Shooters, read this and tell me how much you hate Trump!

[Hunting Hitman]

Obama gun bans=0
Trump administration = bumpfire stocks

While I have zero use for and zero desire to own a bumpfire stock, I see no reason to ban them. He ain’t any knight in shining armor.

The mass shooting in Las Vegas is a pretty good reason to ban these stocks.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

If I recall, bump stocks were not even banned, they were reclassified as full auto conversion devices. (or something to that affect) Naturally they were made after 1984 (I think) so they have been banned since then.
Please correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[WebleyGreene455]

If I recall, bump stocks were not even banned, they were reclassified as full auto conversion devices. (or something to that affect) Naturally they were made after 1984 (I think) so they have been banned since then.
Please correct me if I’m wrong.

I think you're pretty much correct. They're classed as a device which allows a single trigger pull to fire more than one round, so that makes 'em a "machine gun" according to law.

 

[enysse]

Yes, Trump didn’t get everything right but the media is extra hard on him. I’m sure with Hillary it would have been a “real poop show or poop storm” as we say in the hospital.

 

[DrBob]

The mass shooting in Las Vegas is a pretty good reason to ban these stocks.

Bump stocks caused pre-mature malfunction of the shooter's rifles.... the unique situation that night of firing (volley fire) into a large contained crowd made the bump stocks relevant but most mass shootings in history are confined to victims hitting the floor, curling up and getting shot at point blank range as the shooter(s) walk around with plenty of time. Shooting ducks in barrel scenario. The key autopsy findings are the key to sorting out. In some cases, previous military training enhanced the attack... such as in New Zealand.

 

[sestoppelman]

Well sort of. Here is what ATF says. Basically, the bump stock is now classified under the NFA as a machine gun and owners must either turn them in to LE or destroy them.
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/bump-stocks
The reclassification to a machine gun is why so many of us squawked. Its a freaking piece of plastic that in and of itself does NOTHING. It by itself cannot shoot anything. Only until you connect it to a semi auto rifle does it become anything else. Its still not a machine gun or any kind of a gun until that happens, and even then its not a gun, its an enhancement. A belt loop and thumb can accomplish the same thing.

I think it was misguided from the beginning and I sent several emails to the president voicing my concerns. As I have said before, I didn't own one, nor did I ever want one, still don't. I just fear that if ATF can just rule something to be what it cannot be is dangerous precedent.
I think eventually SCOTUS will rule it unlawful to do so, but it could be a while.
Trump succumbed to the "do something" disease on this and I believe it worked politically, but I wish he had not just let ATF make up a new rule on it. Its absurd.

 

[DrBob]

Well sort of. Here is what ATF says. Basically, the bump stock is now classified under the NFA as a machine gun and owners must either turn them in to LE or destroy them.
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/bump-stocks
The reclassification to a machine gun is why so many of us squawked. Its a freaking piece of plastic that in and of itself does NOTHING. It by itself cannot shoot anything. Only until you connect it to a semi auto rifle does it become anything else. Its still not a machine gun or any kind of a gun until that happens, and even then its not a gun, its an enhancement. A belt loop and thumb can accomplish the same thing.

I think it was misguided from the beginning and I sent several emails to the president voicing my concerns. As I have said before, I didn't own one, nor did I ever want one, still don't. I just fear that if ATF can just rule something to be what it cannot be is dangerous precedent.
I think eventually SCOTUS will rule it unlawful to do so, but it could be a while.
Trump succumbed to the "do something" disease on this and I believe it worked politically, but I wish he had not just let ATF make up a new rule on it. Its absurd.

Totally misguided. The goal for many rights isto so restrict them as to make them functionally dead. Jim Crow laws come to mind.

 

[steve white]

can do without any Trump derangement syndrome, thank you.

 

[sestoppelman]

Yeah, not down with the Jim Crow comparison, that's more than a stretch, though I agree with the basic point about restricting rights. Been going on for many years. Little by little.

 

[DrBob]

Yeah, not down with the Jim Crow comparison, that's more than a stretch, though I agree with the basic point about restricting rights. Been going on for many years. Little by little.

Depends were one lives and one experiences to shape the viewpoint.

