Scope Zero Dependability?

[Justbryan]

Not that you’re necessarily wrong, but not everyone hunts/shoots the same way or place that you do.

In the terrain I have typically hunted the past few years, it would be impossible to expect to never slip/trip/fall at some point during a cumulative few weeks of hunting during the year. A person might make it with never ending up on their bum and their rifle/gear on the dirt/rocks, but it’s probably closer to guaranteed they will fall than closer to a coin flip if they fall or not. So being careful is great, but it doesn’t mean your scope won’t be subject to an abusive moment at some point or two.

I agree, it was meant as sarcasms and to be taken as a joke. It is hard to read sarcasm in a post!

My wife would tell you that I rough on everything. Yes, I am as careful as possible, but you are right, stuff happens.

 

[mauserhunter]

But how tough is NF really? Where do they get challenged? They are almost exclusively on bench guns. They have the cool factor, I know that.

Think I've seen where they used a nf to hammer in nails then check zero right there, to bat the didn't make more of a lower power hunting scope.

 

[Inline6]

But how tough is NF really? Where do they get challenged? They are almost exclusively on bench guns. They have the cool factor, I know that.

Nightforce are some of the toughest scopes made. You might be thinking of their BR models? I don't know, NF is the scope you pull it off your rifle, hammer a nail in a board, mount the scope back and it holds zero. The Vortex Razor line is built like that too.

As far as Leupold goes, I absolutely love the fact the are made in America. Unfortunately I have not seen the best track record from them over the years. During classes if a scope went down it was almost always a Leupold. Same thing at matches, I just lost faith in them after the amount of failures I have personally witnessed.

I have had 3 different S&Bs fail to maintain zero. It would just drift a few 10th one way or another. TT had 1 that did the same thing, it was the only one I had was going to try another. Khales rifle scopes had 2 of the 6X24 fail to maintain zero and both had a weird parallax issues. Could shoot a 8" plate at 600 yards on 15X center punch it, without touching anything else go to 24X and miss the target completely. Reset parallax and hit the target, without touching move the power back to 15X miss the target. That cost me a lot of points in matches (I was sponsored by Khales at the time). It was after that I went to Vortex and NF for my comp rigs. Have not had a problem with either of them. I am running a March Genesis 4X40 on my 22lr, have hits out to 800 yards with it. I'm still testing that scope out. So far I only have 2800 rounds of 22lr on it. It will pretty much always live on that rifle. Tracking has been true, glass is great, durability we will have to wait to see. It is a target scope and I'm using it in field type matches.

With all that said, most scopes I have seen fail in some fashion. It is what happens when you use gear. Or don't install the the product properly. My .02

 

[poco]

That rok slide test is ridiculously biased, I don’t do turret dialing scopes and that test is all about messing with the dials and dropping them to check tracking
I love Burris brand and leopold and have never seen a failure
my m70 .300 had a Burris that traveled from the equator to the arctic circle for 25 years
I don’t do Swarovski or Zeiss except for spotting scope so have nada to contribute about them on a rifle

 

[Inline6]

Nightforce are some of the toughest scopes made. You might be thinking of their BR models? I don't know, NF is the scope you pull it off your rifle, hammer a nail in a board, mount the scope back and it holds zero. The Vortex Razor line is built like that too.

As far as Leupold goes, I absolutely love the fact the are made in America. Unfortunately I have not seen the best track record from them over the years. During classes if a scope went down it was almost always a Leupold. Same thing at matches, I just lost faith in them after the amount of failures I have personally witnessed.

I have had 3 different S&Bs fail to maintain zero. It would just drift a few 10th one way or another. TT had 1 that did the same thing, it was the only one I had was going to try another. Khales rifle scopes had 2 of the 6X24 fail to maintain zero and both had a weird parallax issues. Could shoot a 8" plate at 600 yards on 15X center punch it, without touching anything else go to 24X and miss the target completely. Reset parallax and hit the target, without touching move the power back to 15X miss the target. That cost me a lot of points in matches (I was sponsored by Khales at the time). It was after that I went to Vortex and NF for my comp rigs. Have not had a problem with either of them. I am running a March Genesis 4X40 on my 22lr, have hits out to 800 yards with it. I'm still testing that scope out. So far I only have 2800 rounds of 22lr on it. It will pretty much always live on that rifle. Tracking has been true, glass is great, durability we will have to wait to see. It is a target scope and I'm using it in field type matches.

With all that said, most scopes I have seen fail in some fashion. It is what happens when you use gear. Or don't install the the product properly. My .02

Forgot to mention had a 30 year old Nikon that the parallax failed. Was mounted to a 300WM Browning A Bolt. It was a decent scope for the money 30 years ago.

