SOUTH AFRICA: NB Safaris In SA - The Good, The Bad & The Ugly (Hunt Report)

[Neil Barnard]

@Dawg2019 being that this is your first day and you had a good hunt, please do post your own hunt report so we can read it. You can understand why legacy members find it unusual or shall we say 'comical?' when 'new' members pop up for a day or two when posts such as this arrive...

@Neil Barnard thank you for your post. However, in regards to the taxidermy, would you be happy with that work and hang it in your lodge? If I saw them in that condition I would not opt to use that taxidermist. I would suggest going forward and as stated by @Hogpatrol you need to take care of that up front to save business. Those mounts done by the taxidermist and bromer of your request have too many flaws to not correct. That should be absolutely remedied right away by you, the broker, and taxidermist. As I stated, my taxidermist in RSA paid 100% for a ship back, rework, and te ship, all goes covered. Guess what, they will get business again as they truly took care of their customer and my outfitter was involved in the whole process.

I have requested I come and see the damage as it did not appear in the way it does on his photos when I received the photos from the Taxidermy. He did not show willingness for me to come inspect it personally in January? I was just wondering why?

 

[Neil Barnard]

I'd like to hear from @Neil Barnard why Oryx was included in a package when they weren't readily available to hunt? Is it true that an 8 hour drive was the option given to the client?

If @gator mentioned how important the Oryx was to him before the hunt it seems a lack of availability should have been mentioned. And even if not why was the animal included in the package if huntable numbers aren't available on the farm?

The devil is truly in the details and there still appear to be some missing.

Here I think we need to look in communication. I am sure I had mentioned to the Agent that we might not have Gemsbok available at the time of the hunt. Anyway this is a standard problem in the Waterburgs and we normally explain this to all clients. Look at some of the positive reviews and you will see in their counter answer they make mention of it. The package was suggested by the agent as one I should try and match. Once again the reason I say the Devil is in the details... I would like to try and avoid a spitting match. But if I get called unfairly, I am going to push back. The positive reviews and clients chiming in that normally would not... are clients that would like to set things more in to the line of truth. Royal27, I am a very normal happy guy. We run a good show and I had requested I come visit Jeff in January and personally inspect his trophies before making a decision on how to remedy something I do not totally feel comfortable with. The photos I have differ from what he is sharing and I would just like to come see for my self. I have never been someone that will not stand for what I need to do. Have a great day!

 

[Royal27]

Here I think we need to look in communication. I am sure I had mentioned to the Agent that we might not have Gemsbok available at the time of the hunt. Anyway this is a standard problem in the Waterburgs and we normally explain this to all clients. Look at some of the positive reviews and you will see in their counter answer they make mention of it. The package was suggested by the agent as one I should try and match. Once again the reason I say the Devil is in the details...

So you sold a client a package that you knew you likely couldn't support even at the time you sold it. Interesting....

 

[Hogpatrol]

The more I read, the more I'm convinced the First Law of Holes is applicable here.

 

[IvW]

PHASA will not take sides and will not resolve issues on behalf of clients or outfitters, they may just make recommendations.

One on one resolving with the client is always the best option, having a "agent" often compounds the problem due to "he said I said" etc.

Clearly the mounts have serious hair slippage due to incorrect field treatment...

If the client had a Gemsbuck as his number one animal that should have been provided for on the safari if it was booked as such before the safari started....

 

[Deleted member 15212]

Funny thing about pointing fingers...

Turn your hand around and there are three fingers pointing back at yourself.

 

[Deleted member 15212]

Well... if that's how it's going to be..

How about proof of sending in the goons?

 

[Deleted member 15212]

Hi Jeff, I have not stopped communicating and it is never in my nature to walk away from a problem. I will gladly deal with the problems at hand if they need dealing with. I just feel that making a report on a subject that we could have handled by using PHASA as our 3rd party would have been the best way to go. I had even suggested I come and have a personal look at your Trophies in January and determine what is best. You did not take me up on this and just jumped onto bad mouthing me? I am also looking into your fathers problem. It has been 16days since I replied to him because I have been investigating. He was cc’d in on all our communications and I am sure he could see I wasn’t running away.

The clients that hunted in the same week as you did, have also stated that they received their trophies in great order! All very happy with them...

What I think your missing here is that I feel unfairly treated. Let’s handle it according to a procedure. Lay a complaint with PHASA. They investigate, I will personally come visit your house in January and we can settle the right way. Jumping to bad mouthing I think is less productive?

Correct me if in wrong and i believe Jeff will in fact show order of events to be true... but did you not only email him back in regards to filing with PHASA after he told you about this whole article on the africahunting page?

Which was also after you had given the run around and some bogus answers.

We're not retarded Neil. I have skinned and fleshed over 500 animals, easily! I'll be fleshing a full caribou skin this afternoon! I know what proper care is needed on skins.

We dont have an agenda. We're not schemers!

And let's stop with the petty off topic nonsense. Its irrelevant and tacky.

Thanks for coming in today.

 

[Royal27]

PHASA will not take sides and will not resolve issues on behalf of clients or outfitters, they may just make recommendations.[/B]

One on one resolving with the client is always the best option, having a "agent" often compounds the problem due to "he said I said" etc.

Clearly the mounts have serious hair slippage due to incorrect field treatment...

If the client had a Gemsbuck as his number one animal that should have been provided for on the safari if it was booked as such before the safari started....

For the newbies who read this thread.....

The highlighted is something you should all know. @PHASA does not provide "third party arbitration." And certainly not binding arbitration. They MAY suggest something but most likely not, nor does an outfitter have to follow any suggestion that PHASA may make.

