Straight-Wall Rimmed Wildcat Ideas

[Sarg]

I must agree on the Wildcats after playing with heaps of them & ideas of them for years, but still fun & I have a few more lol !

I used the 30 Blaser case in my H&R 45Colt/410 to use the whole chamber, increase power & put the bullets near the rifling, worked great, tried the 9.3X74 as well but the rim was not as good a fit !

 

[machinistbutler]

I have my fair share of traditional cartridges too, but I love messing around with guns and reloading and so I have a lot of fun wildcatting. It might not be the most practical, but it sure is satisfying to spend time building and shooting your own.

On a slightly smaller scale I have an Antique Swiss revolver from the 1800's in 7.5 Swiss. Originally a black powder cartridge used right up to the 1970's .

It is about impossible to find factory rounds for it . A company in Saskatchewan is making some new ammunition, but at around $125 a box, and it is so mild it is ridiculous.

The cylinder in these revolvers are quite long, much longer than the original brass. I did some measuring and ordered some 32-20 brass, sized it in a 32 S&W long die enough so that it will hold a Lapua 32 caliber wadcutter perfectly. Light load of unique and a light crimp, and it works beautifully.

Made the old revolver useable again , and it is great fun to shoot! .

Original brass so short, next to the 32-20 brass sized to work in the cylinder.

Apologies @Saul for being a bit off topic, but I know what you mean about having enjoyment working with things a little different .

 

[NJC]

I will have to admit that I love the idea of the 375 necked up to .458 as a second barrel set for a flanged.

@xausa do you have any more written info on the round you developed? Did you have the reamer dimensions/loading info still?

 

[Scrumbag]

44 mag stretched a bit, not as far as 444 marlin, maybe to 44 mag what 454 casull is to 45 colt

 

[Saul]

On a slightly smaller scale I have an Antique Swiss revolver from the 1800's in 7.5 Swiss. Originally a black powder cartridge used right up to the 1970's .

It is about impossible to find factory rounds for it . A company in Saskatchewan is making some new ammunition, but at around $125 a box, and it is so mild it is ridiculous.

The cylinder in these revolvers are quite long, much longer than the original brass. I did some measuring and ordered some 32-20 brass, sized it in a 32 S&W long die enough so that it will hold a Lapua 32 caliber wadcutter perfectly. Light load of unique and a light crimp, and it works beautifully.

Made the old revolver useable again , and it is great fun to shoot! .

Original brass so short, next to the 32-20 brass sized to work in the cylinder.
View attachment 417199

View attachment 417200

Apologies @Saul for being a bit off topic, but I know what you mean about having enjoyment working with things a little different .

I bet that revolver must be an absolute blast to shoot, no pun intended. I have a sweet spot for small .32s

 

[Saul]

Would there be enough difference in performance to worry about between the 450-470 wildcat and the standard 450 3 1/4

About the same as the difference between 450 and 470, so if a little bigger bullet matters to you there is that. It is also just nice to have something a little different. Basically, I am in love with the idea of the 475 NE and what it represents in the evolution of NE cartridges, and I think it is a better design than the 470 NE, I just wish that bullets were as available. That is why I suggested remaking the 475 NE only using the 0.474 from the 470 instead of the 0.483 that it currently uses.

 

[crs]

I too, Have found a way to hunt with available rifles and cartridges without inventing new ones. I must confess though, to extending the chamber on my Winchester 1895 .405 to allow crimping on the cannelure of the 400 grain Woodleigh bullet.
My understanding of the term wildcatting is the same as Saul has suggested.

Question for PerH in Norway though: What performance/muzzle velocity would you expect from your proposed .40x74R ? I ask because my .405 WCF muzzle velocity is 2250 fps with a 300 grain .411 bullet and that seems quite effective on most medium to large game. I can load that up to 2450 fps, but it has not been necessary so far.

lvw ; we have found yet another aspect of shooting and hunting upon which we can agree!

 

[crs]

Mark Hunter,
Another confession- not all of my rifles shoot "boring" cartridges" !
For instance, the .405 WCF and the .45-90 (.458 2.4 inch case with 96% the powder capacity of the .458 Win Mag). Modern loading components allow these cartridges to shoot well above their original weight at safe pressures. They both have collected some DG. And I like the Winchester rifles.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have built a couple of rifles based on the full length 9.3X74R necked up to .44 caliber, and shooting Hornady's 265 gr. Soft Point and 320 gr. Gas Checked Hard Cast bullets, both the guns and the loads were quite impressive!

Round Ball

@Round Ball
That would be awesome if you loaded 400gn cast bullets. Awesome penetration. I read about a person that built a 444 marlin single shot long throated for the 400s with a one in 20 twist and was getting 1600fps with them. You should get a lot quicker than that.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have my fair share of traditional cartridges too, but I love messing around with guns and reloading and so I have a lot of fun wildcatting. It might not be the most practical, but it sure is satisfying to spend time building and shooting your own.

@Saul
I agree with you but it can get to be an expensive hobby and you end up with a rifle that no body wants .
Bob

 

[Saul]

@Saul
I agree with you but it can get to be an expensive hobby and you end up with a rifle that no body wants .
Bob

Good news for me because I have more money than brains, and if nobody wants them, then I never have to sell them!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Good news for me because I have more money than brains, and if nobody wants them, then I never have to sell them!