Also have a cheap Vortex that was mounted on my Bergara BMR. I had it leaned against the wall. My puppy came to say hello and knocked it over. It landed on the bell and actually deformed the objective housing of the scope it it so hard (tile floor). I picked it up walked to the back porch. Deployed the bipod and sent 5 rounds into a 2" swinging target at 50 yards, I then went for the .5" target and was dancing around it. That's when I noticed the base actually came loose too. Moved that scope to my sons 10/22, it has done everything perfectly fine.

Had a 4X32X56 Vortex Black diamond (I think it was 16 years ago) it was mounted on a Kidd 10/22, parallax failed in 20 rds. They replaced it (it was like 180.00 scope back then I knew what I was buying). The second one hammered and I won 7 matches in a row with it. Was shooting sub 2" groups at 200 yards with it til I sold the rig.

Meopita 1.7X10 on my 375h&h parallax failed 1.5 weeks before we were to leave for Africa. They went above and beyond making sure I had a scope for that trip. The replacement has been solid. Killed my Zebra just inside of 300 yards with it.

So far, all the scope manufacturers that I have used warranty services with have been good to great to deal with. I will definitely have to give exceptional to Meopita, they made things right and did not bat an eye. (I would hope other would have done the same, in this day in age you just can't 100% count on that. )

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

There are a lot of great, reliable rifle scopes available today. I bought my first Leupold in 1981, a M8 4X. That scope promptly sported a inch long deep scratch but it held zero. Today I own perhaps two dozen Leupolds. They are great scopes which meet the requirements for all but perhaps the most severe hunting conditions. Chances are they do meet those requirements also.

Leupolds do not however always "track" as they should. Tracking is moving the windage and/or elevation knobs for a certain distance or MOA and the bullets hit the target at the intended new location. Or, move up xx and left xy and then reverse the adjustments. The scope should be back on zero. Hmmm... My Leupold VX-5 2-10x doesn't track well enough for shooting matches. It does however hold a zero once set.

Don't get me wrong, I picked out a new Leupold VX-6 Patrol capped turrets 1-6x scope for my Christmas present. I ordered it during a Leupold sale and used my military discount for 38% total off retail. What a great company!!!

For my money, the scopes I'd bet my life on if given the choice are Night Force. They are tested closet to MIL-STD-810 (Military Standard 810). That's the "shake and bake" environmental tests that military equipment must pass to be "fielded" to service personnel. I posted links to Night Force testing a month or so ago. It's more than I'd put volunteer one of my scopes for. Luckily, Night Force already tested their products to such standards.

Now, Night Force NSX, NS8, and ATACR product lines have steel tubes and are heavier than similar aluminum tube scopes. Further, Night Force glass while more than adequate may not be provide the highest level of light transmission on any available scopes. One may however NOT be able to perceive the difference.

In most cases, a comparable Night Force will be a little more reliable after a beating than a Leupold. If one doesn't use those scopes as sledgehammers they will probably never find out! Leupolds are great scopes and dollar for dollar a great buy!

Finally, a lot of problems with rifle scopes are operator induced. This bag of bad things include scope mounting (wrong bases improper installation, not using Lock Tight on the screws, and so on), mis-adjustments in windage and elevation, and mis-using quick release mounts.

For quick release, Talley's tag line is "Nothing tougher than a Talley". If properly mounted and operated (dismount and remount) they may be right. Warne also makes a tougher than nails return to zero quick release mount for Picatinny Rails. Of course there are EAW pivot (side swing) mounts that are golden! Otherwise, I've seen quick release mounts from other makers and scratched my head wondering how the heck those things were supposed to work...

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

I've always loved Leupold scopes, and have several on several rifles.

Recently, my son (A Gen Z'er) has started giving me a hard time about my love for Leupolds and European scopes, because a guy on another site does serious scope testing and has found that almost nothing except Nightforce, Trijicon, and SWFA scopes will hold zero after being subject to rough (well, abusive) field testing.

If they held zero, Leupold would be the tester's favorite, because of the reticles and ergonomics, but he has found that the old fixed-power 10X scope (now discountinued) is the only one he has ever tested that would hold zero when dropped, bounced around, etc.

I have had to re-zero my best scopes (Leupold and Zeiss) after long, rough travel.


What are your experiences?

IMO the 3 best & toughest scopes in the world are Zeiss, Swaro & Schmidt & Bender.

Just my opinion.

I've never had to re-zero any of them. I do use Pelican gun cases for travel though.

 

[JimP]

I've had two outfitters tell me to stay away from Swaro's as far as durability. Both outfitters used horses and said that after a horse rolls around with a rifle in the scabbard with a Swaro on you will need to replace the scope before hunting.

Another one who hunts Arizona says Swaro's and rocks just don't get along. He swore by Leopold's and Nightforce.

 

[SDPlinker]

Thank goodness for TikTok wisdom!

