Sticky bolt?

[Shootist43]

Bruce, you might be correct. I normally run my reloads through the magazine and action before going hunting. If I'm going to the range I just take my chances. The only time I'll use the new die is if a round will not chamber in a specific rifle when using my normal Redding Dies. If a number of rounds will chamber in one of the rifles but no others, I'll have to keep the brass separated, or possibly sacrifice case life as you suggested.

 

[bruce moulds]

if that die is so good, I would ask why rcbs, redding, and lyman are not turning them out in quantity.
old fred huntington would have been making them years ago, but he knew the problem with sizing belted cases too low down.
not sizing there was almost part of reloading 101 in years gone by.
and this type od die actually puts a step in the brass in front of the belt - the most efficient way to work harden brass possible.
the sellers of that die either don't understand the process, or are taking advantage of innocent people.
bruce.

 

[Shootist43]

Bruce, you bring up an excellent point. It looks like I just spent $130.00 stupidly. Thanks for sticking to "your guns" and warning me off this venture.

 

[fourfive8]

The base collet type die is ADJUSTABLE and only sizes the area 1/2" or less immediately ahead of the belt. A regular resizing die (no matter if it is Redding, Lee, RCBS, Hornady, CH, etc.) sizes the same part of a beltless case, just at the leading edge of the web- because there is no belt in the way. Simple as that. If not then the same thing happens, belted or beltless- that area of the case will swell under pressure and after 1,2 or 3 three shots, it will not spring back enough to allow friction free chambering, or may not allow chambering at all. The belt has nothing to do with whether that part of the case swells or not or springs back enough to allow free chambering. Basically no difference in the two. The base collet die has nothing to do with how many firings a case can be be used before having to be discarded- other than it can provide a few more reloadings before having to discard a belted case. If you load belted cartridges to full pressure and have a normal chamber, there is a good chance that by reload/resize number 3 you will start to feel resistance to chambering caused by the area of swelling just ahead of the belt. If you load an identical beltless case to full pressure and have a normal chamber, there is a good chance that by reload/resize number 3 you will start to feel resistance to chambering caused by that area of swelling even though there is no belt.

The resizing issue that causes greatest stress and reduced case life is high pressure and a little extra, possibly induced headspace, say greater than .004-5" as is common in most cartridges controlled by shoulder headspacing. That forward movement of the case during the firing cycle, caused by the primer ignition thrust, is only half the story. The other half of the story is when the case comes up to full pressure, the forward part of the body and neck momentarily stick to the chamber walls and the case head slams back against the bolt face STRETCHING and THINNING the area of the case just forward of the web. Belted and rimmed cases act differently from beltless cases where the headspace is controlled by the shoulder during the firing cycle.

A different issue can occur if a case has both an adequate headspring type shoulder AND a belt Many reloaders will adjust the sizing die down after a couple of firings when they start to feel chambering resistance THINKING it's shoulder and upper body impingement. The reality is that it is simply the area just in front of the belt that is causing the resistance. So in the attempt to resize enough for ease of chambering they are in fact reducing case life by introducing extra headspace THUS EXTRA STRETCHING during each reloading/firing cycle. They then claim the reduced useful case life is just an "artifact" of the belted design.
Adjust regular sizing die for a belted case the same as for a beltless- just enough to allow free chambering for the shoulder and body of the cartridge. THEN address the issue of the area just in front of the belt either by using a collet die to reduce it enough for free chambering or simply pitch the brass.

If you are using the same cases for different rifles, chances are high each rifle will have a slightly different chamber so will likely require slightly different sizing die adjustment for OPTIMAL sizing. Doesn't matter if the cases are belted or not. Or whether or not you decide to use a collet die or not. Using a regular sizing die by itself or using a regular sizing die along with a collet die is a SEPARATE issue from sharing brass between or among different rifles.

 

[fourfive8]

For belted or rimmed cartridges that are to be used for DG hunting the easiest test for correct sizing after reloading is the "plunk" test. If the belted case also has a shoulder then it'll be up to the reloaded/shooter to determine where the resistance is if the cartridge doesn't go "plunk" to the headspace stop when dropped into a vertical chamber. If a sooted shoulder shows no contact during chambering then the "plunk" failure likely can be attributed to a swell just forward of the belt. A regular sizing die will not touch that area. An ideal sizing would be just up to the shoulder upon chambering and no resistance from anywhere in the body particularly the swell in front of the belt (actually the area of the junction of the case web and case body).

 

[Shootist43]

Fourfive8, you are bringing up some valid points as well and they make sense. I'd like to see some other experienced reloaders chime in on this topic. BTW how many reloadings have you gotten out of your Belted Magnum cases? Do you anneal the necks and shoulders?

 

[fourfive8]

If I keep the pressures reasonable, about 10. I'm a conservative loader so that helps extend brass life. Minimal resizing also helps. For example: I am able to get 2250-2300 with a 400 gr bullet in my 416 Rem Mag with loads that were published as producing about 43-45 kpsi. well under the max standard for the cartridge. The 2275 is the hunting load I settled on. I found the same true with my 450 Watts with 450 and 500 gr bullets. Easy to get 2250 with no pressures signs at all. I am staying at 2250 with the 500 gr in the 450. I am getting about 10 loadings with both of those. I am quite certain I could double that count but no reason to push it since I'm extending the case life by a reasonable amount already. So unless I ding one badly in the press which happens once in a great while... like wrinkling a neck by hitting the edge of a die, I stop at 10.

I just stated working on my latest, a Win 70 375 HH. Hadn't had a 375 in several years so was anxious to get back at it. I easily get 2500 with a couple of different 300 gr bullets. That with accuracy was my objective for the 300 gr and it didn't take 20 rounds total to get there. And again that load shows no pressure signs. Too early to tell on brass life but I would imagine similar to the other two.

I used to shoot a lot of 45-70, 44-90 and 45-110 with both light smokeless and BP. When I was keeping track I think I got well over 60 loadings out of them, especially in good tight single shots... mainly because of the low pressure and minimal sizing.

And after 5 or so reloadings, I anneal the shoulders and necks. Just have to be conservative with the annealing process/temperature and not go too far below the shoulder.

 

[Hummer]

A friend had the same thing happen a couple years ago on a factory rifle in 300 Win Mag. He thought it was the dies and bought two more sets and same problem. He tells me about it at a fire dept meeting one night and I told him to bring it down and his brass. I ran his brass through my dies I have used 30 years and same thing happened. I knew then there was a chamber problem.

I screwed the barrel off, cut off half the threads and rechambered it with my match reamer and all his ammo he had loaded previously now worked just fine in the new chamber.

Now he has to wear out three new sets of dies for same caliber.

I get my reamers from Manson Precision Reamers in the states.