Semi-Autos and Public Ranges

[mdwest]

Im an AR owner/shooter.. so I TRY to be understanding of the other AR/Semi shooters.. but there seem to be a disproportionate number of knuckleheads that love shooting their AR's at the range these days..

between unsafe gun handling, insane brakes that make your ears try to fall off despite wearing proper protection, and just general assbaggery behavior.. Ive gotten to where I only go to one of my local ranges (there are 4 in the DFW area that are within reasonable distance that I will go to on occasion) when its absolutely necessary (running short on time and need to confirm zero on a rifle before a hunt.. or something to that effect)...

2 of the ranges are indoors.. which is nice.. but combine assclowns with their 10" bbl AR pistols with their 600 decibel creating brakes with concrete floors and walls.. and the noise levels are absolutely unbearable.. both indoor ranges have lexan walls between every station.. so you dont have to worry about getting pelted with hot brass.. but the stations are fairly close together which puts their rifle muzzles less than 4' away.. and even with the wall in between it just makes for a very uncomfortable experience..

the other 2 ranges are outdoors.. neither have walls between stations.. so you now add in the hot brass scenario.. and the 100+ degree texas summer heat.. along with the muzzle brakes and the assclownery thats constantly going on.. and once again you have a pretty miserable experience..

the only way I have found to really mitigate any of this is to go to the range in the middle of the week, fairly early in the day.. most of the time I will be the only person on the range.. or one of just a couple of people.. and we can be generously separated..

Ive also set up a 100 and 200 yard KD range at my deer lease that I now primarily use for sighting in rifles, confirming zero, etc.. thats a 3 hour drive from the house.. so I dont use it often... but any time Im out there working outside of deer season I take advantage of it and squeeze off a few rounds in a couple of different rifles..

 

[mark-hunter]

O, man!
You guys are so passionate and tough!

Did I ever have, somebody throwing hot brass at me?
Yes.

Did I ever have somebody blasting sand and dirt at me during match, on the range, with their muzzle brakes (like with 338 LM)?
Yes

Did I ever have somebody shooting at my target, by mistake, during match or during training?
Yes
(especially when distances are longer like 300, 600 meters, less experienced people focused on bulls eye, with narrowed angle high power scopes at max power, and forgetting to identify target number in the corner before pulling the trigger)

Did I ever have somebody coming to public range without targets, ear muffs, glasses, range bag, or a basic tool set to range, then needing to fix something and asking for advise, or help - deeply disturbing me in my work of art?
Yes.

Generally, all is sorted out with a friendly talk, and / or explanation to safety range officer during the match. (Guilty ones on the match get their score reduced, or get disqualified).

But all over, my experiences are in most cases friendly exchange with fixing the immediate problem.
Unexperienced shooters, more over, get benefit of friendly advise, and are grateful.

However it is immediate duty of range officer to settle the safety matters and individual grievances, and my own intervention was always friendly when range officer was not present during training.

You guys wanna sue?
o, man, no wonder so many ambulance chasers around!
Common, lets have a good time at the range.

I also had but very few times, different approach.
Unsafe shooters, moving the muzzle 360 degrees. Fingers on trigger and similar, And very rough, unpleasant and loud on the range. The worst kind.

But that kind of situation I could remember, on maybe two occasions in last 15 years.
I would just leave, and come back later.
There is a bar near by, I would go over for a cup of coffee, and would come later.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

O, man!
You guys are so passionate and tough!

Did I ever have, somebody throwing hot brass at me?
Yes.

Did I ever have somebody blasting sand and dirt at me during match, on the range, with their muzzle brakes (like with 338 LM)?
Yes

Did I ever have somebody shooting at my target, by mistake, during match or during training?
Yes
(especially when distances are longer like 300, 600 meters, less experienced people focused on bulls eye, with narrowed angle high power scopes at max power, and forgetting to identify target number in the corner before pulling the trigger)

Did I ever have somebody coming to public range without targets, ear muffs, glasses, range bag, or a basic tool set to range, then needing to fix something and asking for advise, or help - deeply disturbing me in my work of art?
Yes.

Generally, all is sorted out with a friendly talk, and / or explanation to safety range officer during the match. (Guilty ones on the match get their score reduced, or get disqualified).

But all over, my experiences are in most cases friendly exchange with fixing the immediate problem.
Unexperienced shooters, more over, get benefit of friendly advise, and are grateful.

However it is immediate duty of range officer to settle the safety matters and individual grievances, and my own intervention was always friendly when range officer was not present during training.

You guys wanna sue?
o, man, no wonder so many ambulance chasers around!
Common, lets have a good time at the range.

I also had but very few times, different approach.
Unsafe shooters, moving the muzzle 360 degrees. Fingers on trigger and similar, And very rough, unpleasant and loud on the range. The worst kind.

But that kind of situation I could remember, on maybe two occasions in last 15 years.
I would just leave, and come back later.
There is a bar near by, I would go over for a cup of coffee, and would come later.

