produce rifles in chambering of 375 HH, but insteead go for max 9.3x62)

Price of this exercise to fit 375 in medium action is generally lighter rifle (stronger recoil), or invention of short magnums (like 375 ruger). All this to fit medium action. The drawback of short magnums is not their ballistic, which is very good, but availability of ammunition world wide. (I have never seen 375 ruger ammo in my local gun shop, for example), and in some cases rediced magazine capaciity.

Why I write this?
Because today is really hard to find magnum action Mauser rifle, for working mans budget.
The last of its kind were zkk 602, and cz 550. now phased out.

Modern magnum rifle, today, brand new is premium rifle, with starting price 10k at least.

So, one more characteristic of cz 550 or zkk 602, is magnum lenght action in factory rifle, and also full capacity magazine for cartridges like 375 H&H.

CZ 550 sfari magnum was produced in 375 HH, 458 win mag, 416 rigby, 458 lott.
It can easily be rebarreled with good gunsmith, to other DG magnum calibers.
FInding today mauser 98 type factory rifle, in magnum lenght action for DG calibers such as above, is no longer possible within 2.000 usd/eur budget. (unless second hand)

 

[Nevada Mike]

Differences in ejector design...

Push feed with plunger in the bolt face - fired round is under pressure from the plunger spring and ejection begins as soon as withdrawl of the bolt starts = cartridge case is tossed as it comes free of the receiver ring.

Controlled round feed with claw extractor - fired round is carried rearward on the bolt face, held in place by the extractor claw. Ejection occurs when the ejector blade (fixed in the rear of the action) moves through the slot in the bolt and contacts the head of the cartridge case. Ejection is delayed until the cartridge case is clear of the receiver ring.

There are variations - Puch feed with a claw extractor, etc., but the two above describe about 90% of bolt action designs.

 

[mark-hunter]

I think that Zambezi was asking about differences of various mauser controlled round feed actions. Not between push feed and CRF.