Taking bullets (not ammunition) to Professional Hunter

[Green Chile]

He was talking about a smokeless muzzleloader not blackpowder. They are essentially single shot modern bolt action rifles that load from the muzzle end. They have no ballistic disadvantage to a modern rifle. The problem is in flying with reloading components taken apart basically...powder, primers, etc.

 

[Green Chile]

Brass head stamps is a whole subject unto itself. I have a friend who hunted in Africa and had 5 clueless "officials" checking head stamps against the rifle's caliber markings. That could be a real mess. I know people who had problems with the wildcat calibers that were using brass that didn't match up with the caliber (like Contenders using .444 brass to shoot .375 JDJ, etc).

 

[Hillcountry63]

Any issues with taking bullets (not loaded ammo) to the PH in Africa? I would have them in factory boxes in a separate checked bag from the rifles of course. They would be in the bag along with my locked hard case of ammo. Not all of the bullets will match up with my rifles so is this a potential problem?

You should have no issues, I take brass and bullets to my Outfitter and PH each trip in my checked bag. The only thing you need to worry about is the bag weight.

 

[Green Chile]

You should have no issues, I take brass and bullets to my Outfitter and PH each trip in my checked bag. The only thing you need to worry about is the bag weight.

Do you declare any of that in your paperwork or just put it in checked luggage and watch your weight?

 

[C.W. Richter]

Brass head stamps is a whole subject unto itself. I have a friend who hunted in Africa and had 5 clueless "officials" checking head stamps against the rifle's caliber markings. That could be a real mess. I know people who had problems with the wildcat calibers that were using brass that didn't match up with the caliber (like Contenders using .444 brass to shoot .375 JDJ, etc).

Yeah, not worried about that! Done it 6x w/ wildcats and they never check. Plus, there's a simple way around that (that I'm not going to mention. Just use your "thinking caps.") i.e. 338-06 ammo in necked-up 3006 cases, 338 A-Sq in 338-378 Wby cases, 264 WSM in 300 WSM cases. It takes them too long to operate calipers... Just not a big deal. I did take letters from gunmakers the first couple of times (Mr. R. created a round by placing a 6.5 bullet in a .30 case and we manufactured a gun to his specifications, etc.) Waste of baggage! LOL Tell those ladies how perfect their skin is and move along! And, if they're not, give 'em a Bud Light!

 

[C.W. Richter]

unless otherwise allowed, I'm thinking, just put the smaller case/smokeless powder pellets inside a 500 cal case (gun is .50 cal lol) and push the bullets in by hand to seal it off. Done. Next! lol This thing has Africa written ALL over it (esp. w/ a PH .500 NE backing gun!) lol 2nd shots will take a few seconds...Due to the illegals sneaking EVERYTHING in to the USA, it's our own tax-paid airport folks that will question it....SMH!

 

[C.W. Richter]

I never inquired, but IF the muzzleloader powder discs are (or can be) available in Africa, that solves the entire dilemma. How did previous hunters travel to Africa to film their muzzleloader successes (much more primitive ones, mind you) with various containers of loose powders??? I can ask Roger Raglin, as he's a friend on another page (and a great human being!!!)

 

[rookhawk]

Because black powder is so volatile, you might have trouble getting an airline to transport it. I'd be interested to hear what you learn.

You cannot bring blackpowder or any loose powders on an aircraft. Either your PH sources your BH209 or BP in Africa, or you bring over pellets of pyrodex, white hots, etc.

 

[rookhawk]

I have heard stories of people bringing over a gun (a very large bore gun) with BS ammo full of blackpowder or whatever modern substitue you wish. Upon landing, they'd pull the bullets, dump the powder onto a grain scale, and measure out there stuff for muzzleloading.

All the BS people go through, including lugging a stooge rifle and ammo along, just to get the supplies into the country legal astounds me.

I've never had any attraction to black powder whatseover. My ugliest gun is a custom muzzle loader. Its an ugly, ugly, ugly, accurate tool that provides no joy and serves but one purpose: additional hunting days on the calendar and easier to draw tags VS rifle season tags.

