Tag Draws 2021

[PARA45]

I applied for South Dakota whitetail buck/doe. I hope to draw this year, I've had zero luck in the last 5 or so years. If this fails, SA next year.

 

[Firebird]

Talking to a biologist friend who said less tags for deer and antelope due to weather patterns-hard winter then drought summer and so forth so Wyoming offering less tags and increasing antler restrictions. Utah doing the same thing except elk which are doing very well and they will increase general tags.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I didn't think things would get better after my best buddy drew mountain goat and my 10-year-old daughter got a home-state bull moose tag..the Nevada came out and I drew a late rifle tag near Ely in a great set of units. I had 13 points and am really fortunate to have drawn with that few points. It'll be a full fall for sure. Goat scouting in summer, hopefully helping my buddy tag out in Sept before the snows...then shifting to moose which will be a change of pace because it is more of a road hunt...then it'll be time to sit behind a spotter in the cold trying to glass up a big elk.

@npm352
Forgive me for being ignorant but why do you need points to go in a draw and why do you need to go in a draw.
All this is totally foreign to us Australians. We want to hunt deer we pack our hunting gear and rifle and go and get one hopefully. We don't h ave seasons any more because deer are a pest. Even when we had a fallow deer season it went from April through until October.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'm reading all the posts and am not sure how to react. Being from South Africa we don't have a tag or point system. I understand that in Usa you hunt on public land and the management of the animals are taken into consideration, but here wr simply go to any number of hunting farms (some small but most are huge) and hunt what the budget determines. We pay per animal hunted. I count myself fortunate in this regard as i have the privilege of hunting every year and any species (that falls into budget).

@Elton
In New South Wales in Australia we have a few million acres of public land to hunt on free of charge. All we have to do is have an R license for hunting public land, sixty dollars a year. We then ring up tell them where we want to hunt and when and book our hunt for that time. All free of charge.
Bob

 

[revturbo9967]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen Hunting in the states is somewhat complicated in sense. There are certain species found in some states and not in another. Each state has their own hunting regulations. Due to the fact that game is available in one state but not another, makes demand for these animals much much higher then game available. The state managing these animals do not want to wipe out that particular species in one or two seasons so they only allow x number of tags .

Let’s use Maine moose as an example. The state of maine has a moose lottery system meaning the draw for a tag is at complete chance. You send in your application and fee and wait till june to see if you won that lottery. The biologists determin how many moose should be harvested each year to maintain the species. The average number of tags is around 1200 , sometimes more and sometimes less. To make things more complicated, they only allot 10% of those tags to non residents, or to people who do not live there. To sort this out they have a point system. The more points you accrue, the better your chances are to win the lottery. In Maine You get a point for each year you applied for a moose tag, and did not draw. Each point adds up over time and can help you gain a tag in the future. Maine is a tough one as they get around 40,000 applicants a year so drawing a tag is truly like winning the lottery.
Other states are different. Wyoming has moose too , but manages it completely different as far as the tag system goes . There you buy the points every year. You can only buy one point per year per species you want to hunt . The state then determines how many points it will take to draw a tag in turn causing the draw odds to go up or down. The draw odds are different by zone as well. Different zones will be more game rich then others and will have more or less public land then others. So let’s say for Wyoming elk , you may need 3 points or more to draw a tag for one zone but 12 to draw in another. That means you will need to wait 12 years minimum to hunt the latter. Also, just because you have 12 points does not mean you are guaranteed a tag. There may be more people applying with that amount of points then tags, making more points needed to draw. The area needing 12 points may have far lower tags available and larger numbers of animals making it more desirable.

Not all game in every state is like this. Deer in most states are just an over the counter tag and go hunting. The western states with elk, moose, pronghorn, mule deer, sheep and goats primarily operate with a points system due to have far more people wanting to hunt that game, then game available. All of this information is only for free ranging animals .

Game ranches and farms are pay per species like in RSA and most states do not require any special tag to hunt if they have a ranch operating . These ranches are not as popular as free range hunting as these ranches can be very very small taking the hunt out of the equation. Some can be as small as 100-300 acres and most not being much large then a few 1000. Because large whitetail deer can be found free ranging in many areas of the country, most choose to hunt them in the wild vs a game ranch due to cost. Deer on a game ranch can be as high as 25k for a single animal that will break the record books for that year.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen Hunting in the states is somewhat complicated in sense. There are certain species found in some states and not in another. Each state has their own hunting regulations. Due to the fact that game is available in one state but not another, makes demand for these animals much much higher then game available. The state managing these animals do not want to wipe out that particular species in one or two seasons so they only allow x number of tags .

