Scientists Call For Halt To Elephant Hunting Along Kenya-Tanzania Border

[Saul]

I wonder why the article did not link to the actual letter.

 

[wesheltonj]

Why the agreement in the first place? Because Kenya does not recognize good game management and is anti hunting?! If they wanted more big tuskers maybe they shouldn't implemented a total hunting ban back in the 70's if I remember correctly. Outside the parks the elephant are almost gone (read poached and sold by complicit government officials)

Good riddance that the agreement is gone. If the elephants are old and spread their genes already hunt them. Let the community benefit of the financial rewards and motivate them to actively protect the next generation of big tuskers until they are old enough to be hunted.

And last the agreement expired ergo no agreement.

The problem Is they are not old beyond breeding age and fair game. They are prime breeding age and their genetics give them super tusker status at a young age. I believe that one killed was 35-40 years old and with Ivory in excess of 100 pounds each. That’s exactly the type of elephant you want breeding passing on its genes.

I suspect the written agreement will return.

 

[HankBuck]

Scientists call for halt to elephant hunting along Kenya-Tanzania border

According to scientists, five male adult elephants with tusks weighing more than 45 kg were shot by trophy hunters in Tanzania in late 2023 and early 202.

www.theeastafrican.co.ke

A group of international scientists said Thursday that the hunting of elephants along the Kenya-Tanzania border for their tusks should be stopped to save the giant land mammals from extinction.

In a letter published by Science, an international journal, 24 biologists, zoologists, and conservationists warned against trophy hunting of elephants along the Amboseli ecosystem that spans the Kenya-Tanzania border amid threat to tourism and the livelihoods of local communities.

According to scientists, five male adult elephants with tusks weighing more than 45 kg were shot by trophy hunters in Tanzania in late 2023 and early 2024, posing a new threat to the survival of the iconic giant herbivore.
A group of international scientists said Thursday that the hunting of elephants along the Kenya-Tanzania border for their tusks should be stopped to save the giant land mammals from extinction.

In a letter published by Science, an international journal, 24 biologists, zoologists, and conservationists warned against trophy hunting of elephants along the Amboseli ecosystem that spans the Kenya-Tanzania border amid threat to tourism and the livelihoods of local communities.

According to scientists, five male adult elephants with tusks weighing more than 45 kg were shot by trophy hunters in Tanzania in late 2023 and early 2024, posing a new threat to the survival of the iconic giant herbivore.
These elephants, according to wildlife biologists, were among the most magnificent species of the cross-border population studied for 51 years by the Amboseli Elephant Research Project (AERP) in Kenya.

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@Hoas - You’ve got to do better then that…at least give the appearance of objectivity. It’s difficult to believe that “scientists” support Kenya’s failed wildlife management system and also words like “Magnificent” are rarely found in scientific publications. After banning hunting for 50+ years - Kenya’s wildlife populations have continued to Decline…..despite having substantial annual revenue from a robust Tourist trade. Following Kenya’s wildlife management plan would be like following Somolia’s economic & crime prevention plan

 

[DieJager]

The problem Is they are not old beyond breeding age and fair game.

Sorry for my wording , had to be more precise. I mean old enough to have spread their genes. I said that somewhat different but that is what I mean. Elephants bulls are almost never to old beyond breeding age because they can breed even in their sixties.

So when would be the correct age to hunt them? Honest question.

I can also see that some guidelines are needed like age. What would for you be appropriate to hunt a big tusker or are you categorically against hunting them.

 

[HankBuck]

Sorry for my wording , had to be more precise. I mean old enough to have spread their genes. I said that somewhat different but that is what I mean. Elephants bulls are almost never to old beyond breeding age because they can breed even in their sixties.

So when would be the correct age to hunt them? Honest question.

I can also see that some guidelines are needed like age. What would for you be appropriate to hunt a big tusker or are you categorically against hunting them.

@DieJager - I thought (was told by two PH’s in TZ) that elephant rarely live beyond late 40s——50 tops because their teeth wear down and they can’t ingest enough calories, weaken, and die?? I would think Bulls also don’t live as long as cows. But, I don’t really know and wonder if any Biologists or experts could chime in

 

[HankBuck]

Sorry for my wording , had to be more precise. I mean old enough to have spread their genes. I said that somewhat different but that is what I mean. Elephants bulls are almost never to old beyond breeding age because they can breed even in their sixties.

So when would be the correct age to hunt them? Honest question.

I can also see that some guidelines are needed like age. What would for you be appropriate to hunt a big tusker or are you categorically against hunting them.

@DieJager - a Bull Elephant has the same genetics it was born with - regardless of its age - and therefore they are spreading those genes even years before their Tusks have reached max size. My assumption, which might be wrong, a Bull can be spreading great superior genetics many years even with broken tusks or tusks that have not reached Full Size. Also, will an old bull - regardless of giant tusks - get the opportunity to breed? I don’t see my Grandfather picking up hot chicks in the bar….the Younger guys are pushing him out of the way.