 

[Ray B]

The action of a bump stock is to allow the action to move back due to recoil relative to the finger then push the action back forward. This allows the trigger to reset as the action moves rearward then if the finger maintains pressure the trigger is pushed into it, causing the trigger to be pressed again and repeating the cycle. This does NOT make it a full automatic gun. It does allow the semi-automatic to fire rapidly and "mimic" the rate of fire of a full auto. The morons in the DemonRat party believe any lie they are told- as dementia Joe said- they are the party of truth over facts, and when they manufacture the truth their lemmings see no reason to compare it to actual facts.

As for Jim Crow laws- they were a result of commonly held beliefs of the time. To judge people of that time by the standards of today is no more fair than the way we will be judged by those that follow us in a hundred years- and you can bet, we'll be judged.

 

[sestoppelman]

Depends were one lives and one experiences to shape the viewpoint.

Agree but its still not a valid comparison.

 

[DrBob]

The action of a bump stock is to allow the action to move back due to recoil relative to the finger then push the action back forward. This allows the trigger to reset as the action moves rearward then if the finger maintains pressure the trigger is pushed into it, causing the trigger to be pressed again and repeating the cycle. This does NOT make it a full automatic gun. It does allow the semi-automatic to fire rapidly and "mimic" the rate of fire of a full auto. The morons in the DemonRat party believe any lie they are told- as dementia Joe said- they are the party of truth over facts, and when they manufacture the truth their lemmings see no reason to compare it to actual facts.

As for Jim Crow laws- they were a result of commonly held beliefs of the time. To judge people of that time by the standards of today is no more fair than the way we will be judged by those that follow us in a hundred years- and you can bet, we'll be judged.

I whole-heartedly agree with the first paragraph. I totally disagree with the second. Subjugation of free men (Black , in this case) was bad then and bad now. Something are timeless values.

 

[Ray B]

I presume the Dr is from going to college for several years rather than being an actual MD? We have the prism of history and changed values to look through. They didn't. As to slavery, Consider that things in Africa were so dire that the sickle cell gene was considered a means of survival, not to mention that it was common belief at the time that blacks were more closely related to primates than to Europeans.

 

[DrBob]

Agree but its still not a valid comparison.

The concept of the Jim Crow laws was to hinder the rights of a select group of the populace. They had rights but barriers were placed that made practicing those rights difficult. There was a very strong belief that some people were inferior by race. These ideas were held across a wide spectrum of the population... on the Left by Woodrow Wilson and Margaret Sanger and on the Right by T.R. Roosevelt. Eugenics was supported in varying forms . Boy... this is straying off topic since I consider the bump stock as a dangerous precedent.

 

[DrBob]

I presume the Dr is from going to college for several years rather than being an actual MD? We have the prism of history and changed values to look through. They didn't. As to slavery, Consider that things in Africa were so dire that the sickle cell gene was considered a means of survival, not to mention that it was common belief at the time that blacks were more closely related to primates than to Europeans.

A.A. Literature, B.S. Chemistry, B.S. Nuclear Engineering, M.D., Double Boarded Radiology and Nuclear Medicine. Once upon a time an assistant professor in U. Cal. system. Sickle Cell in Africa and Thalessemia in the Mediterranean area both gave increased resistance to malaria although at a cost. Sort of like alcohol in days past.... drink dirty water and die young or drink alcohol and die later... if you couldn't handle the alcohol. I fully understand that Lincoln considered the Negro to be inferior, but should be allowed to better themselves.

 

[Glenn Slaven]

It was May 18, 1986 for the cut off to manufacture machine guns for transfer to entities that were not Class 2 or Class 3 SOTs or governmental entities. Note, there is no such thing as a class 3 license. I see that error spoken and printed a lot.
The issue with the bump stock ban is that it allowed an executive to summarily make a rule that has the force of law, when congress had already defined a machine gun under the NFA 1934. Meaning the same logic could be used to say 30 round or 20 round or 10 round mags to somehow define them as MGs. The bump stock has already been evaluated and ruled by the Firearms Technology Branch of the ATF as you not be a machine gun as clearly does not meet the definition. Then by an order the the Justice Dept, it was re-evaluated and now ruled a machine gun without a change in the law.

Was it a firearm accessory? Sure it was. By redefining it as a machine gun it is now a firearm. The FOPA of 1986 with the Lautenburg Amendment is unconstitutional, and was passed by a questionable voice vote.

