SOUTH AFRICA: Kuche Safaris

[VonJager]

Of all the outfitters, guides, farms and hunters in Africa, what is it about the Kuche operation that is so polarizing? The fervor displayed by some of the defenders of Kuche is out of place. This level of intensity was also on display in a previous thread regarding the Kuche experience.

For the record, I've been to Kuche one time this past June as an observer accompanying 3 hunters.
The area described here is in Limpopo, quite close to the Limpopo River and Botswana.

I've previously detailed my experiences at the Kuche lodge however I did not discuss the hunting aspect of the trip. This was not my first time in Africa however it was my first visit to the Limpopo area.
Regarding the actual hunting I must say that both of the PH's we hunted with were competent and professional, and I would be happy to hunt with either Marco or Tjaart anywhere else in Africa.

The actual on the ground, rifle in hand, hunting ranged from the sublime to the absurd...

The hunting of the 3 included animals that a client has "won" at a fundraiser auction, or in our case the "Free Safari" when you buy a rifle takes place the first morning of your safari. As you leave the gate you'll enter what is kindly called a fenced hunting area, others might see it as a P*****g Zoo. This allows the collection of the "free animals" in a timely and efficient manner. Once the package animals are collected, it's time to move on to elected species.

My companions all collected additional animals and the hunting for most was uneventful.
Waterbuck hunting was the exception however.
We traveled to a somewhat run down, neglected farm whose northern boundary was the Limpopo River itself. Our hunt started at the western end of the farm boundary and we walked the length of the farm along the river. At first I was curious why the PH was glassing across the river into Botswana.....
It became apparent very quickly, that's where the waterbuck are! Genuine trophies...
There's a story involving wading a river with real croc's in it but it ends well.
Sublime to absurd

The most interesting thing in this whole thread is the defense.

We don't doubt some hunters at Kuche had an amazing experience. But you keep shit talking the other hunters who did not have the same experience.

Very telling.

I have not hunted with Kuche, but I know a group of 3 who did, and they had a good time, but would not go back. They did not go into more details and I did not press for them.

 

[wesheltonj]

. . . The hunting of the 3 included animals that a client has "won" at a fundraiser auction, or in our case the "Free Safari" when you buy a rifle takes place the first morning of your safari. As you leave the gate you'll enter what is kindly called a fenced hunting area, others might see it as a P*****g Zoo. This allows the collection of the "free animals" in a timely and efficient manner. Once the package animals are collected, it's time to move on to elected species. . .

Wow, just wow. IMO a canned plains game hunt.

 

[Deepfork]

The most interesting thing in this whole thread is the defense.

We don't doubt some hunters at Kuche had an amazing experience. But you keep shit talking the other hunters who did not have the same experience.

Very telling.

I have not hunted with Kuche, but I know a group of 3 who did, and they had a good time, but would not go back. They did not go into more details and I did not press for them.

Hmmmm, I think you are mistaken here. I have been attacked, or at least insulted on a personel level for defending Kuche. The shit talking (your words) has not been between anyone defending Kuche and those who have hunted with them and had a complaint based on real experience. Its between those who have had a good experience with Kuche and members here who have strong negative opinions of Kuche but have not hunted with them.

 

[Daisy]

The most interesting thing in this whole thread is the defense.

We don't doubt some hunters at Kuche had an amazing experience. But you keep shit talking the other hunters who did not have the same experience.

Very telling.

I have not hunted with Kuche, but I know a group of 3 who did, and they had a good time, but would not go back. They did not go into more details and I did not press for them.

Pleas show me where I shit talks anyone’s experience.

Don’t just say inflammatory things. Show them.

 

[VonJager]

Pleas show me where I shit talks anyone’s experience.

Don’t just say inflammatory things. Show them.

I did not link or single you out. It is 12 pages, they are already shown, just read the thread. Several people who have been there complained or as denvir tire did just commented on their experience, and multiple people dismiss their complaints and comments, or say, "well I had a great time so it is impossible that anyone else could have had a bad time."

Just think for a moment how crazy that is.

If someone came on here with any of the 4 outfits I have hunted with and had complaints I could see myself saying sorry you had that experience, I had a good time, what exactly happened that you didn't enjoy, or why are you unsatisfied?

Instead they get called Ninja keyboard warriors.

Where are you apologizing for your newfound friends for their treatment of jball792?

