So you think you need to own a Stopping Rifle...

[Doug Hamilton]

And so did I, until recently.

I've made several posts here regarding the various big bores on my journey up the dangerous game/big bore cartridge-ladder and where that dividing line falls between a "hunter" and "stopper" cartridge. I started off with the 375HH and have since added a 416 Rigby, 458 WinMag and most recently a 470 NE.

What I have discovered is that I kind of like the magical line of roughly 5,100 ft-lbs of muzzle energy and 70-75 ft-lbs recoil energy that is exhibited in those last 3 examples. Going above that isn't as much fun.

I've always been curious about the >0.50 cal offerings like the classic 500NE, 500 Jeffery and 505 Gibbs and have always viewed them as exotics along the lines of a Ferrari.

This past weekend I had the opportunity to shoot both a 470NE and 500NE back to back in the same rifle model (Merkel 140) and while some here have said the difference in recoil between the two is negligible , I was able to feel the difference.

I was very comfortable shooting the 470, Afterall it produces roughly the same ballistics as my 458 WM, yet the rifle weighed a full 2 lbs heavier, making the experience enjoyable. The same 11lbs rifle in 500NE was still a push, just a BIG push which raised the muzzle higher, took me longer to reset and let my shoulder know I was shooting a 500.

Knowing that the 500 produces roughly 700 ft-lbs of additional oomph over the 470, and that it's really the entry level of the heavy-hitters has me asking why the need for more? I'm a fairly big guy (6'6'', 260lbs) and have never been recoil shy but I think I may have reached my upper threshold.

A comparable bolt-action like the 458 Lott produces the same energy as a 500 in a much lighter rifle will which be producing in the range of 80-ft-lbs of recoil, The 450 Rigby about 95 ft-lbs and the 500J and 500G over 100-ft-lbs..

While I fully support anyone that chooses to add one of the above cartridges to their stable, I feel like these fall more into the realm of PH stopper cartridges vs what the average North American hunter that may hunt dangerous game a couple times in their life truly requires. Again, if your someone who frequently hunts Elephants then I can see the case for it.

While the 458 WM and 470NE also likely fall into the category of a stopper cartridge I am viewing them more along the lines of "Stopper-Light", closer in performance to the 375s, 404s and 416s than the 458 Lott, 450 Rigby, 500 Jeffery, 505 Gibbs and so on.

When it comes to ammo costs and availability the same divide appears to belong that 470 / 500 line. Here in Canada I have no problem sourcing ammo for my 375/416/458/470 but once you start looking into the 500s, availability plumets and cost per round doubles.

In short, as someone who has recently caught the all things African-hunting bug but has only hunted in North American and will likely only have 1 or 2 opportunities to hunt in Africa, I think I have reached my practical limit in the cartridge world with the 470NE.

As much as I love the mystique, romance and exoticness of the 50cals, I think I will leave that to the PH.

Where do you draw the line?

I have a .458 Win Mag. I load it was th 500 grain bullets at 2160 fps (same as the .470 NE). It goes through a buffalo shoulder bones, through the vitals and out the opposite side of the buffalo. I know this because I have shot two cape buffalo bulls with it. They died. I really cannot see a good reason to carry a much heavier rifle or be kicked a lot harder. I have many rifles from .22-250 through .300 Win Mag. If I ever buy or build another rifle it will be a .375 H&H or 9.3x62 and not something bigger than the .458.

 

[SStomcat]

I have a .458 Win Mag. I load it was th 500 grain bullets at 2160 fps (same as the .470 NE). It goes through a buffalo shoulder bones, through the vitals and out the opposite side of the buffalo. I know this because I have shot two cape buffalo bulls with it. They died. I really cannot see a good reason to carry a much heavier rifle or be kicked a lot harder. I have many rifles from .22-250 through .300 Win Mag. If I ever buy or build another rifle it will be a .375 H&H or 9.3x62 and not something bigger than the .458.

curious, which bullet did you use?

 

[ftrovato]

I have many rifles from 375 H&H and my biggest double being a 500 NE. I just took 13 animals in Mozambique from the Tiny 10 through Buffalo. All with the 416 Rigby & 500 NE. I'm 60 and I believe if one is not truly recoil sensitive it doesn't matter what you shoot up through the 500. Just practice and have fun!

 

[hoytcanon]

I stop at the .458 Lott, but not because of recoil...simply have no need for more... and I only have the Lott because I loved that cartridge in my Ruger RSM. I have mostly used .458 WM Carbines for hunting when the bigger-bore bug struck and I have a number of loads designed for specific tasks.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

curious, which bullet did you use?