 

[Tanks]

A bit of info about the author of the letter, methinks she is not that objective.

Genetically predisposed to have some of the largest tusks on the African continent, the Amboseli elephants have historically been protected from both legal and illegal hunting, said Joyce Poole, director of ElephantVoices, an international elephant protection lobby, and a lead author of the letter.

 

[DieJager]

@HankBuck Therefore my question when is old enough to hunt I asked.

Maybe bulls do not get old often beyond 50 but I've read even in their sixties they can breed. So post breeding age is not really a thing. Of course stronger maybe younger bulls can displace them but even young bulls and weaker bulls will breed. Less change but still. So when is appropriate?

I would have no problem hunting a big tusker.

 

[HankBuck]

A bit of info about the author of the letter, methinks she is not that objective.

@Tanks - great catch on the Author/Director of “ElephantVoices”…next we can model whitetail deer seasons after Bambi

 

[dchum]

The problem Is they are not old beyond breeding age and fair game. They are prime breeding age and their genetics give them super tusker status at a young age. I believe that one killed was 35-40 years old and with Ivory in excess of 100 pounds each. That’s exactly the type of elephant you want breeding passing on its genes.

I suspect the written agreement will return.

I’m going to be blunt

You are on the wrong side of this.
Either you have fallen into the articles or you have your own opinion you formed that has no basis.

We have a operator Michel Mantheakis being ripped for killing a “super tusker” in 2024

His grandfathers killed many super tuskers (1890-1940) his father has hunted and killed many super tuskers (1950-1980?). Now a Mantheakis is here still hunting and killing big super tuskers. Because the GENETICS are still passed and the populations are still great. By your ideas they should all be gone because his grandpa and dad (same areas) killed all the good genetics off….but no they aren’t.

I mean no disrespect. But think about it

 

[HankBuck]

I’m going to be blunt

You are on the wrong side of this.
Either you have fallen into the articles or you have your own opinion you formed that has no basis.

We have a operator Michel Mantheakis being ripped for killing a “super tusker” in 2024

His grandfathers killed many super tuskers (1890-1940) his father has hunted and killed many super tuskers (1950-1980?). Now a Mantheakis is here still hunting and killing big super tuskers. Because the GENETICS are still passed and the populations are still great. By your ideas they should all be gone because his grandpa and dad (same areas) killed all the good genetics off….but no they aren’t.

I mean no disrespect. But think about it

@dchum: also, 50% of the “Super Tusker” Genetics are COWS - the handful of 60lb.+ bulls killed each year really have No measurable impact on overall herd genetics. But, If this argument gains traction - it can be applied to all horned, antlered, or ANY huntable animal. It will Not be an effective policy to protect any overall species but it will be very effectively used and labeled against “Trophy” hunting - giving it a foothold to argue against All hunting.

 

[cwpayton]

excuse me for getting off subject but we have a very simular gov. mess out west here with the "wild" horses. over populated, mismanaged by the BLM and truly a bazaar gov.program on the mandate d protection of them, a few are of spanish conquestidor heritage, most of pioneer heritage and alot are dumped in the dessert recently, .

 

[Sideshow]

@DieJager - a Bull Elephant has the same genetics it was born with - regardless of its age - and therefore they are spreading those genes even years before their Tusks have reached max size. My assumption, which might be wrong, a Bull can be spreading great superior genetics many years even with broken tusks or tusks that have not reached Full Size. Also, will an old bull - regardless of giant tusks - get the opportunity to breed? I don’t see my Grandfather picking up hot chicks in the bar….the Younger guys are pushing him out of the way.

@HankBuck the teeth wear down faster in areas where more courses sand gravel is mixed with the food that they ingest. So in say a delta where the plants can be washed before eating the teeth will wear slower.

 

[Tanner Lee]

Just to chime in for a quick moment, Blood Origins has done a few different episodes about this recently. Really worth the listen.

The thing I found so interesting is that they mentioned a study that is showing the elephants are moving south. Meaning Kenyan elephants are packing their bags to go live in TZ. Seems to me that Kenyan elephants have voted and they want to live in the TZ model.

The number that they mentioned over a few episodes is like 150 elephants are killed each year in Kenya while in TZ is like 50 ish.

Interesting issue but I have not heard anything that merits the stopping of hunt on the TZ side. But if there is good evidence to support that move then it would be the right thing to do. So far everything sounds like the same old arguments nothing new.

I could be wrong on that but I haven’t spent a huge amount of time reading over the topic.

 

[Sideshow]

Yeah I hear from a few of my mates in the tourism industry that this seems to be the case. What the reason is weather or poaching pressure who knows.
But 15 years ago the Elephants used to cross to the island of Larmu. Not today Trana river delta has also seen a drop in numbers but both are very close to the Somalia boarder.

 

[Frederik]

All Southern African countries with the exception of Mozambique in the northern side south of Tanzania has an elephant number boom and all of them allow hunting!!!!

If you want to know the Chinese with the forestry industry is the biggest culprit on wildlife decline in Nothern Moz.