Suppressed Weapon Systems of Stafford, TX

[ZG47]

@Justin. The suppressor is going to generate significant barrel mirage. This will be an issue regardless of sighting system, especially in a hot area. The Red Army created and issued the mirage band that you now see as an option for sniper/tactical/target rifles; to assist their snipers in Afghanistan.

That was for the Dragunov self-loading rifle chambered to 7.62x54. The .404 Jeffery uses more propellant and will generate significantly more heat energy. The suppressor will also transfer that energy to the air more quickly than a standard .404 Jeffery barrel.

Best of luck with your rifle build and eventual hunt BUT please consider the above information. You cannot, with all due respect, change the laws of thermodynamics.

 

[wesheltonj]

Not sure of your budget, but Blaser makes an internal suppress barrel. I suspect if you contacted Blaser they would have the correct information about traveling outside the USA with it.

 

[Tra3]

Blaser has a nice video showing a guy shoot the same gun with no muzzle treatment, with a muzzle brake and then with a suppressor. The POI was barely changed over the shots. That was impressive to me.
my understanding is there is both a change in barrel harmonics, increased bullet speed, and a different pressure release at the crown. Those things change POI. I have experience with a grand total of two suppressors I own and 5 different muzzle brakes. That is a very small sample, but all caused a POI shift. Note: none caused shot groupings to open up.
I’ll defer to the engineers to explain what was going on and why.

 

[BeeMaa]

Note: none caused shot groupings to open up.

I didn’t mention this, but my groups actually shrunk slightly with a suppressor. Only noticeable with a micrometer, but there was a slight difference.

 

[Forrest Halley]

@Justin. The suppressor is going to generate significant barrel mirage. This will be an issue regardless of sighting system, especially in a hot area. The Red Army created and issued the mirage band that you now see as an option for sniper/tactical/target rifles; to assist their snipers in Afghanistan.

That was for the Dragunov self-loading rifle chambered to 7.62x54. The .404 Jeffery uses more propellant and will generate significantly more heat energy. The suppressor will also transfer that energy to the air more quickly than a standard .404 Jeffery barrel.

Best of luck with your rifle build and eventual hunt BUT please consider the above information. You cannot, with all due respect, change the laws of thermodynamics.

Mirage is not happening after one or two shots. Depending on powder charge and other factors like case pressure and caliber you may get as many as five or more shots before mirage affects sight picture.
I can go a full magazine of subsonic 300 BLK or about 15 or 20 rounds of supersonic 5.56 or about five 300 WM before mirage affects me. That's been my experience with my suppressor.

My suppressor is a .308 caliber titanium monocore design that is belt fed fully automatic capable featuring a gas bypass system and QD host adaptors.

What is your experience level with suppressors?

Blaser has a nice video showing a guy shoot the same gun with no muzzle treatment, with a muzzle brake and then with a suppressor. The POI was barely changed over the shots. That was impressive to me.
my understanding is there is both a change in barrel harmonics, increased bullet speed, and a different pressure release at the crown. Those things change POI. I have experience with a grand total of two suppressors I own and 5 different muzzle brakes. That is a very small sample, but all caused a POI shift. Note: none caused shot groupings to open up.
I’ll defer to the engineers to explain what was going on and why.

This video looks like maybe 100m.

So there's that detail in the

I didn’t mention this, but my groups actually shrunk slightly with a suppressor. Only noticeable with a micrometer, but there was a slight difference.

Which .30 cal cartridge were you using? Were you using handloads? Which suppressor do you have for the .30?

 

[Justin.]

Very interesting topic on the mirage! I have no practical experience with suppressors beyond using an outfitters, but I wonder how the barrel shroud they use for integrally suppressed barrels would play into the mirage conversation?

 

[BeeMaa]

Which .30 cal cartridge were you using? Were you using handloads? Which suppressor do you have for the .30?

300WSM. Federal factory loaded 180 grain Trophy Copper Tipped Boat Tail. I can't be positive about the bullet, but I know it was 180 grain and had a polymer tip and copper color to it. Deadair Sandman-S 7.62mm suppressor. Rifle was a Savage 16 Bear Hunter that I had the factory brake cut off and the barrel threaded 5/8-24 for the adapter.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Very interesting topic on the mirage! I have no practical experience with suppressors beyond using an outfitters, but I wonder how the barrel shroud they use for integrally suppressed barrels would play into the mirage conversation?

Mirage bands and suppressor covers are of little use on a hunting rifle. You're not firing enough rounds in rapid succession to see the mirage most times. It's going to be one big mirage generator likely. You can combat that with a 36" mini blind and a little ingenuity if you must have a solution to it.

300WSM. Federal factory loaded 180 grain but I don't remember the bullets. Deadair Sandman-S 7.62mm suppressor. Rifle was a Savage 16 Bear Hunter that I had the factory brake cut off and the barrel threaded 5/8-24 for the adapter.

That's a good one for sure. I looked at it when I has shopping, but ended up going small shop in the end.

 

[Forrest Halley]

So I got bored today and took my .300 WM out for a shushed spin. At two shots through the suppressor with long range rounds I wasn't exactly going to put it in my pocket, but there were no signs of the evil mirage. My little boy was taking a nap otherwise I would have fired five shots, but it wasn't as quiet as I'd hoped.

 

[Tra3]

So I got bored today and took my .300 WM out for a shushed spin. At two shots through the suppressor with long range rounds I wasn't exactly going to put it in my pocket, but there were no signs of the evil mirage. My little boy was taking a nap otherwise I would have fired five shots, but it wasn't as quiet as I'd hoped.

So what would you estimate the sound and recoil reduction to be? I find that I don’t get ringing ears. I also suspect the recoil reduction to be 30% or maybe more.

 

[BeeMaa]

So what would you estimate the sound and recoil reduction to be? I find that I don’t get ringing ears. I also suspect the recoil reduction to be 30% or maybe more.

When shooting my 300WSM, having the suppressor on reduced the noise to the point that it would not be uncomfortable to shoot while hunting without ear protection. As for range time, I still preferred to wear hearing protection.

The 22lr suppressor is a different story, mostly because I’m using subsonic ammo. It sounds like someone clapped their hands when I fire a cartridge. Wicked quiet.

 

[Forrest Halley]

So what would you estimate the sound and recoil reduction to be? I find that I don’t get ringing ears. I also suspect the recoil reduction to be 30% or maybe more.

The sound reduction is about down to the level of a .22 WMRF or some more. It is not as discreet as you'd think, but it takes the belly out of the boom. It not as bad as a .223 or .243, but my suppressed AR is quieter with 5.56 supersonic ammunition. As to recoil, I had loaded up some #9 lead shot in the stock of this rifle years ago on it's first 300 WM barrel to take away recoil. This completely kills any meaningful recoil. I could give this rifle to a child for a day and they'd come back without any marks.

I don't know about the ringing ears. Unless it's a bolt action, the port noise is always louder than the muzzle.

When shooting my 300WSM, having the suppressor on reduced the noise to the point that it would not be uncomfortable to shoot while hunting without ear protection. As for range time, I still preferred to wear hearing protection.

The 22lr suppressor is a different story, mostly because I’m using subsonic ammo. It sounds like someone clapped their hands when I fire a cartridge. Wicked quiet.

I wear hearing protection no matter what. I find that electronic earmuffs make me even quieter on stalks as I pay more attention to the ground noise.

With .22's I have always felt that subsonic shorts out of a 20" barrel or so make almost no report and I don't have to concern myself with a suppressor. I will say that shooting subsonic ammunition is a key to becoming a better shooter because it forces you to follow through.