Hornady DGS and DGX. Powder was H4895 and the load was out of the Hornady reloading manual. Not past published max, and not tightly compressed. I have shot these over two different chronos and they both came up at 2262. Very consistent. Accurate too.

 

[Flewis]

You asked the wrong question. It should read how many stoping rifles should you own? Ask Krish as he will have the answer. I’m trying to ketch up.

 

[Frederik]

You asked the wrong question. It should read how many stoping rifles should you own? Ask Krish as he will have the answer. I’m trying to ketch up.

I like this answer or is it question just to add to that do you teach your wife exactly how calibres work and mention this one is for lion only this one for buffalo only and so on?

 

[Flewis]

I like this answer or is it question just to add to that do you teach your wife exactly how calibres work and mention this one is for lion only this one for buffalo only and so on?

She always asks the same question and that is Don’t you already have one of those?

 

[colorado]

I stop at the .458 Lott, but not because of recoil...simply have no need for more... and I only have the Lott because I loved that cartridge in my Ruger RSM. I have mostly used .458 WM Carbines for hunting when the bigger-bore bug struck and I have a number of loads designed for specific tasks.

 

[mgstucson]

I read this thread from beginning to end, and came to a few conclusions based on the various perspectives and wisdom shared.

Do you need a stopping rifle? You ONLY know WHAT you actually need WHEN you need it. You could hunt Africa for a lifetime and never need one, possible although not probable. You could also NEED one your first time out, also possible but not probable. With only the POSSIBILITY of needing one and the alternative being to come home in a pine box, I will opt to carry a STOPPING caliber anytime there is a possibility of encountering dangerous game, even if not hunting it, AND only in the presence of a PH with stopping experience using enough gun. ALWAYS OPT FOR REDUNDANT SAFETY WHEN DEATH IS POSSIBLE, OR OPT OUT, IF LIVING THROUGH THE EXPERIENCE IS IMPORTANT. I like to make sure the impossible, or at very least the VERY highly improbable, would have to happen at least TWICE for death to occur. Since there are no certainties in life, we all choose our own percentages, and live or die with the choice.

 

[CZDiesel]

I read this thread from beginning to end, and came to a few conclusions based on the various perspectives and wisdom shared.

Do you need a stopping rifle? You ONLY know WHAT you actually need WHEN you need it. You could hunt Africa for a lifetime and never need one, possible although not probable. You could also NEED one your first time out, also possible but not probable. With only the POSSIBILITY of needing one and the alternative being to come home in a pine box, I will opt to carry a STOPPING caliber anytime there is a possibility of encountering dangerous game, even if not hunting it, AND only in the presence of a PH with stopping experience using enough gun. ALWAYS OPT FOR REDUNDANT SAFETY WHEN DEATH IS POSSIBLE, OR OPT OUT, IF LIVING THROUGH THE EXPERIENCE IS IMPORTANT. I like to make sure the impossible, or at very least the VERY highly improbable, would have to happen at least TWICE for death to occur. Since there are no certainties in life, we all choose our own percentages, and live or die with the choice.

Little confused so I guess I’ll start by asking what you consider a Stopping Rifle? Or cartridge?

 

[sureshot375]

Yes and no. My Zim PH will not let clients with .375s take a frontal brain shot. His thinking is that a big bore will stun it in the case of a near miss and allow for a follow up whereas a near miss from a .375 and the elephant will keep running.

I think elephant hunting is the only real justification for a “stopping” rifle.

With buffalo and cats you need to disrupt the CNS to stop a charge. Shot placement is very unforgiving. With elephant energy from a near miss can be transferred to the brain through that big ole skull to stun the elephant stopping the charge.

According to folks who have killed a lot more elephant than me, 500 grains and up seems to have a lot more effectiveness when talking about a near miss.

I’m still shooting a .500/.416. I’ve debated moving up, but I shoot my rifle really well.

 

[hoytcanon]

I read this thread from beginning to end, and came to a few conclusions based on the various perspectives and wisdom shared.

Do you need a stopping rifle? You ONLY know WHAT you actually need WHEN you need it. You could hunt Africa for a lifetime and never need one, possible although not probable. You could also NEED one your first time out, also possible but not probable. With only the POSSIBILITY of needing one and the alternative being to come home in a pine box, I will opt to carry a STOPPING caliber anytime there is a possibility of encountering dangerous game, even if not hunting it, AND only in the presence of a PH with stopping experience using enough gun. ALWAYS OPT FOR REDUNDANT SAFETY WHEN DEATH IS POSSIBLE, OR OPT OUT, IF LIVING THROUGH THE EXPERIENCE IS IMPORTANT. I like to make sure the impossible, or at very least the VERY highly improbable, would have to happen at least TWICE for death to occur. Since there are no certainties in life, we all choose our own percentages, and live or die with the choice.