Let’s use Maine moose as an example. The state of maine has a moose lottery system meaning the draw for a tag is at complete chance. You send in your application and fee and wait till june to see if you won that lottery. The biologists determin how many moose should be harvested each year to maintain the species. The average number of tags is around 1200 , sometimes more and sometimes less. To make things more complicated, they only allot 10% of those tags to non residents, or to people who do not live there. To sort this out they have a point system. The more points you accrue, the better your chances are to win the lottery. In Maine You get a point for each year you applied for a moose tag, and did not draw. Each point adds up over time and can help you gain a tag in the future. Maine is a tough one as they get around 40,000 applicants a year so drawing a tag is truly like winning the lottery.
Other states are different. Wyoming has moose too , but manages it completely different as far as the tag system goes . There you buy the points every year. You can only buy one point per year per species you want to hunt . The state then determines how many points it will take to draw a tag in turn causing the draw odds to go up or down. The draw odds are different by zone as well. Different zones will be more game rich then others and will have more or less public land then others. So let’s say for Wyoming elk , you may need 3 points or more to draw a tag for one zone but 12 to draw in another. That means you will need to wait 12 years minimum to hunt the latter. Also, just because you have 12 points does not mean you are guaranteed a tag. There may be more people applying with that amount of points then tags, making more points needed to draw. The area needing 12 points may have far lower tags available and larger numbers of animals making it more desirable.

Not all game in every state is like this. Deer in most states are just an over the counter tag and go hunting. The western states with elk, moose, pronghorn, mule deer, sheep and goats primarily operate with a points system due to have far more people wanting to hunt that game, then game available. All of this information is only for free ranging animals .

Game ranches and farms are pay per species like in RSA and most states do not require any special tag to hunt if they have a ranch operating . These ranches are not as popular as free range hunting as these ranches can be very very small taking the hunt out of the equation. Some can be as small as 100-300 acres and most not being much large then a few 1000. Because large whitetail deer can be found free ranging in many areas of the country, most choose to hunt them in the wild vs a game ranch due to cost. Deer on a game ranch can be as high as 25k for a single animal that will break the record books for that year.

@revturbo9967
Mate that is to complicated for this little black duck. It is beyond my comprehension. Thank you for your explanation.
I'm glad I don't have to go thru that to go hunting.
Bob

 

[revturbo9967]

@revturbo9967
Mate that is to complicated for this little black duck. It is beyond my comprehension. Thank you for your explanation.
I'm glad I don't have to go thru that to go hunting.
Bob

It’s not as bad as you think. It’s just that some game can’t be hunted at will due to availability. This is very similar to hunting in Zim. The difference is the hunter quantities are far higher so a more involved system is put in place to make things an even playing field for all .
The Yukon does it a bit different. Tags are in the hands of the outfits and you buy the hunt from the guide service . The cost of that hunt goes up for many reasons but mostly due to the low tag quota , prices are high leaving demand relatively low .
To add, the point / tag system is a massive income for a particular states biology and wildlife management program. If done right the hunters dollars , primarily from non residents pay the way for all of this management to be done. It’s not all perfect as you can imagine, but some of the states do a darn good job.
The kicker is the new hunters not knowing a thing about these systems saying “ I’m going to hunt elk this year” . They look into all of this and realize it takes a few years of preparation . Once they see it may take a few years to get a tag in a good area they decide to hunt a lesser area with over the counter tags which anyone can buy. Those seasons are usually later on in the year and for larger public properties.

 

[Tbitty]

The US hunting system is indeed complicated to follow. Each of the 50 states have their own rules and regulations, animals legal for hunting, and open seasons on the various animals. Most also have varying application dates and draw result dates. It gets hard to follow without putting it all on my calendar (Smart phone reminders are great for this!). Not to mention there are generally different rules for Residents vs Non-residents and how they allocate tags.

The simplest explanation I can give is based on economics - supply and demand. If 1000 tags are available and 2000 people apply, you'll have a 50% success rate on draw. Expand this for 50 states, then again for the states that draw by zone (Wyoming has 117 antelope zones for example). Each species may have different zone map and supply/demand.

