SOUTH AFRICA: KoringKoppie Hunting Safaris *Warning* Stay Away

[375Fox]

375 going too far on the “auction hunt is bad” direction. I would say most of the big names on this board have done an auctioned hunt.

Not doing his research, definitely on the OP. But auctioned hunts can be a great way to hunt Africa

I did not say all auction hunts are bad. I said they have a precedent of more unhappy hunters. The likelihood of a hunt that doesn’t meet expectations is higher with an auction hunt than a hunt you planned and paid for. You can reread my posts.

 

[375Fox]

Kuche has many happy and return clients. Most, not all of the bashing here is by members who strongly disagree with their business model as they perceive it and had no direct experience with Kuche. There are multiple examples on Africa Hunting where some one posts about a great hunt they had with Kuche and it turns into a bash fest from members who have never hunted with them.

You are not remembering history correctly. No one made negative comments on a positive report. There were negative reports and threads created asking about kuche. You did not like the issues raised because it makes you question your experience there.

 

[Daisy]

Except there is a record of all your IP addresses and they are not really random. Nothing more suspicious than IP's bouncing all over the place.

The three newbies are not doing anything suspect from my desk view.

Except they all posted in italics. Thats not a coincidence.

 

[dchum]

Most? That’s a bit of a stretch. I’ve taken 3 hunting and or fishing auctions and all have been top notch? What are you batting on yours?

Because of the volume you will definitely see more negative reviews. Just how that works.

Auction hunts are less volume than regular hunts so im not understanding your points.

And that less volume of auction hunts having bad endings is higher percentage. Just a fact

 

[Daisy]

Auction hunts are less volume than regular hunts so im not understanding your points.

And that less volume of auction hunts having bad endings is higher percentage. Just a fact

Facts are a funny thing. You stating doesn’t make it so.

Are you saying an operation like Kuche has given away fewer auction hunts than most other outfitters provide total? You would be wrong on that my friend.

Just reread my post and it sounds confusing.

A large organization like Kuche provides more auction hunts than “most” other organizations provide in total hunts.

 

[375Fox]

Facts are a funny thing. You stating doesn’t make it so.

Are you saying an operation like Kuche has given away fewer auction hunts than most other outfitters provide total? You would be wrong on that my friend.

Just reread my post and it sounds confusing.

A large organization like Kuche provides more auction hunts than “most” other organizations provide in total hunts.

More of a marketing strategy than a true donation auction hunt. This thread isn’t about kuche.

 

[Daisy]

More of a marketing strategy than a true donation auction hunt. This thread isn’t about kuche.

Agree it’s not. But you have comments several times on the dangers of auction hunts. It’s important that all sides of auction hunts are presented, including the many good sides. Of course there are some negative sides too!

 

[Daisy]

More of a marketing strategy than a true donation auction hunt. This thread isn’t about kuche.

Maybe. I’ve talked to the owner personally about it. So I may have a deeper insight on the motivations.

 

[Deepfork]

You are not remembering history correctly. No one made negative comments on a positive report. There were negative reports and threads created asking about kuche. You did not like the issues raised because it makes you question your experience there.

I think you are correct the positive report threads about Kuche were left alone.

I never questioned issues raised by anyone who had actual experience with Kuche. I had a great experience with Kuche. I took some incredible trophies with them. They were real hunts. You and a few others refuse to accept this is possible. Save the psychoanalysis for yourself.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Kuche has many happy and return clients. Most, not all of the bashing here is by members who strongly disagree with their business model as they perceive it and had no direct experience with Kuche. There are multiple examples on Africa Hunting where some one posts about a great hunt they had with Kuche and it turns into a bash fest from members who have never hunted with them.

My post wasn’t bashing Kuche. I was just citing examples of other threads where there were differing views and/or respondents asking for outfitter input and why we might not have seen a response from the outfitter.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Auction hunts are less volume than regular hunts so im not understanding your points.

And that less volume of auction hunts having bad endings is higher percentage. Just a fact

I’m speculating but what I believe he’s trying to say is a business built upon the model of a higher volume of clients solicited mainly from auction donations will likely have a higher percentage of unhappy customers than say an operation like CMS that offers individual safaris catered to a specific hunter and might only donate a single hunt or two each year. I only point out CMS because I know a Tuskless Hunt with them was just auctioned off over the weekend but they’re not at every DU, NRA, RMEF, NWTF type event each individual chapter hosts.

 

[Deepfork]

I’m speculating but what I believe he’s trying to say is a business built upon the model of a higher volume of clients solicited mainly from auction donations will likely have a higher percentage of unhappy customers than say an operation like CMS that offers individual safaris catered to a specific hunter and might only donate a single hunt or two each year. I only point out CMS because I know a Tuskless Hunt with them was just auctioned off over the weekend but they’re not at every DU, NRA, RMEF, NWTF type event each individual chapter hosts.

