School me on .416 taylor

[Riflecrank]

The Ruger M77 Mark II/Hawkeye is versatile for customization of a .416 Taylor.
You can make a DGR to suit any situation:

 

[Black Fly]

I built one on a tang safety Ruger with a 22" barrel. It was quick handling yet stable. Reloader 15 was my powder. I loved it, but sold it when I had to quit shooting big bores. John Wooters did a great article in Handloader and Ken Waters Pet Loads is a great reference. With a normal length action, in my experience it has the best power/performance/recoil and balance combination of serious rifles.
Get going on this, get one built. Make sure the stock fits you. Go hunt the world.
Bfly

I should have added, it makes a great whitetail rifle with 400 grain cast bullets and TrailBoss powder.

 

[Jefferry404]

This thread got me interested again in the Taylor. I was the guy that got the last Redding die from Midway, sorry about that. And hats off to Bill at Raven Rocks for stocking brass that folks want and cannot get anywhere else.
Was thinking to re-barrel 416 Ruger to the Taylor with Alaskan Arms bottom metal for that extra round.
Anyhow, got me thinking "do i need another..." and thought to compare Mr. Cranks favorite cartridge to the Taylor (in another thread, the 470 WinMag was quite favorable over the 458 due to small increase in case capacity and the larger diameter).
Steve

 

[Elkeater]

This thread got me interested again in the Taylor. I was the guy that got the last Redding die from Midway, sorry about that. And hats off to Bill at Raven Rocks for stocking brass that folks want and cannot get anywhere else.
Was thinking to re-barrel 416 Ruger to the Taylor with Alaskan Arms bottom metal for that extra round.
Anyhow, got me thinking "do i need another..." and thought to compare Mr. Cranks favorite cartridge to the Taylor (in another thread, the 470 WinMag was quite favorable over the 458 due to small increase in case capacity and the larger diameter).
Steve


View attachment 691246

So your the reason I went in to grab a set of dies and they weren’t there! Once I find a set of dies I’m going this way. Seeing as how does seem to be the only real issue with the Taylor I figure once I have those the rest of it is easy enough to find.

 

[cajunchefray]

So your the reason I went in to grab a set of dies and they weren’t there! Once I find a set of dies I’m going this way. Seeing as how does seem to be the only real issue with the Taylor I figure once I have those the rest of it is easy enough to find.

Midway says back order of 416 Taylor dies to be filled this week. I’d call Redding directly for information.
I figured some here bought that last set of dies, good snag!

I feel the inexorable draw for another 416 Taylor on the horizon.
First get dies, order a Lee Factory Crimp die. I still have some dummy rounds
Order a barrel with a 1/10” twist (like John Wooters used).

I’ll reform 458 Winchester brass using Imperial Sizing Die Wax.

 

[DLSJR]

If you are buying safari rifles or in this case building them for the just in case jumbo that escapes the circus then yes. Or maybe a one off African safari, maybe.

If you are serious about Africa and want a drama free cartridge, I would not build one. I have arrived at hunting destinations without ammo, either through my own Fudd-ness or through the Airlines.

I personally wouldn't do it.

I'd build a 416 Ruger.

If you just want a fun cartridge then do it.

Based on your reasoning, why a 416 Ruger??? Ammo for that cartridge would be almost as hard to find. A 416 Remington or Rigby would be much easier to find than the Ruger.

 

[Elkeater]

Based on your reasoning, why a 416 Ruger??? Ammo for that cartridge would be almost as hard to find. A 416 Remington or Rigby would be much easier to find than the Ruger.

I just looked yesterday and ammoseek listed a pretty fair amount of .416 Ruger factory ammo.

.416 Ruger Ammo

In-stock best prices for 416 Ruger Ammo | Cheap 416 Ruger Ammunition - AmmoSeek.com

ammoseek.com

 

[Muskox]

Based on your reasoning, why a 416 Ruger??? Ammo for that cartridge would be almost as hard to find. A 416 Remington or Rigby would be much easier to find than the Ruger.

A 416 Remington or 416 Rigby will not fit in a M77 Mark 2 though will it?

 

[Elkeater]

A 416 Remington or 416 Rigby will not fit in a M77 Mark 2 though will it?

Nope. 3.400” max COAL. 416 rem/rigby is minimum 3.600”

 

[Riflecrank]

This thread got me interested again in the Taylor. I was the guy that got the last Redding die from Midway, sorry about that. And hats off to Bill at Raven Rocks for stocking brass that folks want and cannot get anywhere else.
Was thinking to re-barrel 416 Ruger to the Taylor with Alaskan Arms bottom metal for that extra round.
Anyhow, got me thinking "do i need another..." and thought to compare Mr. Cranks favorite cartridge to the Taylor (in another thread, the 470 WinMag was quite favorable over the 458 due to small increase in case capacity and the larger diameter).
Steve


View attachment 691246

Jeffery404,
Now run those numbers and a graph for the 404-gr Stone Hammer and 400-gr CEB Safari Solid
2500 fps MV from the standard 3.4" magazine box
2600 fps MV from the H&H-length 3.6" magazine box
of a SAAMI-chambered .458 WIN MAG.
Those bullets will do better on paper and on game than any 500-grainer.