@Saul
Does that mean if nobody wants your money or brains you will keep both
Ha ha ha ha ha ha
Bob

 

[Bert the Turtle]

This is exactly what I was looking for, thank you! I had the same thought as you that it would be the .450 NE in a trimmer package. Not sure why this would not be hugely popular in double rifles.

I suspect nostalgia is very important to many if not most people who are in the market for a double. Having a 450NE or 470, etc may be more important than the amount of practical advantage gained with a wildcat.

 

[xausa]

I see no use for wild cats I do prefer old traditional cartridges that have proven themselves. 22lr, 222 rem, 7x57mm, 338, 9.3x74r, 375 H&H, 12ga, 7x65r, 500 Jeff, etc.

The first three rifles I had built back in the 1950's were a 6.5X.308, a .219 Ackley Improved Zipper and a .22-.250 Savage. Every one of those cartridges filled a niche otherwise unoccupied. The .219 AI has been legitimized as the .225 Winchester and the .22-.250 Savage as the .22-.250 Remington. Only the 6.5X.308 is still out in the cold.

The British double rifle calibers were by and large made the size they were because they used cordite as a propellant. With modern powders it is possible to reproduce the original performance with much less powder and powder room.

The Germans routinely make rimmed versions of their successful rimless cartridges for use in double rifles, drillings and single shots. American ammunition designers see little demand for this and don't attempt to create a rimmed .30-'06, or .270. I once built a Winchester High Wall in caliber .250 Savage R. using 8X57 JRS brass to form the cartridge from, and it filled a definite gap in ammunition development.

 

[machinistbutler]

I

The first three rifles I had built back in the 1950's were a 6.5X.308, a .219 Ackley Improved Zipper and a .22-.250 Savage. Every one of those cartridges filled a niche otherwise unoccupied. The .219 AI has been legitimized as the .225 Winchester and the .22-.250 Savage as the .22-.250 Remington. Only the 6.5X.308 is still out in the cold.

The British double rifle calibers were by and large made the size they were because they used cordite as a propellant. With modern powders it is possible to reproduce the original performance with much less powder and powder room.

The Germans routinely make rimmed versions of their successful rimless cartridges for use in double rifles, drillings and single shots. American ammunition designers see little demand for this and don't attempt to create a rimmed .30-'06, or .270. I once built a Winchester High Wall in caliber .250 Savage R. using 8X57 JRS brass to form the cartridge from, and it filled a definite gap in ammunition development.

Would your 6.5x308 not be the 260 Remington today?

 

[Scrumbag]

On a slightly smaller scale I have an Antique Swiss revolver from the 1800's in 7.5 Swiss. Originally a black powder cartridge used right up to the 1970's .

It is about impossible to find factory rounds for it . A company in Saskatchewan is making some new ammunition, but at around $125 a box, and it is so mild it is ridiculous.

The cylinder in these revolvers are quite long, much longer than the original brass. I did some measuring and ordered some 32-20 brass, sized it in a 32 S&W long die enough so that it will hold a Lapua 32 caliber wadcutter perfectly. Light load of unique and a light crimp, and it works beautifully.

Made the old revolver useable again , and it is great fun to shoot! .

Original brass so short, next to the 32-20 brass sized to work in the cylinder.
View attachment 417199

View attachment 417200

Apologies @Saul for being a bit off topic, but I know what you mean about having enjoyment working with things a little different .

If you pop over to you tube, have a look for "Bloke on the Range" and a guy called "The Chap" or "Chap on the range" - they are both Brits who live in Switzerland and are engineers by background. They do lots of interesting videos on older Swiss guns.

Best wishes,

Scrummy

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

The first three rifles I had built back in the 1950's were a 6.5X.308, a .219 Ackley Improved Zipper and a .22-.250 Savage. Every one of those cartridges filled a niche otherwise unoccupied. The .219 AI has been legitimized as the .225 Winchester and the .22-.250 Savage as the .22-.250 Remington. Only the 6.5X.308 is still out in the cold.

The British double rifle calibers were by and large made the size they were because they used cordite as a propellant. With modern powders it is possible to reproduce the original performance with much less powder and powder room.

The Germans routinely make rimmed versions of their successful rimless cartridges for use in double rifles, drillings and single shots. American ammunition designers see little demand for this and don't attempt to create a rimmed .30-'06, or .270. I once built a Winchester High Wall in caliber .250 Savage R. using 8X57 JRS brass to form the cartridge from, and it filled a definite gap in ammunition development.

@xausa
Sorry to disappoint but the 6.5/308 is now the 260 Remington.
Bob

 

[Scrumbag]

@xausa
Sorry to disappoint but the 6.5/308 is now the 260 Remington.
Bob

Probably one of the most useful looking 308 derivatives I reckon

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Probably one of the most useful looking 308 derivatives I reckon

@Scrumbag
Scrummy it's a wonder it didn't do better the same as the 338 fed and 358 win are unloved for some strange reasons.
Bob

 

[Scrumbag]

What's the matter @Bob Nelson 35Whelen ? Think I should have said .338 Federal or 358W?

@Scrumbag
Scrummy it's a wonder it didn't do better the same as the 338 fed and 358 win are unloved for some strange reasons.
Bob

It is a shame, both very useful. In fact, as the BLR comes in 358W, I think that could be a great driven boar set up here in Europe.

I'm generally of the opinion that .308W does better necked up rather than necked down.