Yep, I'm not even sure Kuche has higher percentage of unhappy customers. The volume, which is what some here dislike means they are going to have more happy and yes unhappy clients.

 

[sureshot375]

I’m speculating but what I believe he’s trying to say is a business built upon the model of a higher volume of clients solicited mainly from auction donations will likely have a higher percentage of unhappy customers than say an operation like CMS that offers individual safaris catered to a specific hunter and might only donate a single hunt or two each year. I only point out CMS because I know a Tuskless Hunt with them was just auctioned off over the weekend but they’re not at every DU, NRA, RMEF, NWTF type event each individual chapter hosts.

An auction hunt from the SCI or DSC national convention is a very different proposition than the outfitter who is "donating" hunts to every local Du, NWTF, etc.

One is a legitimate donation, the other is a marketing model designed to get new unsophisticated clients in camp and upsell.

I don't know that the outfitter here has a mass "donation" business model.

I have been pretty vocal in this thread strongly questioning the practices of the outfitter and also calling out the client on his BS. At this point the value of my time devoted to this issue exceeds the $750.00 paid for the donated hunt.

This whole thing has been bad for everyone involved. The outfitter has been called out publicly by a client who paid $750.00 for a giraffe hunt. Some of the criticism of the outfitter seems to be unwarranted and comes from an unreasonable client who has poor communication skills. On the flip side sounds like the outfitter could have handled things better. I gave a pretty detailed breakdown of the legit concerns as I see them from the one side of events known to us. Sounds like there is blame to go around. It's kind of shame this couldn't have been handled between the interested parties. I kind of regret weighing in at all, but hell it's the internet.

If auctioned hunts are selling for 1/6th of their value, then why are we doing that? Maybe it's time to look for a different model. Here the outfitter would have clearly been better off just stroking a check for $750.00. The bargain prices attract undesirable clients, and take advantage of the donating outfitter.

What if we had a model where outfitter signed up to donate certain trophy fees from existing clients to a particular organization? Instead of buying an auction hunt the outfitter says hey, add a blue wildebeest for 1k and all proceeds go to PHSA. The hunter and outfitter could get recognition in the magazine, website, or whatever.

 

[sureshot375]

Yep, I'm not even sure Kuche has higher percentage of unhappy customers. The volume, which is what some here dislike means they are going to have more happy and yes unhappy clients.

I think Kuche doesn't have a higher percentage of unsatisfied clients because a lot of their clientele doesn't know any better.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Yep, I'm not even sure Kuche has higher percentage of unhappy customers. The volume, which is what some here dislike means they are going to have more happy and yes unhappy clients.

I personally know 10-15 hunters who’ve hunted with Kuche over the years that wouldn’t recommend them and none have a post about it here on AH for one reason or another. Most were 1st time African hunters. I know one hunter who loved them after his 1st auction hunt and rebooked at full price or whatever package Kuche gave him for a couple years later but said the 2nd trip was vastly different from his first and wouldn’t recommend them. Their stories aren’t mine to share so I’ll refrain, but I believe several will eventually get posted and I might start contacting them suggesting they join and post if that’d makes you happier. I know @375Fox and a slew of other members would love it.

Once again my comment (up until now) wasn’t saying anything bad about Kuche (or any other outfitter). I was pointing out that in other Hunter’s bad reviews or in some other hot topic threads no one has demanded the outfitter respond like they have in this thread and many are ignoring or oblivious to a potential reason they might not be responding.

 

[Doubleplay]

I think Kuche doesn't have a higher percentage of unsatisfied clients because a lot of their clientele doesn't know any better.

Agreed.
If I read a report of someone who went to Africa first time I take it with a grain of salt regardless who the outfitter is.
Same for the hunter goes to Africa multiple times but sticks with the same outfit.
What's the yardstick?
You don't know what you don't know.
I've been to Africa multiple times and just spent 2 months there between Zim and RSA but I'm still learning and not only about hunting.....

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I think Kuche doesn't have a higher percentage of unsatisfied clients because a lot of their clientele don't know any better.

So what? The Borneal tribesmen can't be happy living in a small hunter gatherer community because he doesn't know what it's like to live in a rat race American suburb? He doesn't know he'd be happier so he shouldn't be satisfied living a primitive existence. Doesn't matter if he really is satisfied with his life. Missionary logic.

 

[Moe324]

An auction hunt from the SCI or DSC national convention is a very different proposition than the outfitter who is "donating" hunts to every local Du, NWTF, etc.

One is a legitimate donation, the other is a marketing model designed to get new unsophisticated clients in camp and upsell.

I don't know that the outfitter here has a mass "donation" business model.

