South African Professional Hunter shot

[Countrylife]

What happens to the client when this happens? Hopefully there are consequences other than just sending them home.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I hope he recovers fully & lucky to be alive really !

I have had hunters committing AD's 10 & 10's of times, with holes blown in Blinds, Tents, Dinning Rooms, Roofs, floors, Hunting Vehicles & the ground next to me, even when told multiple times to watch their firearm handling/safety .

Been stabbed in the leg by a Bow Hunter & one of my guiding partners was stuck badly in the back by a Bow Hunter .

It is a very trying job at times !

Sounds like a firebase in a war zone and not a hunting camp? Who are these guys you hunt with?

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

No round chambered until you are ready to shoot. Round temoved if the moment passes. Even this isnt absolute, but it is better.

 

[Vintageguy]

Nearly every safari video I watch has the PH stressing safety then they and the clients throw the gun over their shoulders by the barrels, muzzle forward, so they can look the proper bwana and muzzle everyone around them, SMH.
I don’t care whether you have one in the chamber or not. Most guns that accidentally go off aren’t “loaded” just like most dog bites happen right after the owner says it won’t bite.
I especially like the videos where the client is crawling behind their PH with their muzzle pointing right up his ass.
I am a very laidback guy but you muzzle me with your “unloaded” gun after lecturing me like a child about safety and I’m apt to be a bit prickly. Rant over.

 

[Rubberhead]

Many, maybe most, of the PG and DG videos on Youtube are cringe-worthy because of how the client handles the gun when stalking behind the PH. May of these are recognizable hunters with dozens or more hunts on Youtube. I've always wondered if the PHs ever see these videos. I would think if they ever did they'd take up accounting.

 

[Nyati]

This is very simple, as Kevin said, if you don´t have a round in the chamber, there is no possibility whatsoever of a discharge.

I show my PH the chamber is unloaded, and only load when he tells me so. Until then how I carry my rifle just doesn´t matter one bit.

 

[Randy F]

This is very simple, as Kevin said, if you don´t have a round in the chamber, there is no possibility whatsoever of a discharge.

I show my PH the chamber is unloaded, and only load when he tells me so. Until then how I carry my rifle just doesn´t matter one bit.

Well yes and no. For the majority of us who handle firearms frequently and stay conscious of muzzle position, knowing full well the chamber is empty...this time...maybe it "just doesn't matter one bit". I have no doubt you were 100% safe...but what about the next hunter, and the next. The PH never knows if a client might have thrown one in the chamber when he wasn't looking. He can never be 100% sure.

It was instilled in me the very first time I was handed a shotgun that, no matter what, even if it's disassembled, that muzzle had better always be pointed in a safe direction. Not so much because one might not know what he's doing, but because it forms a strong habit. It becomes just something you always do without thinking. Kind of like muscle memory for your head.

I'm not in anyway saying you aren't safe in what you do. Nor am I lecturing. I'm just saying, respectfully, that it's a great habit to get into because if that muzzle is always pointed in a safe direction, then it doesn't matter one bit if someone left the safety off, forgot there was a round in the chamber, or "it just went off", etc. They will make a fool of themselves if it discharges, but at least nobody is injured or worse.

My 2 cents.

 

[Rubberhead]

Some people thought I was crazy, especially for a gun-nut like myself, but I didn't even let my kids have "toy" guns because in no way, shape or form is a gun a toy. The muzzle of a gun should never, even for the briefest of moments, ever be pointed in the direction of another human whether the human holding the gun thinks it's not loaded or whether the person being pointed at thinks itis loaded or not. That's a hard and fast rule I have and I promise anybody hunting near me will follow that rule 100%. I tell anyone hunting with me to 100% hold me to that same level of responsibility. When my son started hunting with me I made sure he understood that when it comes to gun safety he was an adult too and should speak up if he saw unsafe handling from anyone even the adults. He's now, in my opinion, one of the safest gun handlers I know of.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I agree with Randy as well - if you don't chamber a round AND you never point the muzzle at anybody, that is starting to sound absolute. The only problem that remains is carrying the rifle or double for long periods before action time. This is where the questionable Africa shoulder carry has evolved from. My answer is to use a rifle sling, muzzle skywards. It has never got in the way, and of course you can take it off at zero hour if you want to.

 

[buck wild]

I had a guy shoot the ground 3 ft in front of us while guiding and another very experienced hunter let a round go off in a patio area of the lodge. Both were different scenarios.
The most common ND I see is hunters wanting to make sure their rifles are “safe” by pulling the trigger. I never understood that. That was what happened in the second ND mentioned above. Please don’t do that!!

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I hunt a lot. I am a certified Hunter Education instructor with the State of Alaska. I'm no greenhorn.

That said, I did EVERYTHING my PH said to do, as he said to do it, and he was VERY firm about how things were done. He'd tell me when to chamber a round; he'd tell me when to remove the round. At times, during a stalk, if the terrain was rough and he told me to chamber a round, he'd ask to carry my rifle for short stretches. (I communicated to him at the outset I am careful, but I am blessed with a measure of clumsiness on rough terrain) He checked my rifle each and every time without fail to verify it was empty when putting it in and taking it out of the scabbard on the Land Cruiser. I checked it each time myself, but he always did so too. I had zero problem with that. It's his operation; there is no such thing as too safe. He said he sometimes gets hunters who grumble at him for checking after they check, feeling like he doesn't trust them to know what they're doing. He shared with me stories that have happened to other PH's he knows. Again, I have no issues and no ego where this is concerned. If anything, it imbued in me a bit more respect for him. I would hope that all PHs are as thorough and resolute.