As a firearms manufacturer and a Class 2 SOT at that (manufacturer of NFA items such as firearm silencers, short barrel rifles/shotguns, and machine guns) this is one of this things that both sides irritate me on at time. Obama with 41F (at least he did it the correct way as he was supposed to under the law) or Trump and his bump stock ban which he had done in a shady and frankly in a way the circumvented the law, both are not friends of those who understand and support the 2A.

 

[Ray B]

The gov't is playing Whack-a-Mole with guns. Ever since the self-contained primer was invented which led to preloaded cartridges inventors have devised ways of using the energy generated by the cartridge to eject the empty and insert a loaded cartridge (or in some inventions electricity or PTO was used). With that accomplished all that was needed was to get the firing pin to drop. The problem was to have a system where the action was closed and locked prior to the firing. This eliminated simple fixed firing pin actions that fired on closing. The nearly universal solution has been to have a part that would catch the firing pin and then a system that allowed for the closure/locking of the action before the firing pin was released. This is the system used in the M14 and M16s. When fired on semi the hook catches the firing pin. The trigger needs to be released in order for the hook to release the firing pin but in releasing the trigger another hook raised to catch the firing pin. The trigger needed to be pressed to lower that hook. So to operate the rifle the trigger needed to be pressed and released and pressed again and released again, each p&r caused the gun to shoot one time. the select-fire switches added a system that allowed the action to close/lock which then released the hooks holding the firing pin. Since the hook directly attached to the trigger was out of the path, the firing pin proceeded to the primer. So in a select-fire gun the trigger is pressed, the firing pin falls, the bolt opens ejects the empty, chambers a new cartridge. During this operation the firing pin has been caught by the action hook, then when the action is locked that hook is released. If the trigger is still pressed the firing pin slides past the trigger hook and fires the cartridge and the cycle repeats.

the bump-stock operates as a semi-auto in all aspects with the change of operation being that the shooter presses the trigger, the gun fires and recoils. The recoil moves the action within the stock, backward in relation to the shooters grip- basically it is allowing the trigger to move back away from the finger. This allows the action hook that has caught the firing pin to release it and let it move forward to the trigger hook. but now the recoil has ended and springs in the stock push the action back forward, moving the trigger back into contact with the finger, which is still pressing, so the trigger is pressed, the firing pin releases and the action recycles. So as some of the more truthful media reported the bump stock allowed the gun to "mimic" a select fire.

so the herd stampeded and the bump stocks were prohibited. Rest assured that it won't be long until someone else analyzes the system and figures out another way for the action hook to be released after the bolt is closed/locked and the trigger is depressed. Then again there will be some incident that causes the herd to stampede and the govt will once again play Whack-a-Mole.

 

[Ray B]

Shooting ducks in barrel scenario.

It's actually: Ducks on the Pond and Fish in a Barrel.

 

[sestoppelman]

It was May 18, 1986 for the cut off to manufacture machine guns for transfer to entities that were not Class 2 or Class 3 SOTs or governmental entities. Note, there is no such thing as a class 3 license. I see that error spoken and printed a lot.
The issue with the bump stock ban is that it allowed an executive to summarily make a rule that has the force of law, when congress had already defined a machine gun under the NFA 1934. Meaning the same logic could be used to say 30 round or 20 round or 10 round mags to somehow define them as MGs. The bump stock has already been evaluated and ruled by the Firearms Technology Branch of the ATF as you not be a machine gun as clearly does not meet the definition. Then by an order the the Justice Dept, it was re-evaluated and now ruled a machine gun without a change in the law.

Was it a firearm accessory? Sure it was. By redefining it as a machine gun it is now a firearm. The FOPA of 1986 with the Lautenburg Amendment is unconstitutional, and was passed by a questionable voice vote.

As a firearms manufacturer and a Class 2 SOT at that (manufacturer of NFA items such as firearm silencers, short barrel rifles/shotguns, and machine guns) this is one of this things that both sides irritate me on at time. Obama with 41F (at least he did it the correct way as he was supposed to under the law) or Trump and his bump stock ban which he had done in a shady and frankly in a way the circumvented the law, both are not friends of those who understand and support the 2A.

I agree with this. It remains to be seen however whether the action taken was unlawful. Thus far the lower courts have held it legal or punted. When or if SCOTUS ever actually takes this up to rule on the merits, then we will know. Until then, it is law. Stupid? Absolutely, but law nonetheless.