 

[zephyr]

For me My only complaint with NF scopes is there is too much Turret stuff going on..
Even Leupold's VX-5HD 1.5x5 has a CDS reticle gotta pay extra to have that turret capped
For normal hunting ranges I don't need to dial anything or adjust parralax..
For normal hunting ranges ... Give me 2 small capped unobtrusive turrets and a duplex reticle and I'm good

 

[mark-hunter]

For normal hunting ranges ... Give me 2 small capped unobtrusive turrets and a duplex reticle and I'm good

me too. More gadgets in hunting, more problems to follow.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Custom dial turrets do have their place, I had Kenton industries, make custom turrets for my Nightforce for two different calibers. It’s nice just to change the turret out and you’re ready to go for that next caliber, my Swarovski’s and Leupold have custom dialed turrets. Instead of carrying multiple caliber rifles and a scope for each caliber, just carry a several ounce turret and within two minutes, you have a scope dialed for the other Cal.

But those are made to a certain elevation, temperature, and bullet BC

 

[Red Leg]

Like many here I have used them all. Currently most of my rifles carry Leica, S&B, or Leupold. But there are at least five or six Swaros and a couple of Khales. There is one Vortex and there won't be a second. I just don't care for the whole tacticool with respect to NF including all the extra knobs - and who dreams up those reticles?

The only one of those that has given me a problem was a Leica that inexplicably moved nearly five inches between sight verification and first shot at a game animal. It was replaced by Leica.

Like @Mark A Ouellette, I have used Talley mounts on nearly everything but Blaser for more than twenty years. I have found them to be totally reliable and won't go to Africa without them.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Talley mounts are hard to beat. I’ve never had a defect or had to lap them.

 

[WAB]

I have quite a collection of Swarovski, Zeiss and Leupold scopes. I have never had an issue with a Swarovski scope. I have had one Zeiss and two Leupolds that have had to go in for repair over the years.

I use predominantly Talley and EAW mounts. I do have some specialty mounts on my long range rigs and my AR’s.

I have traveled extensively to hunt. I have never had an issue with a rifle holding zero on a hunt. However, my rifles are put through pretty extensive prep before the hunt.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Bobro Engineering make some nice heavy duty quick detach. Almost over built,

As do a lot of other small custom shops.

 

[375Fox]

This was posted on a different thread not long ago. I found it very interesting.

 

[dchum]

Talley mounts are hard to beat. I’ve never had a defect or had to lap them.

All I use now. They will call you and tell you the your order shipped and confirm with you.
Great people and maybe even better rings.

I love the one piece aluminum. So simple and light and have been incredibly rugged for me.

 

[375Fox]

For me My only complaint with NF scopes is there is too much Turret stuff going on..
Even Leupold's VX-5HD 1.5x5 has a CDS reticle gotta pay extra to have that turret capped
For normal hunting ranges I don't need to dial anything or adjust parralax..
For normal hunting ranges ... Give me 2 small capped unobtrusive turrets and a duplex reticle and I'm good

Since Leupold doesn’t have a custom shop anymore who can you have the turrets capped by? I hate CDS as the only option, but I couldn’t find a way to have them capped.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Since Leupold doesn’t have a custom shop anymore who can you have the turrets capped by? I hate CDS as the only option, but I couldn’t find a way to have them capped.

The 6HD Patrol is available with capped turrets:

PATROL 6HD 1-6x24 ILLUM. FIREDOT DUPLEX

With the Patrol 6HD, you can hit the field without worry. Its ultra-lightweight, low-profile design and 1-6 magnification range let you engage threats anywhere from tight corners to open fields. Whether your mission is to protect and serve or you're looking for an edge in competition, this...

www.leupold.com

My wonderful wife gave me one for Christmas (of course I ordered it with my military discount...).

I also have a Nightforce NX8 1-8x with capped turrets. The only thing I don't like about this scope is it is first focal plane (F1 or FFP).

NX8 - 1-8x24mm F1 Capped - Nightforce Optics

At only 8.75“ in length and 17 ounces, the NX8™ 1-8X24 F1 is a powerful, compact, and lightweight riflescope. New for 2022, The NX8™ 1-8X24 F1 is now available with a capped elevation turret to ensure the elevation adjustment is not accidentally moved during transit or rough handling.

www.nightforceoptics.com

Nightforce also offers their higher lever ATACR 1-8x with capped turrets. Once again, only in first focal plane.
https://www.nightforceoptics.com/riflescopes/atacr/atacr-1-8x24-f1/

In FFP scopes, the crosshairs get larger as magnification increases. Traditional second plane scopes' crosshairs stay the same size as magnification increases.

Unfortunately neither Leupold nor Nightforce offer scoped of higher scope of higher magnification with capped turrets. At least not that I know of...