Shipping a Disassembled Shotgun Question

[Dirtdart]

After various bobbles with FedEx I now always ship long guns via USPS. Never a problem.

I have a nice little Kimber 45 ACP that I need to send for work, but I don't think USPS will ship handguns?

FFL holders are the only ones allowed to ship handguns USPS.

 

[HankBuck]

Having recently shipped several here is what I’ve read and been told (by 3 different FFLs: Unless you have an FFL you can NOT ship any firearm even if you are sending it TO an FFL for repairs. The only exception is if you are sending the firearm “back to the same FFL you purchased it from”. Most people do not follow this and there appears to be low risk but that is what was explained to me. A “firearm” includes and gun part that has the serial number on it. So you can ship a barrel or other “part” as long as that part has no serial number on it. Even though I’ve had two FFLs recently tell me “it’s ok, we do it all the time” I’m uncomfortable risking it.
It’s sounds stupid and I agree but “stupid laws” exist in many places. If I’m wrong - which is always possible since I’ve gotten several answers to this question….please cite the written Federal Law, a copy would be great if posted. I would like to see some “sanity” return to shipping firearms.
PS - forget UPS or Fedx….they have “policy” they follow that is often Not rooted in the Law.

 

[Dirtdart]

US Postal regulations allow a NON FFL to ship a LONG GUN.

 

[HankBuck]

US Postal regulations allow a NON FFL to ship a LONG GUN.

It’s Not the U.S. Postal Service I worry about - it’s the ATF, thats the agency that will become a problem if a law is broken. And you will note that the very bottom of the US Postal form refers you to the ATF

 

[Dirtdart]

It’s Not the U.S. Postal Service I worry about - it’s the ATF, thats the agency that will become a problem if a law is broken. And you will note that the very bottom of the US Postal form refers you to the ATF

The ATF provides the definition of a firearm. If you are the legal owner of a rifle/shotgun you can LEGALLY ship said long gun as long gun USPS providing stipulations are met on the receiving end.
ATFE clearly define what constitutes a firearm which the US Postal Service must adhere to. I am a former type 01 FFL.
Those 3 FFL's are mistaken IF they were referring to legality of a non FFL shipping a rifle/shotgun through the USPS.

 

[HankBuck]

The ATF provides the definition of a firearm. If you are the legal owner of a rifle/shotgun you can LEGALLY ship said long gun as long gun USPS providing stipulations are met on the receiving end.
ATFE clearly define what constitutes a firearm which the US Postal Service must adhere to. I am a former type 01 FFL.
Those 3 FFL's are mistaken IF they were referring to legality of a non FFL shipping a rifle/shotgun through the USPS.

Dirtdart - thank you and my recent deeper diver into ATF requirements “seem” to indicate that I can ship a firearm out-of-state as long as it goes to an FFL. Why I’ve had 3 FFLs dispute that — I have No idea: 2 were in Virginia but one was in Idaho. The Idaho FFL was someone that I previously purchased from and had nothing to gain by steering me wrong. The VA FFL could’ve wanted to make their $40 handling fee but that seems stupid. I also recently had an issue with UPS refusing to ship a handgun directly to Ruger for repair - even after Ruger provided them with a prepaid shipping label, email, and spoke to the UPS person on the phone——finally UPS sent it. Nothing with firearms is ever easy or consistent.

 

[Dirtdart]

You may find these next couple of pages useful. Many FFL's as their own policy refuse to accept a firearm from a non FFL. The shipping FFL has done the due diligence to determine the ID of the individual that brought the firearm in face to face with proper identification. There is a chance that a non FFL could ship stolen merchandise and or, use fake credentials is the reason for that. Much less liability for the receiving FFL but not law a that I am aware of ?

We have federal laws, state laws, and private company policies with little rhyme or reason but we must adhere to them.

 

[RR 314]

I greatly limit my buyer pool when trying to sell guns as I will not ship. It is such a hassle, and as others have stated, if you do have an insurance claim--good luck to you. With these new ATF regulations that will apparently be final soon, I thing we may all be considered "dealers" as well. Just read a blip about it, but may need to do a liquidation really soon.

 

[HankBuck]

I greatly limit my buyer pool when trying to sell guns as I will not ship. It is such a hassle, and as others have stated, if you do have an insurance claim--good luck to you. With these new ATF regulations that will apparently be final soon, I thing we may all be considered "dealers" as well. Just read a blip about it, but may need to do a liquidation really soon.

I also ship only FFL to FFL for my peace of mind and possible liability protection - even if Not required it’s worth paying $40 for. Regarding insurance claims from carriers that lose or damage firearms in transit - heard that the U.S Postal service is the best at “paying claims”.

 

[RR 314]

I also ship only FFL to FFL for my peace of mind and possible liability protection - even if Not required it’s worth paying $40 for. Regarding insurance claims from carriers that lose or damage firearms in transit - heard that the U.S Postal service is the best at “paying claims”.

Strangely I have heard just the converse. Insure a $xxxxx rifle for $xxxxx. Value is established by arms length transaction and value not disputed at time of insurance purchase. Have had numerous friends have guns lost/stolen effectively rendered valueless by damage and USPS won’t pay anywhere near insured value.

 

[Charles de Ribeau]

A decade ago, after my Dad passed away, I had to deal with moving a few guns (long and handguns). The shotguns and rifles were easy. I just put them in gun cases and checked them at the airport, after declaring them. Handguns were another matter. He lived in NY state. For those who don't know, NY is really death on handgun ownership. All sorts of hoops to jump through. Being from out of state, I couldn't qualify for a permit. Therefore, I couldn't legally get them to and through the airport to take them with me. I talked with police at the airport. They advised against trying slip them through with the long guns because I could have ended up in big trouble if it was discovered that I was transporting them without a pistol permit.