You might guess that I too was once as a grasshopper,
chewing on many things such as the .416 Taylor and bigger and smaller.
The .416 Taylor was particularly satisfying.
Finally I came to understand the ways of the .458 WIN MAG.
True enlightenment.
The Master DGR and Gamefield Dominator.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

So I recently posted asking about the .416 Ruger vs the .416 rem mag. I’m really itching for a big bore. Now the reason I had asked about the .416 Ruger was that I have a Ruger m77 II in .300 win that really doesn’t leave the safe. It’s nice. Classic walnut and blued steel and all that. It’s really at this point just become my Africa rifle as I have other rifles for my North American hunts which tend to be rougher affairs calling for things like carbon fiber and cerakote. Anyways to say all that due to availability of brass for the .416 Ruger and such I stumbled on the .416 Taylor. I had never heard of it before but I started wondering if anyone had necked .458 win mag down to .416 and lo and behold here we are. The reason I want the .416 caliber is that I want a bit of do all rifle for Africa but I have buffalo planned eventually and while I know the .375 H&H does the job I also know that many in here have touted the .416 caliber’s as hitting buffalo with much more authority. Looking at load data a 350gr ttsx at 2400fps would make a solid plains game load for some of the bigger animals like wildebeest and Eland (which is probably top of my list on my next trip) and loaded with a 400 gr northfork at 2300 would be a solid buff round.

So I guess what’s the thought on the .416 Taylor. Yay or nay? Are the velocities real or aspirational? Just seems like .458 win brass is easy to find and even headstamped .416 Taylor is out there.

Here’s the rifle I’m thinking of rebarreling btw.

View attachment 690813

@Elkeater
If'n y'all are thinking of the 416 Taylor why not the 425 Express. A bit more punch in the same case.
You can either neck up the 338 or neck down the 458. Proper head stamped brass is also available.
The one @Badboymelvin has is a real pussy cat and carries a lot of punch
Sorry to throw a new option in the pot.
Both would give you the power you want. Both are excellent rounds.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I am converting a savage bolt 30-06 over to a 416 taylor. I just bought the magnum head bolt for it. Bought 40 brass off GB. The barrel is a prefit savage.

@1:66 twiste@d
That's the beauty of the Savage rifles.
Basically a do it yourself job in half an hour.
Change bolt head, unscrew barrel and screw in new barrel.
No need for headspace gauges just a dummy round. Screw barrel in on dummy round until you get just the slightest resistance on chambering and tighten lock nut. Done.
Bob

 

[Kynoch2015]

Had one, loved it. Wish I had it back. Even if on the fence and like proper head stamped brass, I’d grab some. https://ravenrocksprecision.com/product/416-taylor-brass/ Can always barter later if you don’t get one.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Great cartridge, great choice of rifle for re-barreling. Here is mine:

View attachment 690953

View attachment 690954
Doing it again I might choose a 1:12" twist, as George Hoffman opined was best for his .416 Hoffman.
Their is also now a Bell & Carlson Medalist stock that is only a few ounces heavier than the Tupperware. Or the holy grail of beater stocks, the Zytel Canoe Paddle stock if you can find one in the parts bin.
Alaska Arms has a drop floor plate for it too, to add an extra round to magazine, and just a few ounces more.

If you want lighter weight, the No. 4 Sporter Contour is as skinny as you can go, for 24" length.
Shorten it more for greater muzzle diameter.
No. 4 or No. 5 sporters are the only choices within reasonableness, IMHO.

James Watts claimed he did a .416 Watts Short with 2.5" case, gave some dummies to Jack O'Connor
who passed them onto Robert Chatfield-Taylor who got the cartridge named for him. See the Cal Pappas book on James Watts.

Just be sure your reamer and the handloading dies match.
Their is also a .416/.338 WM out there that Bob Hagel championed.
Here is the match used for my rifle:

View attachment 690961

View attachment 690963

Here are the Ken Waters "Pet Loads" and the Bob Hagel loads following below.

Ken Waters:

View attachment 690964

Bob Hagel:

View attachment 690965

My rifle is an oddball for having 26" barrel, but it makes it easier to get 2400 fps with 400-grainers
or 2700 fps with 300-grainers. A real African Sheep Rifle if ever there was one.
That is all we expect from a .416 Rigby or a 404 Jeffery without overdoing it.
A 24" barrel is enough to do that.
Wiser now, I would use HODGDON VARGET EXTREME to replace the RL-15, grain for grain, starting low and working up.
Less lot-to-lot variation and better temperature insensitivity.

My "R-P case" was .458 WIN MAG simply run into the FL die.
The fire-forming load is good to go hunting.
Later I got some Quality Cartridge brass with proper headstamp, seemed identical to the R-P.

Thanks for the reloading data. I’ve only reloaded original 400gr. Barnes X bullets so far in mine under 70gr of RL-15 for a medium practice load. I believe that bullet is the same as the Colorado Bullet Company’s 400gr. before they changed their name to Barnes Bullets. Anyway, I have been looking for practice loads using W748 because I have a lot of it and RL-15 is mostly unobtanium. Thanks!

 

[CoElkHunter]

My Taylor likes 70 grains of Reloader 15 pushing a 400gr projectile. I have not cronoed this load, but it is very accurate in my rifle.

+1. The felt recoil with that same load seems fairly mild to me in my 8.5lb unscoped 23” barreled Interarms Whitworth rifle.

 

[Kynoch2015]

There’s a great older article in Handloader. Worth a read.

 

[Muskox]

@1:66 twiste@d
That's the beauty of the Savage rifles.
Basically a do it yourself job in half an hour.
Change bolt head, unscrew barrel and screw in new barrel.
No need for headspace gauges just a dummy round. Screw barrel in on dummy round until you get just the slightest resistance on chambering and tighten lock nut. Done.
Bob

I would not do it without headspace gauges but yes best part.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I would not do it without headspace gauges but yes best part.

@Muskox
That's how my gunsmith does it. Years of knowledge and practice pays dividends. Only with the savage, ALL other rifles done with the proper gauges.
He does check the savage afterwards but has never had to alter one he has done using his method.
Bob