 

[Green Chile]

Exactly. Some have done the same to get primers in for their modern muzzleloaders. They are ugly and soul-less but get extra days on the calendar as you said. I have a good one that is MOA accurate to 600 yards and beyond and it sits in the safe.

 

[rookhawk]

Sorry for the thread-jacking, friends.


@C.W. Richter my custom muzzleloader is built off the same 700UML platform as your gun.

If you want to "pimp your ride" for more accuracy and range, the modifications sort of go like this:

1.) Drop in trigger tech trigger
2.) Replace the UML brass ammo primer thingies with the magnum rifle modules by that guy out in Utah
3.) Put a Rex muzzlebrake on it to handle very stout recoil. Mine seems to tame much more than 50% of recoil.
4.) Replace the breach plug with a BH209 compatible one from that same guy in Utah.

Optic enhancements:

1.) Custom front sight aperture. Talley QD rear peep, reusing the factory williams peep insert (you're now legal in several western states)
2.) Since you put QD talley mounts on, Talley QD rings for your optic

Bullets:

i.) Fury bullets are way more accurate than anything else.

And if none of that is enough, you can send it out to have them throw the 50 cal barrel away and convert it to a 45 cal smokeless with all the 1-4 above and you've got a 700+ yard tack driver.

In the end, it's still the ugliest thing in our safes, but they certainly shoot as far as any non-SEAL can shoot accurately under all hunting circumstances.

 

[Green Chile]

My McWhorter 45XML is 1/4 MOA accurate to 600 plus yards shooting a Pittman 325 Aeromax bullet at 3100 fps. It’s more accurate than you can hold and at 500 yards still has over 3000 ft lbs of energy. It’s pretty amazing. We have shot groups under .2” at 100 yards.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Sorry for the thread-jacking, friends.


@C.W. Richter my custom muzzleloader is built off the same 700UML platform as your gun.

If you want to "pimp your ride" for more accuracy and range, the modifications sort of go like this:

1.) Drop in trigger tech trigger
2.) Replace the UML brass ammo primer thingies with the magnum rifle modules by that guy out in Utah
3.) Put a Rex muzzlebrake on it to handle very stout recoil. Mine seems to tame much more than 50% of recoil.
4.) Replace the breach plug with a BH209 compatible one from that same guy in Utah.

Optic enhancements:

1.) Custom front sight aperture. Talley QD rear peep, reusing the factory williams peep insert (you're now legal in several western states)
2.) Since you put QD talley mounts on, Talley QD rings for your optic

Bullets:

i.) Fury bullets are way more accurate than anything else.

And if none of that is enough, you can send it out to have them throw the 50 cal barrel away and convert it to a 45 cal smokeless with all the 1-4 above and you've got a 700+ yard tack driver.

In the end, it's still the ugliest thing in our safes, but they certainly shoot as far as any non-SEAL can shoot accurately under all hunting circumstances.

thx. 'already researched it up/down last year and after much time spent, found a burris scope reticle that actually matched the trajectory of the 240-300 gr .45 bullets in sabots, talleys, timney trigger, bedding...i don't wanna mess w/ the aftermarket breech plugs until I have to (as the factory one works just fine-super accurate!) in the factory metal, it shoots the rem factory (barnes) and powerbelts very well. i have reloaded the factory brass but used CCI 250 LMR primers and it's more accurate. 'have discussed the eventual new .45 bbl and better breech plug w/ Dixon's in PA (muzzleloaders is all they do-i think there's another-Metz) and they agree if using the .45 bullets (not in a .50 sabot) it becomes faster and the trajectory/range improves! right now they say 400 yds for a factory gun, with the above mods 500 yds (and that's plenty for that gun) and yes, i realized last deer season that it kicks like a mule w/ 200 gr of pellets down the pipe!!! It didn't bother me at the range, but was quite noticeable in the sitting position I shot from! shove, smoke, deer no longer seen. A custom dial (and likely a very expensive scope w/ lots of elevation) is definitely a necessity for the longer range shooting w/ this rig!!! I cannot get over the shot-to-shot consistency. I've prob fired 5 rounds in succession and all were dead on (and that's something for a "muzzleloader.") 'Also like how clean a rig it is (atypical of muzzleloaders as well.) Although I've been using pyrodex pellets as that's what I had, I may go to the even cleaner white (IMR?) but I've been told the V drops off a bit?