Some have true lottery systems where you may get lucky and draw many years in a row, or unlucky and never get one. ... most do a Point System, where the more points you have, the higher your chances of drawing a tag. Going back to the supply/demand chart, in areas with huge demand for low supply, it generally takes years to get in (like @revturbo9967 said, Maine Moose can be 12+ years).

I am lucky to have a lifetime license in Kansas, so I can get an over the counter whitetail buck tag every year. But even there I have to apply for their limited draw of either species (Mule Deer in the western part of the state) tags. Most states are generous to their residents, so everyone can still go hunting for the most populus game while practicing good conservation on game that is less abundant.

 

[revturbo9967]

The US hunting system is indeed complicated to follow. Each of the 50 states have their own rules and regulations, animals legal for hunting, and open seasons on the various animals. Most also have varying application dates and draw result dates. It gets hard to follow without putting it all on my calendar (Smart phone reminders are great for this!). Not to mention there are generally different rules for Residents vs Non-residents and how they allocate tags.

The simplest explanation I can give is based on economics - supply and demand. If 1000 tags are available and 2000 people apply, you'll have a 50% success rate on draw. Expand this for 50 states, then again for the states that draw by zone (Wyoming has 117 antelope zones for example). Each species may have different zone map and supply/demand.

Some have true lottery systems where you may get lucky and draw many years in a row, or unlucky and never get one. ... most do a Point System, where the more points you have, the higher your chances of drawing a tag. Going back to the supply/demand chart, in areas with huge demand for low supply, it generally takes years to get in (like @revturbo9967 said, Maine Moose can be 12+ years).

I am lucky to have a lifetime license in Kansas, so I can get an over the counter whitetail buck tag every year. But even there I have to apply for their limited draw of either species (Mule Deer in the western part of the state) tags. Most states are generous to their residents, so everyone can still go hunting for the most populus game while practicing good conservation on game that is less abundant.

My poor father in law has 34 points for Maine moose . He has never drawn a tag to date . I have around half if I remember . You can buy blocks of points when applying for a tag, but it’s skewed. The points you buy extra are only to compete against other non residents who are already in a different draw lottery then residents . Unless you buy 1000s of points , at the end of the day it’s just a donation to the state of Maine

 

[npm352]

@npm352
Forgive me for being ignorant but why do you need points to go in a draw and why do you need to go in a draw.
All this is totally foreign to us Australians. We want to hunt deer we pack our hunting gear and rifle and go and get one hopefully. We don't h ave seasons any more because deer are a pest. Even when we had a fallow deer season it went from April through until October.
Bob

Hi Bob,

Basically supply and demand is the reason. There are way more people that want to hunt moose or 360 inch elk on public land than tags available.

While there are places we can hunt some species over the counter, many in the west are limited.

The elk tag I drew had over 3400 applicants for 11 tags. A landowner tag for the unit would cost between $20,000-30,000 USD for the same tag. It is a high end tag where getting a 350-380 inch bull is a good possibility with a chance for something over 400 inches. That is a special unit. These are free range, no fences and on public land.

The point systems give people who put in longer a better chance as an incentive to stay in the game. Some point systems square your points and give you that many "names in the hat." Some states have no point systems and it is truly random each year. There are several variations and keeping up with them takes time.

What it comes down to is that if you want to hunt the best tags in the west you need to either put in for draws or buy landowner tags (of which only some are offered in some states for a limited amount of species ...you won't get a sheep or goat landowner tag.) Landowner tags are expensive. You pay alot for a crack at deer and elk with top genetic potential. The other option are state auction tags which are very limited and can go as high as $480,000+USD for top tags. That is not a typo. That is the Montana bighorn tag record I believe.

Social media, among other things, has driven demand for western USA tags significantly and it isn't slowing down.

Basically, people want to hunt stuff DIY on public land but there aren't enough animals for everyone.

I am not too old but started this game when I was 18 and living in the Midwest. It has paid dividends. I moved out west to hunt public land when I was 25. I barely ever look at my savings/retirement portfolio, but I can tell you exactly how many points I have for each species in like 8 states haha.

 

[Tra3]

Do you drive out to Montana and Idaho?

