Shot String experiments

[Fixfire]

Thanks for posting. I found the video very informative in that it solidifies my understanding and dispels many of the myths some of my fellow shooters espouse.

 

[503]

Our farm was in a crow flyway growing up. I learned to voice call and used dead crows as decoys all winter. It got a little macabre with all of those crows hanging in the willow switches. Spring thaw got a little nasty as well.

Interesting fact, hang a dead crow by his neck and he’s a decoy, hang him by his foot and he drives every crow in the county away.

Very true, owl decoys work great too. Put a dead crow or some crow dekes by an owl and the crows get mega pissed. They hate owls.

503s hunting tip of the day haha

Cheers

 

[WAB]

Very true, owl decoys work great too. Put a dead crow or some crow dekes by an owl and the crows get mega pissed. They hate owls.

503s hunting tip of the day haha

Cheers

And if you really want to kill crows, stake a cat out in the open. Oops, did I say that out loud????

 

[503]

And if you really want to kill crows, stake a cat out in the open. Oops, did I say that out loud????

Actually you may know the answer to this question I've had about crow hunting. I've been told by people that when you start calling they send a scout crow to see what's up.

People have told me to let the scout live so he will tell the others it's ok. Others have told me to kill the scout so the others will come investigate his disappearance.

I've done it both ways and I don't notice much of a difference.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

 

[WAB]

Actually you may know the answer to this question I've had about crow hunting. I've been told by people that when you start calling they send a scout crow to see what's up.

People have told me to let the scout live so he will tell the others it's ok. Others have told me to kill the scout so the others will come investigate his disappearance.

I've done it both ways and I don't notice much of a difference.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

First shot Akers them regardless, kill the scout

 

[503]

First shot Akers them regardless, kill the scout

Probably a good call. Thanks! Let none escape.....

Cheers

Ps. Sorry for hijacking thread

 

[steve white]

Shell manufacturers have been trying to SHORTEN the shot cloud since the abysmally long string days of cardboard wads. Hard shot, Graf, plastic wads, are a good thing.
+1 on Brister's towed target proof

 

[flatwater bill]

Before we knew any better......................FWB

 

[steve white]

The video and camera work were fun to watch.....but the author, unfortunately, spent two years investigating an issue that is essentially meaningless.......(as he reluctantly concludes.) He gives an example under who's parameters a duck can travel 9 inches from the first to the last pellet in the shot string. What he fails to mention, is that this cannot ALL be eliminated. If we shorten the shot string by, say, 30%, then the duck moves only 6.3 inches, and we have gotten rid of 2.7 inches of quack. At 40 yards with a high speed Sprig, 2 inches is not the real problem. To @WAB 's excellent reading list, I would add authors Clair Rees, (who passed this year.), Francis Sell, and Tom Roster. Clair taught me to "Target" my shotgun, not simply "pattern" it. It was the single most useful and helpful thing I ever learned about the shotgun from any expert. Shot string length is about number 136 . I have shot clays and hunted birds for over half a century now.....still enjoy learning about the gun........thanks to OP for posting the vid...FWB

Can you elaborate on "target a shotgun"?

 

[chashardy]

I saw the video on youtube a couple of days ago and I found it very interesting because I've been wondering what the "shape" of the load of shot was as it moved from muzzle to a flying target--bird or clay--30 to 40 yards or so away. The super slow motion video demonstrating shot string and variations of the string depending on choke and shot size, lead, steel, etc. was quite informative. It gives me a better mental picture of what my shotgun is sending down range toward the target. But, sight picture and keeping the barrel in front of the bird is still the most important part of shotgunning.
Regarding chokes, Gil Ash did a great video analyzing the difference in shot spread and pattern at 25, 35, 45 yards comparing improved cylinder and modified chokes. Turns out there isn't much difference at 35 yards but a noticeable difference at 45 yards. Obviously different brands of chokes and different ammo can also affect the spread.

 

[flatwater bill]

@steve white sure. The concept is simple. The logistics can be a challenge.
Targeting a shotgun: 1. pattern test your gun with your desired load. 2. Determine where the center of charge is striking. I put up two tall fence rails...wooden poles sticking in the ground about 4 feet apart and at least 6 feet high. Stretch an old bed sheet between them to use as a target. Taught is best. Mark a large X with a heavy felt marker in the center of the sheet. Get back at a distance, and I find 40 yards works best. Get a good stance, and smoothly mount the shotgun, being sure to bring the gun to your face, not your face down to the gun. Start shooting. After about 40 shots, a ragged hole will appear in the sheet. This is the center of charge. Hopefully it will be on, or just above the X. But it is often 18 inches or even two feet or more away. Ever have a scatter gun that you just can't master, no matter how much you practice? This can be one reason. I am amazed at YT videos in which a man patterns a gun, then adjusts his 30" circle to encompass the most hits possible. Like getting a one inch group with your 300 mag, but not worrying about the fact that it prints 2 feet to the right. If you have a shotgun that is difficult for you to shoot well, consider targeting the gun. If you rarely miss, then there is little point in this exercise. I had a Rem 1100 that I could not shoot. Clair showed me how he targeted a gun. Mine was 18 inches right and 5 inches low.......duck season is here...best of luck with your shotgunning..................FWB

