Soon to be expired 4457 forms

[MMAL]

I believe we are conflating two different issues. The first is in what year did you get the 4457 actually filled out and approved. I have never had a problem and traveled last year with a 4457 filled out and signed years earlier. The second is the "expiration date" on the form which as correctly stated, the SA gov't takes as an expiration of the ownership or validity of the form. All of my 4457's have no expiration date, I use Adobe to white it out. If it is not there they can not and have not ever questioned it in three trips. If you are worried at all, use rifle permits and send the information over early to them. They will let you know if there is a problem prior to leaving for Africa and you can resolve it.

 

[Spooksar]

A little side story as most know Canada used to have a “long gun registry” a couple years after it was dropped, one of the ladies at the SAPs office asked me for my registration to which I answered, we no longer register guns in Canada, we tried that and it didn’t work, now we are trying to register the criminals. The look on her face was priceless.

 

[Areaonereal]

The purpose of the 4457 is no mystery, as the name of the form is pretty clear: Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad. It's purpose is to document you own items that you take out of the country and then want to bring back into the US at a later date. It is not exclusively for firearms, it is for anything of significant value. When I moved overseas, my entire household shipment had to be listed, that way when I moved back to the US, I didn't have to pay duty on stuff I already owned. From the US Customs perspective, the form doesn't expire. I was overseas for 6 years and no issues with an old form. The problem with "expiration date" is usually with non-US government.

I believe those of us utilizing the 4457 know exactly what it is, my post was that SAPS believes it is something other than what we know what it is for....I think they look at it as a license or permit with an expiration date as such a simple explanation by the customs of the US or representatives to SAPS regarding the details of the 4457 could alleviate the never ending and ongoing change required by SAPS for import of weapons

 

[Arctic97]

I believe we are conflating two different issues. The first is in what year did you get the 4457 actually filled out and approved. I have never had a problem and traveled last year with a 4457 filled out and signed years earlier. The second is the "expiration date" on the form which as correctly stated, the SA gov't takes as an expiration of the ownership or validity of the form. All of my 4457's have no expiration date, I use Adobe to white it out. If it is not there they can not and have not ever questioned it in three trips. If you are worried at all, use rifle permits and send the information over early to them. They will let you know if there is a problem prior to leaving for Africa and you can resolve it.

This is probably the best answer to the problem if you are going later this summer past the forms' expiration date. Have one of the advance rifle permit services run your permit now, with that date removed from the form as MMAL said. You will know right away if you have an issue to deal with. I think from what I have seen on most trips when I just took all the docs with me and did the permit there on site that when you hand them that lump of documents they never really look too much at any of them except their SAPS 520 form. The rest of your package is sort of Greek to them and varies for people of different nations, so they focus on their 520 form and if all is good, the permit is approved. This year I did use a service though....mainly because I am taking a friend, and our wives, and even 5 minutes faster through the SAPS office will be good after 30 hours of travel! BTW...the 3 rifle permits we applied for were approved in less than 2 business days....

 

[Bushpig4Ever]

We South Africans need a Temporary Export Permit if we want to hunt abroad. Until recently one had to apply 2-3 weeks before departure, the local police officer (DFO) issued the document.

A week ago I went to see him, handed in my application for another permit. He asked me "What‘s the date of departure?" "26 of April" I replied. "Well, the rules have changed, now we don‘t issue the permit anymore but the forms go to Cape Town and from there to Pretoria. One has to apply two months (!) before departure."

What a disaster, I have booked and paid ticket plus buffalo hunt. No idea whether I'll be able to go. Nobody had informed me about the changes. The DFO said, it was a "recent internal decision".

 

[Arctic97]

We South Africans need a Temporary Export Permit if we want to hunt abroad. Until recently one had to apply 2-3 weeks before departure, the local police officer (DFO) issued the document.

A week ago I went to see him, handed in my application for another permit. He asked me "What‘s the date of departure?" "26 of April" I replied. "Well, the rules have changed, now we don‘t issue the permit anymore but the forms go to Cape Town and from there to Pretoria. One has to apply two month (!) before departure."