I've seen MUCH uglier, but it's a BRUTE! An interesting one! 'Got it primarily for early bear and deer seasons but it would do well in AK and Africa! To your point, oddly this purchase was driven by early and late muzzleloader-only seasons. It's amongst accurate of my rifles, so I have a deep respect for it.

 

[C.W. Richter]

*I found mine sitting in a safe at Kittery Trading Post in ME (N.O.S. brand new, discontinued years ago.) It was weeping in the dark, so it's a "Rescue." They were glad to see someone actually happy to take it!

 

[C.W. Richter]

You cannot bring blackpowder or any loose powders on an aircraft. Either your PH sources your BH209 or BP in Africa, or you bring over pellets of pyrodex, white hots, etc.

do they allow the pellets? that's all i use. (the days of two loose powders in a flintlock are OVER.) i suppose they could be put into indiv, sealed tubes of pellets/bullet loads ready to go in an ammo box, but 'quite certain it's going to be heavily scrutinized. Putting it all down a 500 or 600NE w/ a bullet pushed in might be swifter?

 

[rookhawk]

do they allow the pellets? that's all i use. (the days of two loose powders in a flintlock are OVER.) i suppose they could be put into indiv, sealed tubes of pellets/bullet loads ready to go in an ammo box, but 'quite certain it's going to be heavily scrutinized. Putting it all down a 500 or 600NE w/ a bullet pushed in might be swifter?

A sealed pack of IMR "white hots" in a locked ammo box shouldn't be an issue. The airlines are freaked out about powders and liquids, but honestly a pack of white hots looks just like a sexy box that fishing line is sold in.

 

[Hillcountry63]

Do you declare any of that in your paperwork or just put it in checked luggage and watch your weight?

Sorry just saw the question. I just watch the weight in my checked bag.

 

[Ivorygrip]

I took a box of sciroccos and a box of partitions on my last trip was flying Qatar via Doha to Harare not JNB never had any issues, had them packed in my shaving kit in checked luggage.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Here's where the rub is going to be...

Whats the intended purpose of the export?

Effective Nov 2022.. Customs says a US Citizen can take up to 1000 rounds of ammo out of the country for personal use (temp export) without a license (clearly the airlines arent going to go for 1000 rounds due to weight, nor is South Africa.. but strictly from a licensing perspective the "export" is allowed without one..

Where the license is coming into play is if you are looking at a permanent export (shipping over with the intent to sell them, gift them, or whatever...)... If thats the case, the US govt wants its piece of the action (there is no export tax.. but they do want their license fee, etc)...

So.. as I am understanding things the way the regulation is written now... if you want to take a couple of boxes of projectiles out of the country (even 10 boxes).. its a non issue.. as long as they are FOR YOU...

If you are taking them out of the country knowing you have no intention of using them or bringing them back.. then you need a license...

Now.. is anyone ever going to ask you "what happened to those 200 projectiles you took out of the country?"... very likely not...

But are you technically violating the law and exposing yourself to the possibility that someone might ask.. it appears to be so...

Its after hours in DC... Ive got to call our law office tomorrow for other matters anyway... I'll try to ask when Im talking to them about this and see if they agree/disagree and what else they have to say about it..

Did your law office agree with you?

 

[Rare Breed]

Any issues with taking bullets (not loaded ammo) to the PH in Africa? I would have them in factory boxes in a separate checked bag from the rifles of course. They would be in the bag along with my locked hard case of ammo. Not all of the bullets will match up with my rifles so is this a potential problem?

I would not to Zim…those people pull out every bullet, look at headstamped count them and make sure it matches your guns. I just got back so I know. I’m afraid a quickway to lose them taken. Just my POV