I talked to my dad's next door neighbor who had until recently been the chief of police in the city. He said they (local police didn't consider it to be a firearm if it was disassembled and unable to fire. So, I took each one as far apart as I could without gunsmith tools and knowledge. Then, I wrapped them in one layer of bubble wrap and then added random chunks of metal from my dad's workshop and taped them to the guns. Then I wrapped each in bunched up aluminum foil. I don't remember, but if I labeled them as anything, it was probably simply "PARTS". Stuck them in a Fedex box for overnight delivery to my son who was out of state. It worked without a hitch.

 

[HankBuck]

A decade ago, after my Dad passed away, I had to deal with moving a few guns (long and handguns). The shotguns and rifles were easy. I just put them in gun cases and checked them at the airport, after declaring them. Handguns were another matter. He lived in NY state. For those who don't know, NY is really death on handgun ownership. All sorts of hoops to jump through. Being from out of state, I couldn't qualify for a permit. Therefore, I couldn't legally get them to and through the airport to take them with me. I talked with police at the airport. They advised against trying slip them through with the long guns because I could have ended up in big trouble if it was discovered that I was transporting them without a pistol permit.

I talked to my dad's next door neighbor who had until recently been the chief of police in the city. He said they (local police didn't consider it to be a firearm if it was disassembled and unable to fire. So, I took each one as far apart as I could without gunsmith tools and knowledge. Then, I wrapped them in one layer of bubble wrap and then added random chunks of metal from my dad's workshop and taped them to the guns. Then I wrapped each in bunched up aluminum foil. I don't remember, but if I labeled them as anything, it was probably simply "PARTS". Stuck them in a Fedex box for overnight delivery to my son who was out of state. It worked without a hitch.

Charles: It only “worked” because you were Not challenged and faced No questions. Had that package been damaged, delivered to a wrong address and turned over to Police - things could’ve been different. Any firearm “part” with a serial number “IS a firearm”. I think that mailing them “in disguise” was more risk then flying them - You do not need to prove ownership of a firearm to TSA at any airport. Problems arise if that firearm is prohibited in that State ie: AR Rifle in California, fully automatic firearm, etc…. Driving them out of New York might of been OK unless you took them into NJ, MD, MA, IL, Wash DC etc.. Overall the Northeast is a very regulated area and States do Not recognize legal handguns from neighboring States — NJ doesn’t allow registered handguns from NY, NY won’t recognize registered handguns from NJ or any other State —- complicated.

 

[HankBuck]

Strangely I have heard just the converse. Insure a $xxxxx rifle for $xxxxx. Value is established by arms length transaction and value not disputed at time of insurance purchase. Have had numerous friends have guns lost/stolen effectively rendered valueless by damage and USPS won’t pay anywhere near insured value.

I believe You and have No direct experience with any claim - this was what an FFL told me before I shipped to him based on his experience with claims — he said USPS paid out claims faster and with less of a fight….who knows?? No company wants to ever “pay out” on an insurance claim —— they make their money selling insurance NOT paying claims

 

[RR 314]

I believe You and have No direct experience with any claim - this was what an FFL told me before I shipped to him based on his experience with claims — he said USPS paid out claims faster and with less of a fight….who knows?? No company wants to ever “pay out” on an insurance claim —— they make their money selling insurance NOT paying claims

I realize damage claims can be controversial, but if I sell a gun, widget, whatever for $10,000, buy $10,000 in insurance, and the item is lost/stolen while in the care, custody and control of the USPS, I don’t understand how they can say value is less than the coverage THEY sold. It’s like having a million dollar term life policy and the carrier says the life was only worth $350,000 when premiums were paid for $1,000,000 of coverage.

 

[Tanks]

With a valid ID included in the mail.

Never included a valid id in the mail, and I have shipped plenty.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

BTW - If you are counting on trying to collect any money resulting from a damaged firearm during shipping from UPS, FedEx, USPS or any other carrier...good luck.

You need to insure your firearms the same way you would insure a car or house. There are a few companies out there that offer good rates on these types of services, but I've never used one. Although I will be looking into something like this in the future.

I'm dealing with UPS on a claim and getting the run around.

I ship USPS on all firearms except handguns. If I'm selling one, I clearly state the purchaser must get a label from their FFL or there is a "handling fee" to cover the cost of my local FFL adding it to their books and shipping it.

 

[thriller]

I have only had to file one (thankfully) insurance claim with USPS on a damaged firearm. After initially being denied you will see a portion of the letter that accompanied the payment. Seriously, this is real.

View attachment 597658

Ha I have had 3 one was a purdey 12 ga(dropped out of truck on interstate in New Jersey and run over) one was a JP sauer 3000 drilling (run over) and one was a drilling they just lost. At not point did they admit fault and third party insurance covered them.

 

[BeeMaa]

I'm dealing with UPS on a claim and getting the run around.

I ship USPS on all firearms except handguns. If I'm selling one, I clearly state the purchaser must get a label from their FFL or there is a "handling fee" to cover the cost of my local FFL adding it to their books and shipping it.

I wish you the best of luck my friend.

 

[HankBuck]

I realize damage claims can be controversial, but if I sell a gun, widget, whatever for $10,000, buy $10,000 in insurance, and the item is lost/stolen while in the care, custody and control of the USPS, I don’t understand how they can say value is less than the coverage THEY sold. It’s like having a million dollar term life policy and the carrier says the life was only worth $350,000 when premiums were paid for $1,000,000 of coverage.

RR314: So are you “shocked” that their Insurance/Claims Department will fight a Claim?? We All need to make sure our Life Insurance Policy is in good standing because UPS & Fedx will fight our claims “to the Death”.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I wish you the best of luck my friend.

I’ve almost chalked it up to nothing is gonna happen