Instead it is denial of his experience and puffed chests of yours. If you are free to post, which you are, why isn't he?

And as to the subject of people who have not directly hunted with Kuche. Do you always have to do something to have a decent understanding? Or are you capable of coming to reasonable conclusions based on a volume of evidence?

With wide ranging reports from hunters from amazing to so-so, to terrible, and eager to talk when he is owed money, but then terrible at communication when it comes to client needs like taxidermy shipping, I think it is safe to say book at your own risk, and bring a deep and pricey wish list for the best results.

YMMV

 

[Deepfork]

"well I had a great time so it is impossible that anyone else could have had a bad time."

No body said this

 

[Deepfork]

"Where are you apologizing for your newfound friends for their treatment of jball792?"

And sorry...this statement makes no sense, no one mistreated jball792. He did consistently attacked anyone who said they had a good experience. I reread this whole thread trying to figure out what you are referring too, its not there.

 

[revturbo9967]

No body said this

This is being heavily implied throughout this thread.

There were a lot of things I didn’t like about my last hunt in Zim and and I chose not to speak publicly about it. I must have 70 private messages asking me about my experience with quite a few in heavy denial. Most, if not all who were somewhat arguing with me were those who have not hunted with the outfit, or had deposits sent and already booked. The few I spoke to who already hunted there shared similar feelings or had a good hunt but didn’t step on how I felt. They admitted how much of the negativity of an experience gets left out of these hunt reports, due to what we are seeing in this thread. I’m glad I don’t say anything publicly or I’m sure I would have openly been chastised by past hunters, even if they had similar feelings.

 

[Daisy]

I did not link or single you out. It is 12 pages, they are already shown, just read the thread. Several people who have been there complained or as denvir tire did just commented on their experience, and multiple people dismiss their complaints and comments, or say, "well I had a great time so it is impossible that anyone else could have had a bad time."

Just think for a moment how crazy that is.

If someone came on here with any of the 4 outfits I have hunted with and had complaints I could see myself saying sorry you had that experience, I had a good time, what exactly happened that you didn't enjoy, or why are you unsatisfied?

Instead they get called Ninja keyboard warriors.

Where are you apologizing for your newfound friends for their treatment of jball792?

Instead it is denial of his experience and puffed chests of yours. If you are free to post, which you are, why isn't he?

And as to the subject of people who have not directly hunted with Kuche. Do you always have to do something to have a decent understanding? Or are you capable of coming to reasonable conclusions based on a volume of evidence?

With wide ranging reports from hunters from amazing to so-so, to terrible, and eager to talk when he is owed money, but then terrible at communication when it comes to client needs like taxidermy shipping, I think it is safe to say book at your own risk, and bring a deep and pricey wish list for the best results.

YMMV

I will tell you. The most vitriol by far has come from people not involved bashing Kuche. Read back through and flag inflammatory posts and see which side they fall on.

If a random newer poster came on and wrote 9-10 posts bashing Dalton and York everyone would run to their aid. It happened not that long ago with the old PH trying to win their region. People were falling over themselves to take up for them at every turn. (I want to go hunt with them, looks awesome) but the same people bashing Kuche were there singing their praises.

It’s because they had positive experiences with D&Y. Same as the people that had positive experiences with Kuche.

Having a good idea of what is going on? Sure. That’s a very reasonable approach. “This is fact because I say it?” That has only come from the bash Kuche side that I have seen.

 

[Daisy]

And sorry...this statement makes no sense, no one mistreated jball792. He did consistently attacked anyone who said they had a good experience. I reread this whole thread trying to figure out what you are referring too, its not there.

It’s just not there. If people can’t honestly look and not make inferences then it’s impossible to talk about.

Name this for what it is. A lot of people here think large hunting organizations are bad and small boutique ones are good. That’s fine, but to constantly come in to threads and bash Kuche and people that had a good experience there gets old.

 

[VonJager]

When I kill another cape buffalo in South Africa, I’ll try to remember it isn’t up to your standards.

While you were busy complaining here, I was hunting at Kuche with a dozen people who had wonderful hunts.

My point is I had a great time. There is nothing boastful about my picture or sub par about my experience.

You should get over yourself.

The Waterbuck was taken on a 30000 acre property covered with thick bush. A first rate experiece in every way. It would be delusional to think otherwise.

But if it’s not up to someone’s standards they are free to go somewhere else, but to attack my experiences or the hunts of other people says more about your character and wisdom than mine.