 

[Traveler1]

At long range chokes make a difference. I have not read all the post above. But I can tell you this. I have been shooting PatternMasters for about 20 years on all my ducks. We don't hunt in blinds, so 90% of ours shots are over 40 yards. I pattern test all my shotguns with different ammo and chokes and various yards. No two guns shout the same. I get about an extra 10-15+ yards of tight pattern on Browning Cynergy with a extended range PM, now called the classic. I have of blown the heads of several teal at 20 yards with it. BTW I shout #1 3 1/2 loads. On my Remington Auto 10 gauge, I get an extra 20-25+ yards of tight pattern. No BS, I have killed dozens of ducks and geese out past 100 yards with it. Shooting #1 or T 3 1/2 loads. For about a 10 year period I hunted 75-80% of the days in duck season. So we are talking thousands plus of rounds with a PM. At short range in duck blind, I don't see a use for, as I use the extend range choke.

 

[WAB]

@steve white sure. The concept is simple. The logistics can be a challenge.
Targeting a shotgun: 1. pattern test your gun with your desired load. 2. Determine where the center of charge is striking. I put up two tall fence rails...wooden poles sticking in the ground about 4 feet apart and at least 6 feet high. Stretch an old bed sheet between them to use as a target. Taught is best. Mark a large X with a heavy felt marker in the center of the sheet. Get back at a distance, and I find 40 yards works best. Get a good stance, and smoothly mount the shotgun, being sure to bring the gun to your face, not your face down to the gun. Start shooting. After about 40 shots, a ragged hole will appear in the sheet. This is the center of charge. Hopefully it will be on, or just above the X. But it is often 18 inches or even two feet or more away. Ever have a scatter gun that you just can't master, no matter how much you practice? This can be one reason. I am amazed at YT videos in which a man patterns a gun, then adjusts his 30" circle to encompass the most hits possible. Like getting a one inch group with your 300 mag, but not worrying about the fact that it prints 2 feet to the right. If you have a shotgun that is difficult for you to shoot well, consider targeting the gun. If you rarely miss, then there is little point in this exercise. I had a Rem 1100 that I could not shoot. Clair showed me how he targeted a gun. Mine was 18 inches right and 5 inches low.......duck season is here...best of luck with your shotgunning..................FWB

Ah but what is the fix? It’s one thing to know your gun is off, it’s another to get it on. This is where the services of a good gun fitter and stock bender come in. I was fortunate to have connections at H&H who fit me as well as
can be done.

The other extremely crucial point here is that gun fit is useless until you have perfected your mounting/shooting technique. As you improve, the correct fit may in fact change.

Take some lessons from a top tier instructor (there are actually very few, and some whose name you hear a lot are NOT on the list), be fit by someone who knows what they are doing, have your stock bent accordingly.

Typically we are looking for a result where 2/3 of the charge strikes above the point of aim. Some uses call for a flat result with only 1/2 of the charge striking above the point of aim.

 

[flatwater bill]

@Traveler that is a lot of experience in long range shotgunning. Sounds like you know what your're talking about. I respect that. But for me, I have had to come to grips with the fact that I am not that good of a shooter, and shorten the range. I have shot trap, sporting, 5 stand and skeet for over 50 years, typically in the top 3rd, even won a State title once......but the sow's purse/pig's ear fits me only too well.....and @WAB, THAT is truly the question. I have gotten a different gun. Got rid of the problem. But there are other fixes as you correctly point out.....all the best this season.......FWB

 

[steve white]

Ah but what is the fix? It’s one thing to know your gun is off, it’s another to get it on. This is where the services of a good gun fitter and stock bender come in. I was fortunate to have connections at H&H who fit me as well as
can be done.

The other extremely crucial point here is that gun fit is useless until you have perfected your mounting/shooting technique. As you improve, the correct fit may in fact change.

Take some lessons from a top tier instructor (there are actually very few, and some whose name you hear a lot are NOT on the list), be fit by someone who knows what they are doing, have your stock bent accordingly.

Typically we are looking for a result where 2/3 of the charge strikes above the point of aim. Some uses call for a flat result with only 1/2 of the charge striking above the point of aim.

Unless it's the barrel that's bent?

 

[WAB]

Unless it's the barrel that's bent?

Well possible I suppose, but I’ve never seen it.