What a disaster, I have booked and paid ticket plus buffalo hunt. No idea whether I'll be able to go. Nobody had informed me about the changes. The DFO said, it was an "recent internal decision".

Sorry you had to be the guinea pig so to speak, but this is why this forum is such a great venue for spreading information like this so others are not caught unaware. I hope you will be able to go even if it means a borrowed camp rifle, which I know would not be optimum. Thanks for posting this info, no matter how painful it is personally.

 

[riflepermits.com]

Yes the SA Police will still accept the form as long as it is signed and dated by US customs in 2019.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Yes the SA Police will still accept the form as long as it is signed and dated by US customs in 2019.

Thanks Henry! I’m trying to get the time to get my 4457 signed & stamped, then I’ll send it all to you for my July/August trip.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

A few thoughts of my own on this:

1. If you don't like the 4457 route of documenting that your rifle(s) are yours, would you really prefer a gun registry so that you could have a certificate of ownership with no expiration date?

2. RSA as well as any other country, I believe, has a reasonable expectation to control the firearms entering its country.

3. The 4457 as mentioned in previous posts was never meant to be used by other countries as some sort of firearm ownership documentation. It was simply to show US customs that the expensive items you brought back to the US after traveling abroad were already yours before you left. This way you could avoid paying duty. I'd have to guess U.S. customs never envisioned you using this form over and over again to prove ownership of anything to another country.

4. I'd also imagine that U.S. customs never intended to enforce expiration dates on the forms either. But there is likely some requirement within our gov't bureaucracy that all forms must have an expiration date. This is to purposely cause a review of the form in the future to allow for any changes. Stupid for such a simple form? Probably. But the US govt is who put the expiration date on there, not some other foreign country hell bent on sticking it to anyone.

5. If number 2 is true, and RSA as well as other countries have decided to accept the 4457's in lieu of some sort of formal registration, it seems reasonable to me that they receive a form which hasn't expired. Look at this from their point of view. The average guy, and he may be one of the honest ones, sitting in the SAPS office at Tambo sees an expired form, what do you expect him to do?

6. Whiting out or cutting off the expiration dates seems an unwise thing to do. If you run into the guy who is used to seeing them and he questions this......don't think I'd want to be you.

 

[Catahoula]

Yes the SA Police will still accept the form as long as it is signed and dated by US customs in 2019.

Thanks, Henry, and thank you for the quick response to my email with this same information. I'm off to CBP this Friday for new 4457s and then I'll get everything on the way!

 

[James Koonce]

Did anyone get a final outcome on if a new date on the 4457 was out yet?

 

[Newboomer]

Thanks, Phil. I think you have the best explanation of the situation. Compare it to a driver license, insurance, etc. I believe SAPS just wants to know if what you are bringing into their country is legal and legitimate and current. Another slant: Possibly if your guns were stolen, SAPS has a record of them and can assist in recovery. I don't really think there is a political angle to it, although, that has to be considered.

 

[Ed Lally]

I discussed this issue with a Customs Agent at an international airport. He had no answer and said that it was unfortunate that other governments were using this form to regulate transportation of firearms. I explained that I was told that I could not bring my firearms into RSA because the "Form that would allow their return to the US was expired and that is what the form says: "Expires XX/XX/2016". It took a lot of time and the intervention of another to get into RSA with my firearms. I don't want to go "there" again. A solution not as simple as the whiteout solution:
Download the PDF Form from the US Customs website, convert to "Word", delete the expiration date and any other date on the form (there are 2) , fill in your name, address and items. Bring to US Customs office and they look at your items and sign and stamp the form. No expiration date, no 3 hour BS problem like in previous years.

 

[wesheltonj]

. . .
Download the PDF Form from the US Customs website, convert to "Word", delete the expiration date and any other date on the form (there are 2) , fill in your name, address and items. Bring to US Customs office and they look at your items and sign and stamp the form. No expiration date, no 3 hour BS problem like in previous years.

NOT a recommend solution.