I have been pretty vocal in this thread strongly questioning the practices of the outfitter and also calling out the client on his BS. At this point the value of my time devoted to this issue exceeds the $750.00 paid for the donated hunt.

This whole thing has been bad for everyone involved. The outfitter has been called out publicly by a client who paid $750.00 for a giraffe hunt. Some of the criticism of the outfitter seems to be unwarranted and comes from an unreasonable client who has poor communication skills. On the flip side sounds like the outfitter could have handled things better. I gave a pretty detailed breakdown of the legit concerns as I see them from the one side of events known to us. Sounds like there is blame to go around. It's kind of shame this couldn't have been handled between the interested parties. I kind of regret weighing in at all, but hell it's the internet.

If auctioned hunts are selling for 1/6th of their value, then why are we doing that? Maybe it's time to look for a different model. Here the outfitter would have clearly been better off just stroking a check for $750.00. The bargain prices attract undesirable clients, and take advantage of the donating outfitter.

What if we had a model where outfitter signed up to donate certain trophy fees from existing clients to a particular organization? Instead of buying an auction hunt the outfitter says hey, add a blue wildebeest for 1k and all proceeds go to PHSA. The hunter and outfitter could get recognition in the magazine, website, or whatever.

Yes I bought the hunt at auction. I didn't control the sale price. That was the starting bid. You post says I was taking advantage of the outfitter. I have said multiple times I wasn't going for just the donated animal. I added a day for me and my observer, had list of animals I would take and pay the trophy fees for, rented guns at $50 a day, paid $5 for each bullet, and was going to have the outfitters wife mount atleast 3 birds. So there was money being made by him. Ya its not the same as a family of 4 coming and hunting 5 animals each. But it definitely wasn't me taking advantage of his donation.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

An auction hunt from the SCI or DSC national convention is a very different proposition than the outfitter who is "donating" hunts to every local Du, NWTF, etc.

One is a legitimate donation, the other is a marketing model designed to get new unsophisticated clients in camp and upsell.

I don't know that the outfitter here has a mass "donation" business model.

I have been pretty vocal in this thread strongly questioning the practices of the outfitter and also calling out the client on his BS. At this point the value of my time devoted to this issue exceeds the $750.00 paid for the donated hunt.

This whole thing has been bad for everyone involved. The outfitter has been called out publicly by a client who paid $750.00 for a giraffe hunt. Some of the criticism of the outfitter seems to be unwarranted and comes from an unreasonable client who has poor communication skills. On the flip side sounds like the outfitter could have handled things better. I gave a pretty detailed breakdown of the legit concerns as I see them from the one side of events known to us. Sounds like there is blame to go around. It's kind of shame this couldn't have been handled between the interested parties. I kind of regret weighing in at all, but hell it's the internet.

If auctioned hunts are selling for 1/6th of their value, then why are we doing that? Maybe it's time to look for a different model. Here the outfitter would have clearly been better off just stroking a check for $750.00. The bargain prices attract undesirable clients, and take advantage of the donating outfitter.

What if we had a model where outfitter signed up to donate certain trophy fees from existing clients to a particular organization? Instead of buying an auction hunt the outfitter says hey, add a blue wildebeest for 1k and all proceeds go to PHSA. The hunter and outfitter could get recognition in the magazine, website, or whatever.

We have nearly identical views.

I don’t fault a potential donation business model. After all loss leaders and sales are two of the most impactful ways to drive sales. Can it be viewed as predatory? Sure, but so can’t the car dealerships, tattoo parlors, strip clubs, and pawn shops outside the gates of military bases. So can’t the used car dealers and check cashing shops in low income neighborhoods, but that’s capitalism. I learned while dealing with 18 and 19yo soldiers, then college students, and finally factories in China you need to be extremely direct, very precise, and almost overly explicit in your directions AND expectations or something will be screwed up, and if you do all three it’s still very possible Murphy gets involved.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Agreed.
If I read a report of someone who went to Africa first time I take it with a grain of salt regardless who the outfitter is.
Same for the hunter goes to Africa multiple times but sticks with the same outfit.
What's the yardstick?
You don't know what you don't know.
I've been to Africa multiple times and just spent 2 months there between Zim and RSA but I'm still learning and not only about hunting.....

For some of us yardsticks and record books aren't important. If I have a good time hunting at my first safari outfit, why shouldn't I go back? A good time is a good time. Sure, I can roll the dice with a different outfitter. Maybe I'll hit the jackpot and have a better time. Or maybe it will be a shitshow (see what happened to the OP!). My outfitter worked hard to get my return business. Instead I should just tell him, "Sorry, I'm going to try somewhere else to see if I can have a better time." Just burned that bridge! Maybe it won't matter to him. But I tend to live by the Golden Rule. It would matter to me if I was running the business. So it matters to me as a client. But hey, that's just me. Everyone knows I'm such a jerk.