Well I'm not sure your post is pointed towards me or partially so. As mentioned I'm not the kind of person that is inclined to sue, nor do I have any intention of doing so. And while my personal safety is on the list of concerns, the chief concern is for the welfare of the range. This issue isn't over yet in part because the leadership at the range so far is inclined to do nothing this includes after having been informed by me about the burn.

I mentioned the word sue as others would not be inclined as me and would jump at the opportunity to put money in their pockets. This in turn would result in a claim against their insurance. This happens enough and/or in a sever situation such as someone being severely injured or killed and I can envision a situation where the range is closed.

Not chasing an ambulance here, I'm trying to avoid one from being called to the range in the first place. So far the management of the range doesn't seem to care about that near as much as I do.

 

[BRICKBURN]

....

I'm really not one to sue and have no intention of doing so. I have a heart for my club and want it to stay in business. When it comes to safety issues it only takes one sever eff-up and the kind inclined to sue to put that existence into jeopardy.

Legal action is just a large attention getting stick after all conversation fails.
If the Board or Manager will not enforce a safety policy then they need a wake up call.

After watching YOUTUBE and the wild muzzle gyrations that ensued when hot brass hit skin I can easily imagine the carnage.

Good luck with finding the positive solution.

PS: My range requires the use of an online booking system and you know where everyone is going to be shooting and when. It is much easier to avoid other shooters, both physically with space and time through this booking system.

 

[Tanks]

...

So if you've borne with my rant this far, I have a question for you. If you shoot at a range where this problem I've described with flying brass isn't a problem, please explain the range setup. ...

I get my own bay. The range I go for 200 yards have the benches spread pretty far apart that the brass is not an issue, and it is mostly bolt guys anyway.

 

[PARA45]

That is because no one in Kalifornia wants to be caught with their ARs in public.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Well I spoke to an individual at Ben Avery. This is the range that is about twice as far for me to get to. The nice lady confirmed that they do have screens in place that extend from the ceiling down to the height of the benches. Problem solved it would seem. I plan to check it out this weekend in spite of the heat.....I'm so motivated by frustration with my current club. Pictures will be taken and emailed to my current club.

Now while it is twice as far involving that much more driving time and gasoline, the price is only $7 for a 90 minute session. This should translate to at least four 15 minute firing volleys with breaks to check targets in between volleys. This about the length of my usual trip to the range.

So when you break it down, the reduced price to shoot at least partially offsets the extra fuel spent. And if there's no more raining brass, I'm there. Hopefully I can still affect a change at my current range.

 

[mdwest]

Now while it is twice as far involving that much more driving time and gasoline, the price is only $7 for a 90 minute session. This should translate to at least four 15 minute firing volleys with breaks to check targets in between volleys. This about the length of my usual trip to the range.

I'd love to find a $7/90 minute range!

Rifle Gear has a nice 100 yard indoor range in the northern DFW area.. its $30 for 1 hour per shooter.. (if the wife and I go, its $60 for each of us to get in maybe 2-3 strings of fire)..

Texas Legends in Allen is $28.. if the range is empty they'll let you shoot as much as you like.. but during peak periods they limit you to 1 hour and 15 minutes..they have a 50 yard indoor range (cant really do a whole lot there.. but its super close and convienient to my house.. so I hit them occasionally)..

Elm Fork (outdoor range) is $22 for either a pistol or a rifle lane.. if you want to shoot both, you pay for two lanes.. (no pistols on rifle.. no rifles on pistols.. and you cant just switch at will... you pay to shoot either location...

Eagle Peak in Garland is $25.. its pretty run down.. but at least that $25 gets you access to everything for as long as you want to be there.. you can shoot pistol, shotgun, 50 yard rifle, 100 yard rifle..

 

[503]

Bring a friend with you and have him sit 2 seats to your left with an AR and a pile of mags. If someone starts dropping brass on you have your friend start mag dumping and drop more brass on them.

Cheers

503

 

[mark-hunter]

Well I'm not sure your post is pointed towards me or partially so.

Not particularly to you, I see above some sharp opinions, "ready to sue".

 

[Rob404]

I guess I'm lucky, I manage to shoot mid week and I get to my range early enough to set up as far left as I can, occasionally my shooting buddy will bring one of his POS AKs just to have some fun, but he uses some kind of a brass catcher because he reloads.

 

[steve white]

Could you carry in a tall, 1/2 sheet of plywood and lean it up/ tie it up to your left?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Could you carry in a tall, 1/2 sheet of plywood and lean it up/ tie it up to your left?

i'm sure that would be greatly frowned upon but I like the thinking.

 

[cash_tx]

Im an AR owner/shooter.. so I TRY to be understanding of the other AR/Semi shooters.. but there seem to be a disproportionate number of knuckleheads that love shooting their AR's at the range these days..

between unsafe gun handling, insane brakes that make your ears try to fall off despite wearing proper protection, and just general assbaggery behavior.. Ive gotten to where I only go to one of my local ranges (there are 4 in the DFW area that are within reasonable distance that I will go to on occasion) when its absolutely necessary (running short on time and need to confirm zero on a rifle before a hunt.. or something to that effect)...

