So Bye-Bye Miss American Pie

[Brian]

I think we have just gotten past “peak bourbon.” The rapid increase in consumption that drove prices up, and led to the release of dozens and dozens of new labels, has run its course.

Good article on the end of the fad is here: https://www.inc.com/bruce-crumley/b...mic-hangover-as-consumption-declines/91107063

Maybe some bargains are on the horizon?

If Trump puts more tariffs on Canada we will counter punch with a tax on bourbon. Sobering thought, right?

 

[deewayne2003]

Hunt while you can.

Amen to that!…. That’s why I decided to do a tuskless hunt last July; instead of saving money for an exportable bull hunt that will most likely never happen.

You simply cannot save money fast enough for that “some day” hunt; I looked at the advertised safari prices in outdoor magazines from the 1990’s and adjusted the prices for inflation…..

That was a depressing day!

 

[towserthemouser]

If Trump puts more tariffs on Canada we will counter punch with a tax on bourbon. Sobering thought, right?

More for us, yah?

 

[BGGMKLR]

If Trump puts more tariffs on Canada we will counter punch with a tax on bourbon. Sobering thought, right?

HA!!! That should pay huge dividends.
Forcing Canadians to drink Canadian whiskey.
Brilliant!
Spike

 

[Russ16]

I remember in the late 90s you could do a caribou hunt for $2500-$3000 and take two bulls. They offered outfitted hunts where they set up a big tent camp along the migration and you guided yourself for about $1500. I don’t know why I didn’t do it. Caribou have always fascinated me and now they’re a fortune.

 

[cwpayton]

The cost of hunting in North America has blown up in the last 30 years. But so has everything else. In 1973, an entry-level F150 pickup was less than $3,000. Adjusting that for inflation, today that would be around $20,000. Having just bought a new truck, I can tell you that $20K doesn’t buy a new pickup. The price of a basic no-frill truck is closer to $30K. I think that same math would describe the inflation of an average elk hunt….under 3K then and about $20K now.

Africa prices have increased only slightly over the same period, primarily due to the rapid growth in the number of providers and locations offering hunts. Supply and demand are a bit more balanced in Africa safaris.

I remember 1973 well for several reasons . I purchased a new chevy 1/2 ton 6 cylinder for 2200.$ give or take. I worked for a gov. contract company overhauling f-4 jet engines making 10.50 @ hr. Vietnam winding down and layoffs happened , never bought another NEW truck again, own 4 fords now.

 

[cwpayton]

I posted a pretty long response on a similar thread a while back, so I won't regurgitate that.

I was a school teacher in KS a long time ago, and access to private ground was rapidly evaporating... so I moved to Alaska. Best decision of my adult life. For those of you who can afford and have leases in other states, more power to you. But you're forcing out a lot of folks. I have friends who have quit hunting because they can't get or afford access, and grounds with public access have too many hunters already. I won't say you're a part of the problem, with leasing property, but you are a part of the change that has happened.

Even here (in Alaska) things are changing. The local native corporation where I live owns the land along the best parts of the Nushagak River. Over the past decade or so they have started to restrict access so that only shareholders are able to hunt moose. A few years back they made it much, much harder for non-watershed hunters to hunt fall moose. And then it went away entirely. This year, the first week of season is now off limits completely to local non-native residents. It doesn't really affect me - I typically hunt the last week of season anyhow. But there are groups of people that will now be SOL. School teachers usually have a few days built into the beginning of the calendar to moose hunt before school starts. This effectively gives them no place to hunt, unless they want to fly out somewhere.

It's happening everywhere, in some fashion. I still feel like my best place to be, for hunting here at home, is where I am. But it's depressing, IMHO.

American Pie came out in 1971. I was five. In many ways it was a much better world back then; I did not lack for hunting, fishing, or trapping access during the days of my youth. Please, thank you, and close the gate were largely all that was required.

there was a song " if I could turn back time" !

 

[CZDiesel]

I've been hunting CO and a few other nearby states for a long time and I think one of the big things that changed everything was the advent of publications/scouting publication services like the Huntin Fool. When that thing came along, it was as if anyone and everyone could hunt other states and know exactly where to go and what to expect for trophy size, etc. This changed all the bonus point and preference point systems and point creep started. Then it became increasingly difficult to draw tags that used to come around every once in a while without any point systems in place for tags. People started paying to play and now it's completely out of hand.