You guys are a bunch of insufferable pricks hiding anonymously behind your keyboard.

Yeah. They don’t want to talk about African hunting. They want to talk about their experience ad nauseam but down talk others experience.

Someone trying to talk down the credentials of someone with more hunts, more exposure shows this place is just an echo chamber of the same old same old.

Everyone that I personally know who has hunted with Kuche had a good experience.

Everyone that I talked to when I was there had a good experience.

But Kuche is a large operation that gives a lot of hunts to charities.

So it is inevitable that a few people in the internet age will complain about something.

And several people saying negative things have never been there.

Funny how some people howl when challenged in any way.

 

[revturbo9967]

I will tell you. The most vitriol by far has come from people not involved bashing Kuche. Read back through and flag inflammatory posts and see which side they fall on.

If a random newer poster came on and wrote 9-10 posts bashing Dalton and York everyone would run to their aid. It happened not that long ago with the old PH trying to win their region. People were falling over themselves to take up for them at every turn. (I want to go hunt with them, looks awesome) but the same people bashing Kuche were there singing their praises.

It’s because they had positive experiences with D&Y. Same as the people that had positive experiences with Kuche.

Having a good idea of what is going on? Sure. That’s a very reasonable approach. “This is fact because I say it?” That has only come from the bash Kuche side that I have seen.

I know for a fact that people sing praise for an outfit even if they may have had a negative view on. They don’t want to look like they made a mistake or spent a ton of money on a poor experience. I have an inbox full of messages from past hunters agreeing with my views about an outfit they hunted with yet posted a positive hunting report. They just left out what they didn’t like. I don’t blame them for doing that, you will get run up the flag poll if you say something negative about an operation in which others have hunted with. If you had a great time , that is great, but nobody should be discredited if they have a negative opinion.

 

[Deepfork]

I know for a fact that people sing praise for an outfit even if they may have had a negative view on. They don’t want to look like they made a mistake or spent a ton of money on a poor experience. I have an inbox full of messages from past hunters agreeing with my views about an outfit they hunted with yet posted a positive hunting report. They just left out what they didn’t like. I don’t blame them for doing that, you will get run up the flag poll if you say something negative about an operation in which others have hunted with. If you had a great time , that is great, but nobody should be discredited if they have a negative opinion.

The opposite is generally true. People with a gripe are always more likely to look for an audience.

 

[Daisy]

I know for a fact that people sing praise for an outfit even if they may have had a negative view on. They don’t want to look like they made a mistake or spent a ton of money on a poor experience. I have an inbox full of messages from past hunters agreeing with my views about an outfit they hunted with yet posted a positive hunting report. They just left out what they didn’t like. I don’t blame them for doing that, you will get run up the flag poll if you say something negative about an operation in which others have hunted with. If you had a great time , that is great, but nobody should be discredited if they have a negative opinion.

Agree with all. Great post

 

[Daisy]

Also, I get inbox messages from people on other side that are afraid of speaking something that goes against the herd.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I haven't hunted with Kuche but I know from looking at the photos of the operation I don't want to. Too many clients. I don't go in for the deer hunting camp scene either. But that's just me. As for the "deals": sometimes getting something for nothing turns out to be nothing. Those 2-for-1 Gunbroker deals smelled pretty bad to me. I could never stomach the crowd that hangs out at Ducks Unlimited banquets or SCI shows ... because I can't stomach crowds in any venue. Anyway, I could never see myself shooting the dice on a safari auction. Just the airline ticket alone is risking a huge cash outlay. I'll do my homework before picking an outfitter. Bottom line: you shoot the dice on a blind safari deal, you shouldn't complain when it goes south. Well, not bitterly anyway. Accept that you gambled and lost. It happens.

 

[jball792]

Our taxidermy has finally arrived and we are beyond frustrated with our results. To start, the front of this kudu looks like a body shop science experiment.

 

[Scott CWO]

L

Our taxidermy has finally arrived and we are beyond frustrated with our results. To start, the front of this kudu looks like a body shop science experiment. View attachment 576339

Looks like some hair slipped and they painted it to try to make it less noticeable. Can’t tell from your photo where it is on the mount. Below the ear? Zoom out.

 

[Scott CWO]

Applies to a lot of people on this thread. Leave it alone. To each his own. People can hunt where they want. Kuche not for me but if you go there, I couldn’t give a damn and happy for you.