Better carry a loaded backpack whenever you leave the house...

 

[franzfmdavis]

I read this thread from beginning to end, and came to a few conclusions based on the various perspectives and wisdom shared.

Do you need a stopping rifle? You ONLY know WHAT you actually need WHEN you need it. You could hunt Africa for a lifetime and never need one, possible although not probable. You could also NEED one your first time out, also possible but not probable. With only the POSSIBILITY of needing one and the alternative being to come home in a pine box, I will opt to carry a STOPPING caliber anytime there is a possibility of encountering dangerous game, even if not hunting it, AND only in the presence of a PH with stopping experience using enough gun. ALWAYS OPT FOR REDUNDANT SAFETY WHEN DEATH IS POSSIBLE, OR OPT OUT, IF LIVING THROUGH THE EXPERIENCE IS IMPORTANT. I like to make sure the impossible, or at very least the VERY highly improbable, would have to happen at least TWICE for death to occur. Since there are no certainties in life, we all choose our own percentages, and live or die with the choice.

Perfectly said. This should be published in print. Im saving it for future reference.

 

[mgstucson]

Little confused so I guess I’ll start by asking what you consider a Stopping Rifle? Or cartridge?

I offer no opinion on the topic. 458 and up on caliber, 500gr and up on weight, and around 2150fps and up on velocity seem to be the consensus opinion of those who write here and do it for a living, although there is no unanimous choice. I defer to the consensus opinions of the professionals who stake their lives and livelihoods on their choices every time they go to work.

 

[mgstucson]

Better carry a loaded backpack whenever you leave the house...

Suits me.

 

[Philip Glass]

And so did I, until recently.

I've made several posts here regarding the various big bores on my journey up the dangerous game/big bore cartridge-ladder and where that dividing line falls between a "hunter" and "stopper" cartridge. I started off with the 375HH and have since added a 416 Rigby, 458 WinMag and most recently a 470 NE.

What I have discovered is that I kind of like the magical line of roughly 5,100 ft-lbs of muzzle energy and 70-75 ft-lbs recoil energy that is exhibited in those last 3 examples. Going above that isn't as much fun.

I've always been curious about the >0.50 cal offerings like the classic 500NE, 500 Jeffery and 505 Gibbs and have always viewed them as exotics along the lines of a Ferrari.

This past weekend I had the opportunity to shoot both a 470NE and 500NE back to back in the same rifle model (Merkel 140) and while some here have said the difference in recoil between the two is negligible , I was able to feel the difference.

I was very comfortable shooting the 470, Afterall it produces roughly the same ballistics as my 458 WM, yet the rifle weighed a full 2 lbs heavier, making the experience enjoyable. The same 11lbs rifle in 500NE was still a push, just a BIG push which raised the muzzle higher, took me longer to reset and let my shoulder know I was shooting a 500.

Knowing that the 500 produces roughly 700 ft-lbs of additional oomph over the 470, and that it's really the entry level of the heavy-hitters has me asking why the need for more? I'm a fairly big guy (6'6'', 260lbs) and have never been recoil shy but I think I may have reached my upper threshold.

A comparable bolt-action like the 458 Lott produces the same energy as a 500 in a much lighter rifle will which be producing in the range of 80-ft-lbs of recoil, The 450 Rigby about 95 ft-lbs and the 500J and 500G over 100-ft-lbs..

While I fully support anyone that chooses to add one of the above cartridges to their stable, I feel like these fall more into the realm of PH stopper cartridges vs what the average North American hunter that may hunt dangerous game a couple times in their life truly requires. Again, if your someone who frequently hunts Elephants then I can see the case for it.

While the 458 WM and 470NE also likely fall into the category of a stopper cartridge I am viewing them more along the lines of "Stopper-Light", closer in performance to the 375s, 404s and 416s than the 458 Lott, 450 Rigby, 500 Jeffery, 505 Gibbs and so on.

When it comes to ammo costs and availability the same divide appears to belong that 470 / 500 line. Here in Canada I have no problem sourcing ammo for my 375/416/458/470 but once you start looking into the 500s, availability plumets and cost per round doubles.

In short, as someone who has recently caught the all things African-hunting bug but has only hunted in North American and will likely only have 1 or 2 opportunities to hunt in Africa, I think I have reached my practical limit in the cartridge world with the 470NE.

As much as I love the mystique, romance and exoticness of the 50cals, I think I will leave that to the PH.

Where do you draw the line?

I can shoot the .470 ok but the .450/400 is a pleasure to shoot and about as effective. I may go out on a limb here and say that the .450/400 may have less felt recoil than some .375’s.