A month ago, I booked a caribou hunt in the NWT for myself and my son. We couldn't get anything sooner than 2028 and the price wasn't even locked in because they don't know how much the hunts will be worth by then. But, it'll be somewhere north of $26k each. I did a moose and caribou hunt in 1989 for $5500 in the Rogue River country of the Yukon. Combo hunts there now are $50k+

Times change and prices do too but I'd have a hard time as a parent now introducing my kids to hunting. It's simply out of control for most people now. Sure, you can go whack does or cow elk for less money but who wants to do that for very long? Good antelope hunts in NM are now $8k. Elk hunts if you draw a good tag are $10k+. Who can afford things like this for themselves, much less a passel of kids. It's sad to see it going this way.

Precisely.
I went to one of the original lectures about scouting and tag application services and I told them this was going to become a problem right then and there. You didn't have to be a mathematician to figure out that if people that used to only apply for tags in their own state were now applying in 4 other states, the total number of applications all over the Western states would double, possibly quadruple.

At this initial lecture, people were being encouraged to apply for as many tag types (Pronghorn, Mule Deer, Elk, Sheep, etc.) as they could afford in as many States as they could afford.

What person with an I Q. more than three points above an oyster didn't think this was going to happen?

In Arizona where I served in the Army, there were just over 100 desert bighorn tags available every year. Latest numbers are almost 170,000 applications for those tags! That puts you odds of drawing a tag at 17,000 to 1.

The Kaibab and other areas were very much in demand, but still possible. Not now!

I may look dumb, but that's just a disguise. I predicted this exact scenario, and now it's come to pass.

In my home State of Ohio, I pay around $35 for a deer tag, they are over the counter and in some years you could get as many as 8, but not all in the same zone or county. Western Hunting is a joke to me, with a few exceptions.

I never even thought of this but after reading both of your posts I had a good conversations with @Muting the Goat about this who has basically knows everyone in NA hunting circles and he said this is absolutely the cause of the implosion of big game hunting in west!
He told me this started back in the 90s with Garth Cater starting Huntin Fool. Garth eventually sold it off I guess but then his son Jason just started Epic which was the same thing! Even Cabela’s I got into the act at the time with their tag service…
@Muting the Goat said “I understand a free market and embrace it but the consequences in this case are tragic…”

Well I’m not sure what the demise was but as so many of you have started it’s just out of control and so disturbing!
So sad to see the Music has Died for good hunts for so many in the US!

 

[318AE]

I can live with the black rifle craze because there are still alternatives, but the ballistic turrets on scopes I find very frustrating. Some scopes I understand, but I can’t understand on every scope. If I buy a 1-5 Leupold scope for DG I have absolutely no need for a CDS dial. It’s just an item to fail. It’s getting more difficult to find scopes without ballistic dials. I see Swarovski’s new line states with and without dials so hopefully that’s a positive step.

I hope that for most any game I can get close enough that I don’t need a ballistic dial.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

there was a song " if I could turn back time" !

I remember that skimpy outfit well...

 

[Milo]

I remember that skimpy outfit well...

Greatest thing to ever happen on the Missouri.

 

[Michael70]

I heard a rumor that a probable World Record sheep has been sighted and whereabouts known, which might help explain why someone was willing to pay that amount. They weren't necessarily just bidding on a sheep tag, but a potential World Record sheep tag...... we shall see in time.

Still not worth the money...that is obscene.

 

[wildwilderness]

I have seen pictures of it and I dont think it is the world record, I think it will be the new New Mexico State Record, and will be over 200 inches.

That is the price to pay for a 200” ram!

If you want to move up in the 700 club you need a 200”er for sure

 

[LivingTheDream]

That is the price to pay for a 200” ram!

If you want to move up in the 700 club you need a 200”er for sure

Yeah I just learned about the 700 club, never knew that was a thing. Can't imagine getting that hung up on a score.

But I think that herd was started due to governor tag sales paying for a transplant (I think that is correct but please don't roast me if that is wrong). I used to follow this stuff religiously but found other interests. So hopefully this tag will pay for a few more transplants or the cure/vaccine for movi. Overall, I think it is a good thing for hunters.

 

[wildwilderness]

Yeah I just learned about the 700 club, never knew that was a thing. Can't imagine getting that hung up on a score.

But I think that herd was started due to governor tag sales paying for a transplant (I think that is correct but please don't roast me if that is wrong). I used to follow this stuff religiously but found other interests. So hopefully this tag will pay for a few more transplants or the cure/vaccine for movi. Overall, I think it is a good thing for hunters.