 

[Scott CWO]

Another issue is loading and unloading the magazine all the time. This is also dangerous. I tell my clients to load the magazine and just leave the magazine loaded all week, even in the lodge or camp. This way, everyone knows the rifle magazine is always loaded with the barrel pointed in a safe direction at ALL times. We treat every gun as if it is loaded at all times. In Colorado, it is legal to have a loaded magazine in a vehicle but not a loaded barrel/chamber in a vehicle.

 

[Newboomer]

Muzzle at 90 degrees left from whoever is in front of me until I am on the sticks and as soon as I verify the kill. I use a Safari Sling so my rifle carries muzzle left. Chamber empty until told to load a round. Top off the mag after the shot but leave the chamber empty. That one less round is not going to make much difference in most cases.
Anyone carrying differently goes ahead of me. Unless I know the dude real well, I want him in front.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

I have zero tolerance for unsafe gun handling. In my former life you got crushed for unsafe gun handling and an AD was unforgiveable. No excuses. I did not tolerate it then and won't tolerate it now. I was shocked at all the stuff happens/terrain/nerves/adrenaline/it's dangerous game BS excuses given for these "celebrity" hunters that had an AD and grievously injured someone. If you cannot carry and use a weapon safely for any reason, find another hobby.

 

[WAB]

I have zero tolerance for unsafe gun handling. In my former life you got crushed for unsafe gun handling and an AD was unforgiveable. No excuses. I did not tolerate it then and won't tolerate it now. I was shocked at all the stuff happens/terrain/nerves/adrenaline/it's dangerous game BS excuses given for these "celebrity" hunters that had an AD and grievously injured someone. If you cannot carry and use a weapon safely for any reason, find another hobby.

Totally agree. My boys were safer at 10 than these guys are as adults. I will not hunt with anyone who can’t handle their gun safely!

 

[Nyati]

Well yes and no. For the majority of us who handle firearms frequently and stay conscious of muzzle position, knowing full well the chamber is empty...this time...maybe it "just doesn't matter one bit". I have no doubt you were 100% safe...but what about the next hunter, and the next. The PH never knows if a client might have thrown one in the chamber when he wasn't looking. He can never be 100% sure.

It was instilled in me the very first time I was handed a shotgun that, no matter what, even if it's disassembled, that muzzle had better always be pointed in a safe direction. Not so much because one might not know what he's doing, but because it forms a strong habit. It becomes just something you always do without thinking. Kind of like muscle memory for your head.

I'm not in anyway saying you aren't safe in what you do. Nor am I lecturing. I'm just saying, respectfully, that it's a great habit to get into because if that muzzle is always pointed in a safe direction, then it doesn't matter one bit if someone left the safety off, forgot there was a round in the chamber, or "it just went off", etc. They will make a fool of themselves if it discharges, but at least nobody is injured or worse.

My 2 cents.

Fully agree with you, muzzle should always be pointed in a safe direction, but I believe it is in the PH´s best interest that he makes it certain that there is no bullet in the chamber, until he says so.

 

[MT Griz]

Rule number one when handling a firearm : ALWAYS treat a firearm as if it is loaded. Period enough said.
Rule number two: never point the barrel at anything you don't intend to shoot. Period. also enough said.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Empty chambers wound and kill more people every year than loaded ones. They are all loaded, all the time, even when they aren’t.

 

[Deleted member 40394]

3 negligent discharges in a lifetime is 3 too many. That’s crazy. Out of the hundreds of hunters I have known my whole life I know of 2 negligent discharges. And one wasn’t hunting but in his house handling a gun.
the younger generation though have much higher probability of accidental discharge. I know of several accidents duck hunting and such the last 10 years. Never recalled hearing many accidents with guns much when I was growing up. Glad I hunt with older folks. Lol.

I will add growing up I played cops and robbers and such and knew when it came to a real gun how to handle the firearm. With youth it’s is a several year process to teach them proper gun handling. They need to be in many scenarios and understand what not to ever do.
When I was young I had some friends not so safe with a gun. Got my eardrums rung out a few times. I made sure I correctly instructed them when it happened.
Several key things help me out.
1. I use a sling at all times.
2. I shoot with both eyes open
3. I check to make sure my barrel is clear of obstruction
4. I check my safety constantly
5. I treat ever gun as if loaded and most of the time mine is loaded.
6. When stalking or crawling I either slide the bolt up and out half way or unload the chamber. Still being sure my muzzle is always a safe direction.
Gun safety takes discipline. Attention to detail. And common freaking sense.

 

[Still alive]

My son got his hunter safety card right before he turned ten. I started him off in the living room about gun safety and how to load and unload. Every trip with rifles has always been the same routine. Treat the gun as loaded and remove the rounds/ magazine. Our first time at the range in Africa our PH was very impressed with our protocols on gun safety as it showed. We did this routine every time we walked, stalked and got into the vehicle. I just thought everyone does this?