2 of the ranges are indoors.. which is nice.. but combine assclowns with their 10" bbl AR pistols with their 600 decibel creating brakes with concrete floors and walls.. and the noise levels are absolutely unbearable.. both indoor ranges have lexan walls between every station.. so you dont have to worry about getting pelted with hot brass.. but the stations are fairly close together which puts their rifle muzzles less than 4' away.. and even with the wall in between it just makes for a very uncomfortable experience..

the other 2 ranges are outdoors.. neither have walls between stations.. so you now add in the hot brass scenario.. and the 100+ degree texas summer heat.. along with the muzzle brakes and the assclownery thats constantly going on.. and once again you have a pretty miserable experience..

the only way I have found to really mitigate any of this is to go to the range in the middle of the week, fairly early in the day.. most of the time I will be the only person on the range.. or one of just a couple of people.. and we can be generously separated..

Ive also set up a 100 and 200 yard KD range at my deer lease that I now primarily use for sighting in rifles, confirming zero, etc.. thats a 3 hour drive from the house.. so I dont use it often... but any time Im out there working outside of deer season I take advantage of it and squeeze off a few rounds in a couple of different rifles..

I still need to get my bench and target setup, but you're always welcome to go to my place up north. It's not necessarily "close", but only an hour's drive.

Once all this rain stops, that is... ;-)

 

[meigsbucks]

I primarily shoot at an Ohio DNR range. There aren’t any screens between the benches. Fortunately,, at least on weekdays (a perk of being retired), is that probably 80-90% of rifles are bolt guns. Also, it usually isn’t extremely busy and there is often a bench between shooters. Additionally, quite a few shooters of AR’s use some form of brass catcher or screen. My bigger complaint, like @Trogon, is muzzle brakes. One guy is usually at bench #1, shooting a Ruger Precision in .300 Win mag with a brake.
However, I still have been pelted with my share of hot .223 brass. At the shorter pistol range, you’re almost assured to get pelted by hot brass.
During the winter, I shoot handguns at an indoor range, which has dividers between each station.
Like @Trogon, muzzle brakes are a bigger issue for me. Example: There is a guy with a braked .300 Win mag Ruger Precision. He’s usually at bench #1 and I’m several benches down. I can still feel the blast. I always wear double hearing protection.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

@PHOENIX PHIL I jumped in to read the original post out of amusement this morning and started seeing red

Spitting brass onto another human being and or their property. I can't even fathom it.

I am all for behavior modification:

1. Obtain that shooters insurance information and make an injury and property damage claim.
Bloody hell, golfers are held responsible for the projectiles they send off. Be that thrown clubs or errant balls.

2. Obtain Rifle ranges insurance information and make an injury and property damage claim.
Perhaps someone will bring that risk up at a meeting and start to enforce some level of decorum.
(I know, they likely have some blanket its not my fault waiver)

3. The child in me wants you to send the brass back in every passive aggressive manner possible.

4. Structural changes, like reserving the left firing positions for bolts is a great idea. My range has an area that has three positions removed from the rest, technically a shed on the left end. It allows me to hide from the boys shooting their headache machines.

5. It got me wondering about my local range and what they do. Nothing, because a little wiener

View attachment 610988

or his ilk have banned a clip that could ever possibly cause an issue. I apologize for sidetracking the thread now.


I really hope you get to find a considerate and reasonable solution.

Not sure why a govt restricted seven shot clip could be any more or less dangerous/annoying at the range than a fifty shot banana clip. Semiautos throwing empties iniscriminantly are the problem, not magazine capacity.

 

[Bullthrower338]

Well Phil, you are a better man than me, he would have had a hard time removing that AR after I inserted in mag deep in his ass! I don’t use a public range much these days and when I do it is for clays or pistol shooting. But when I have brought an AR to a range it always has a brass catcher on it just for this reason. I have the adapter on just about every AR style rifle I have and keep the bag in my range kit. Simple enough and also saves picking up brass or in the rare case someone that may just be mean enough to shove that rifle up your impolite ass!

 

[SFRanger7GP]

I am very fortunate. I pay $50 a year (family rate) for the private range in Wichita Falls. It's 15 minutes from my house and members have an electronic gate key. Open from can see to can't see. It is not the best maintained, but it is plenty good enough. I go during the week and normally have the range to myself.

I could not tolerate some of the issues others are having. Common sense and common courtesy are not so common anymore.

Safe shooting

 

[Saul]

I am often accused of being a stickler for gun safety, but as many other have attested to here, the etiquette, basic safety, and common decency at many shooting ranges is severely lacking. I put up with it when I have to but I much prefer shooting at a private range.

For me, the even greater annoyance is that my wife is not much of a gun person but she is a good sport and will always shoot with me when I ask. However, she has been made very uncomfortable on more than one occasion by irresponsible morons dumping their semi autos right next to her.

 

[Certus]

Unfortunately shooting mid-afternoons in Phoenix is a no-go this time of year. We're headed for 110 later this week.

Even better! Almost guaranteed less busy