A few years back I met a Mexican Rancher who was pivotal in helping Desert Bighorns in Sonora through the game ranching and wild transplant program. He said he could sell a 200” Desert Sheep for $1M then. With inflation we see the $1.3M is real


I absolutely rather see people giving large sums of money to sheep and hunting conservation programs for a tag than the opposite! Need to match the amounts leftist liberals give to support Anti Hunting efforts and bans.

 

[BGGMKLR]

I remember in the late 90s you could do a caribou hunt for $2500-$3000 and take two bulls. They offered outfitted hunts where they set up a big tent camp along the migration and you guided yourself for about $1500. I don’t know why I didn’t do it. Caribou have always fascinated me and now they’re a fortune.

AHHHH...reminiscing about the good old days.
How bout this:
Brooks Range North Slope
15 day Spring hunt for
North Slope Mountain/Inland/Barren Ground Grizzly
All inclusive with pickup at Prudhoe Bay.

Best
Spike

I remember in the late 90s you could do a caribou hunt for $2500-$3000 and take two bulls. They offered outfitted hunts where they set up a big tent camp along the migration and you guided yourself for about $1500. I don’t know why I didn’t do it. Caribou have always fascinated me and now they’re a fortune.

 

[HankBuck]

So bye, bye, Miss American Pie
Drove my Chevy to the levee but the levee was dry
And them good ol boys were drinking whiskey 'n rye
Singin' this'll be the day that I die
This'll be the day that I die

The last 15 years or so were spent on my career and then on my health. Somewhere in that span everything changed! No more wood stocked rifles, no more scopes with normal turret caps as they all have adjustable turrets now, and most of all the hunting prospects are upside down!
Fifteen years ago an Elephant hunt was way out of reach but a Brown Bear hunt was attainable. A Buffalo hunt was a serious endeavor but a trophy Elk hunt was an easy get. Plains game was still an expensive deal and maybe a once in a lifetime hunt for someone where as a Mule Deer in a trophy unit could be had!
Now Elephant hunts are less expensive than Brown Bear hunts are! Elk hunts are as expensive as Elephant hunts in trophy units! Mule deer tags in trophy units are so scarce one can go a lifetime and not draw!
Brown Bear up to $50k! New Mexico Elk hunts up to $35k! Lottery Mule Deer $500,000+!!! And I won’t even go into what a Sheep hunt can cost SMH
One can hunt trophy Elephant, Buff, and most plains game for less?!?! Sometimes much much less

When was it the music died for North American hunts and firearms and accessories? It all happened so fast and not only did I see it pass me but I never thought it would happen!
I have to wonder what caused it all? Did the wars push all the black rifle craziness and silly turrets? Did the anti-hunters push the prices on trophy hunts to the point of being unattainable for most?
It’s now less expensive to hunt Africa than it is for trophy hunts in North America…

And them good ol boys were drinking whiskey ‘n rye
Singin’ this’ll be the day that I die…

@CZDiesel - you raise good points and today having a lot of $$$ can easily get you into Top U.S. trophy areas…you can almost “buy” a trophy by being able to afford the ONLY available tag into a trophy limited draw area. If you define a Trophy by score - $$$ is very helpful getting one (Not essential). But, you could consider effort and a DIY hunt, where YOU do EVERYTHING (scout, plan the hunt, stalk, shot, pack out etc..) —-regardless of animal size &. Score - taking a good animal on a DIY hunt is a Trophy. Animals I’ve taken on my own are more meaningful to Me then anything I’ve ever taken with a Guide and they rank at the Top of my trophies…regardless of score.

 

[Aaron N]

HA!!! That should pay huge dividends.
Forcing Canadians to drink Canadian whiskey.
Brilliant!
Spike

Is there any other whiskey besides Canadian?

The rest is toilet cleaner

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Is there any other whiskey besides Canadian?

The rest is toilet cleaner

I’m pretty partial to golden wedding myself Canadian 83 is pretty good too

 

[BGGMKLR]

@CZDiesel - you raise good points and today having a lot of $$$ can easily get you into Top U.S. trophy areas…you can almost “buy” a trophy by being able to afford the ONLY available tag into a trophy limited draw area. If you define a Trophy by score - $$$ is very helpful getting one (Not essential). But, you could consider effort and a DIY hunt, where YOU do EVERYTHING (scout, plan the hunt, stalk, shot, pack out etc..) —-regardless of animal size &. Score - taking a good animal on a DIY hunt is a Trophy. Animals I’ve taken on my own are more meaningful to Me then anything I’ve ever taken with a Guide and they rank at the Top of my trophies…regardless of score.

Amen