I'm thinking about it for bear/elk but I have degenerative disc disease and don't know that I could handle the drive without making it a several day thing just on its own, which kills hunting time in a big way.

So I'm wondering, if you do drive, do you have an approximate idea of how many hours to get to western Montana and North Central Idaho?

I'm North of the cities in MN, but it should give me a real world idea.

Sorry for the slow response, I missed this earler.
I make multiple trips in the fall, usually we drive and leave a vehicle, then get a round trip out of MT to MN and then back to Mt. (and leave the vehicle) The drive from the twin cities to Bozeman is a good 14+ hours. Idaho is more like 17 hrs or more. I’ve done it overnight a number of times, that is tough. I have family in Bozeman where I grew up so I go back and hunt with them.
A flight and a rental is not a bad idea, it saves enough time to justify the cost. But… I do enjoy that drive, it is beautiful once you start getting into the West.

 

[revturbo9967]

I don’t hesitate to drive from New England to Colorado or Wyoming. It’s normally around 32 -34 hours. I do it in a few days and stay nights at hotels. Call me crazy but I like it.

 

[jduckhunter]

I love the drive from PA to WY, been doing it every fall since 1984. It takes anywhere from 32 to 36 hours depending on how many stops we make and how much time we spend at diner's harassing waitresses. I like to drive straight thru, I tried stopping overnight a few times but found myself unable to sleep in most motel room beds. A few short cat naps in a couple of rest stop parking areas and I'm good for a few more hours. The drive is a lot easier now then it was 30 to 35 years ago, back then we had to carry a gas can along and plan our stops because there weren't many gas stations that were open 24 hours, our trucks only got 10 to 12 mpg and were equipped small gas tanks. Today with 30 to 35 gal gas tanks, cruise control and 24 hour truck stops or gas stations at what seems like every intersection it takes away a lot of the stress. From now on the only gas cans I'll be taking along will be for the side by side that I decided to buy because damn I'm getting old and the broken prairie in WY isn't getting any easier to hike over.

 

[revturbo9967]

I love the drive from PA to WY, been doing it every fall since 1984. It takes anywhere from 32 to 36 hours depending on how many stops we make and how much time we spend at diner's harassing waitresses. I like to drive straight thru, I tried stopping overnight a few times but found myself unable to sleep in most motel room beds. A few short cat naps in a couple of rest stop parking areas and I'm good for a few more hours. The drive is a lot easier now then it was 30 to 35 years ago, back then we had to carry a gas can along and plan our stops because there weren't many gas stations that were open 24 hours, our trucks only got 10 to 12 mpg and were equipped small gas tanks. Today with 30 to 35 gal gas tanks, cruise control and 24 hour truck stops or gas stations at what seems like every intersection it takes away a lot of the stress. From now on the only gas cans I'll be taking along will be for the side by side that I decided to buy because damn I'm getting old and the broken prairie in WY isn't getting any easier to hike over.

It took us 32 hours to go from CT to CO non stop with 3 drivers. Ride out is always a blast, ride back always takes a bit longer , stops are needed ha

 

[calling4life]

Sorry for the slow response, I missed this earler.
I make multiple trips in the fall, usually we drive and leave a vehicle, then get a round trip out of MT to MN and then back to Mt. (and leave the vehicle) The drive from the twin cities to Bozeman is a good 14+ hours. Idaho is more like 17 hrs or more. I’ve done it overnight a number of times, that is tough. I have family in Bozeman where I grew up so I go back and hunt with them.
A flight and a rental is not a bad idea, it saves enough time to justify the cost. But… I do enjoy that drive, it is beautiful once you start getting into the West.

I certainly appreciate the response, thank you.

 

[jduckhunter]

Wyoming draw results are in! Looks like I'll be hunting mule deer and antelope again this fall.

 

[Firebird]

No tags for anyone in my household this year in Wyoming. I am sad. . .

 

[jduckhunter]

No tags for anyone in my household this year in Wyoming. I am sad. . .

Sorry to hear that Firebird, I wasn't feeling real sure about drawing deer tags this year, it's been a real nail biter the last two years

 

[UKHunter]

Wyoming draw results are in! Looks like I'll be hunting mule deer and antelope again this fall.

Hope you have a good one!

 

[jduckhunter]

Hope you have a good one!

Thanks Tom, it's going to be a fun hunt for sure. A new friend from AH and a friend of his are joining me this year.