I also think it's worth pointing out that in a case such as this PHASA is hardly a third party as the member outfitter is directly affiliated with PHASA while the client is not.

 

[IvW]

For the newbies who read this thread.....

The highlighted is something you should all know. @PHASA does not provide "third party arbitration." And certainly not binding arbitration. They MAY suggest something but most likely not, nor does an outfitter have to follow any suggestion that PHASA may make.

I also think it's worth pointing out that in a case such as this PHASA is hardly a third party as the member outfitter is directly affiliated with PHASA while the client is not.

What he said....

I had a case with Rhino poaching as well as Leopard poaching by a PHASA member nothing was done no disciplinary action nada niks nothing, he eventually got expelled after 2 years when found guilty by an American court by the way...

They have no teeth or say in anything just another organization....

Yes by all means report the dispute to them so that they are aware but do not expect any arbitration or results from that side...

 

[Neil Barnard]

What he said....

I had a case with Rhino poaching as well as Leopard poaching by a PHASA member nothing was done no disciplinary action nada niks nothing, he eventually got expelled after 2 years when found guilty by an American court by the way...

They have no teeth or say in anything just another organization....

Yes by all means report the dispute to them so that they are aware but do not expect any arbitration or results from that side...

My suggestion is based on the fact that I will adhere to them(PHASA) if they say I am in debt to Jeff. I will pay him his money or give him what he deserves.
If I am wrong, that’s fine. I will sort and do what is right.

 

[Neil Barnard]

PHASA will not take sides and will not resolve issues on behalf of clients or outfitters, they may just make recommendations.

One on one resolving with the client is always the best option, having a "agent" often compounds the problem due to "he said I said" etc.

Clearly the mounts have serious hair slippage due to incorrect field treatment...

If the client had a Gemsbuck as his number one animal that should have been provided for on the safari if it was booked as such before the safari started....

ex

For the newbies who read this thread.....

The highlighted is something you should all know. @PHASA does not provide "third party arbitration." And certainly not binding arbitration. They MAY suggest something but most likely not, nor does an outfitter have to follow any suggestion that PHASA may make.

I also think it's worth pointing out that in a case such as this PHASA is hardly a third party as the member outfitter is directly affiliated with PHASA while the client is not.

suggest a better 3rd party please.

 

[IvW]

My suggestion is based on the fact that I will adhere to them(PHASA) if they say I am in debt to Jeff. I will pay him his money or give him what he deserves.
If I am wrong, that’s fine. I will sort and do what is right.

And you as an outfitter dealing with international clients who pay you cannot resolve this issue and do what is right???

 

[IvW]

ex

suggest a better 3rd party please.

EX what?

Better 3rd party would be a lawyer...

 

[Neil Barnard]

Well... if that's how it's going to be..

How about proof of sending in the goons?
View attachment 303034View attachment 303035View attachment 303036View attachment 303037

The people you are calling “goons” are my clients. They are wonderful people that have all hunted with me lately. They can all speak for them selves and give their experience. Please do not disrespect good people. I never new recruiting people to back you up when you are in your opinion being treated unfairly was against the law. I did not ask them to say anything untrue or stretch any truths. Just give your experience, that is all.
In our discussions I had suggested to Jeff I will personally come see his trophies and that PHASA could arbitrate. If he felt PHASA was not up for the job, we could pick someone else that is knowledge’d and not bias.
I state once again. It was not until this client requested money and I suggested we get a 3rd party opinion that he decided to bad mouth me. I respect PHASA and know they will do the right thing. But if you need another party? SCI or some other org, that will be fine. I will gladly work with you on setting anything straight as long as it is done so fairly.
I do not wish to be crucifies if not deserved.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Any third party entering in to this is just a stalling tactic. Relative to your satisfied clients posting here, they are immaterial to the discussion. Why don't you just pay the guy eight hundred bucks and move on. You've already done more damage to your reputation than that amount is worth. Good grief man, we're not talking elephant trophy dollars here. Eight hundred bucks is chump change. You may be an experienced PH, but as a businessman you have got a lot to learn.
You can start by stating on here that you are sending him the refund. It might help you salvage some semblance of credibility for your business practices.

 

[Neil Barnard]

And you as an outfitter dealing with international clients who pay you cannot resolve this issue and do what is right???

Hi IvW, the one moment everything was fine and then the next it was all wrong in our communications.. I did not wish to get in a spitting match and therefor suggested we settle it this way. Also I had suggested I come and visit him in January and personally look his mounts over. This way we could get to a solution fairly. Him just informing me that there is problems and sending photos that I am not totally comfortable with and demanding retribution of his own number I was not comfortable with... I am not running from this, I just want a fair trial.

 

[Neil Barnard]

Any third party entering in to this is just a stalling tactic. Relative to your satisfied clients posting here, they are immaterial to the discussion. Why don't you just pay the guy eight hundred bucks and move on. You've already done more damage to your reputation than that amount is worth. Good grief man, we're not talking elephant trophy dollars here. Eight hundred bucks is chump change. You may be an experienced PH, but as a businessman you have got a lot to learn.

Thank you for the good advice.

 

[Hogpatrol]

All this thread is saying is if I hunt with you and have a problem, you're going to disagree and fight me for any redress.

 

[Deleted member 15212]

Hi IvW, the one moment everything was fine and then the next it was all wrong in our communications.. I did not wish to get in a spitting match and therefor suggested we settle it this way. Also I had suggested I come and visit him in January and personally look his mounts over. This way we could get to a solution fairly. Him just informing me that there is problems and sending photos that I am not totally comfortable with and demanding retribution of his own number I was not comfortable with... I am not running from this, I just want a fair trial.

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