Sako Finnbear

[Velo Dog]

I've been at big game hunting since 1971, and have never had a feeding problem with crf or push feed. I think the crf lovefest is a little overrated personally (no offense intended).

JGRaider,

Myself being only a client, I have to agree with you that sometimes we get too worked up over the PF vs CRF thing.

However, the one and only serious failure I have experienced from a bolt action rifle was with a hot hand load refusing to extract from the chamber of a push feed (Remington .244 caliber).

It was a long and terrifying gauntlet of peril, shooting my way back to the truck with only my revolver, while being pursued by an angry mob of Nevada jack rabbits.

That failure to extract may have been the same with a Mauser type CRF / huge claw extractor and maybe not, I do not know.

The hotly loaded cartridges were certainly my foolish youthful fault, no one else's.

The above failure and my OCD nature, (especially when it comes to rifles) has convinced me that super high pressure ammunition is not for me and neither are push feed rifles for most of what I like to do (wander quite far from the nearest road).

That being said, I might own another PF rifle one day, maybe so and maybe not, but if so, I plan to do the same as I do with my Mausers, IE - not use "hot" ammunition in it.

Regarding any PH that might be backing me up in Africa, even on antelopes/swine - where grumpy lion, buffalo or whatever might also be bashing about the area, I would prefer said PH is armed with an appropriate caliber and well made CRF or similarly appropriate double.

I like Sako push feed rifles very much and have never seen one fail personally.

I have heard a story of one in 7 mm magnum with factory ammunition, blowing it's extractor out but I was not there so, it is not something that I can really evaluate as to what exactly happened.

The older Sako "Finnbear" and similar, plus older Remingtons (Models 721 and 722) are to my liking but currently I do not have either any more.

CRF rifles can fail as well and I prefer them but again, I am a bit OCD regarding rifles.

"One man's bread is another man's poison".

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[Dwight Beagle]

I prefer CRF simply because there is a certain cachet to it. That being said I only own one(CZ 550 American) and five push feeds. There has always been the argument that with a CRF rifle you can chamber a round even if you are upside down falling backwards, where as with a push feed the cartridge could fall out of the rifle, hence CRF is necessary when hunting DG. I recently read an article where a test was conducted on push feed rifles where the intent was to try and make one fail to chamber when cycling the bolt with the rifle upside down etc. Not a single failure. Never been DG hunting though still hope to one day and will take a CRF rifle if possible, but would be comfortable with a push feed.

 

[TokkieM]

My take on the debate.
http://www.africahunting.com/thread...nd-misconceptions-the-push-feed-action.18069/

 

[Velo Dog]

I prefer CRF simply because there is a certain cachet to it. That being said I only own one(CZ 550 American) and five push feeds. There has always been the argument that with a CRF rifle you can chamber a round even if you are upside down falling backwards, where as with a push feed the cartridge could fall out of the rifle, hence CRF is necessary when hunting DG. I recently read an article where a test was conducted on push feed rifles where the intent was to try and make one fail to chamber when cycling the bolt with the rifle upside down etc. Not a single failure. Never been DG hunting though still hope to one day and will take a CRF rifle if possible, but would be comfortable with a push feed.

Hi Dwight Beagle,

I agree with you on the certain cachet that goes with the design.
Also, I feel that (within reason of course); "When in Rome, one should do as the Romans do" and in Africa, the hunting culture leans more toward Mauser's CRF design and so, it never hurts to pitch up in camp with one.
Also, I am totally with you on the CRF being a good bet for DG hunting, (large bore double as well) at least for my own personal hunting trips.

As far as my rifle being reliable while it is upside down, I doubt I will ever be able to find out under realistic conditions and so I have never held a rifle upside down, just to try it for argument sake either.
The times I have been knocked down (high school football and also boxing), I promise you there could never possibly have been enough time during the fraction of a second between the 1st violent impact and the 2nd violent impact (the ground) to operate a bolt action rifle.

My understanding of why the Mauser seriously large and powerful claw extractor was invented was not so much to insure function when upside down but instead to pull stubborn cartridge cases from the smoking hot chambers of soldier's gritty rifles in fierce and sustained firefights.

My one and only serious failure from a bolt action repeater was a fired cartridge case that would not extract from the chamber of a push feed rifle.
Admittedly, it was a maximum velocity hand-load (the folly of my youth) and the Nevada sun was hot as well but perhaps a Mauser would have functioned in spite of these - we will never know.

An interesting read on this very topic is in Dr. Kevin "Doctari" Robertson's excellent book, "Africa's Most Dangerous", in Chapter 6, Page 72 and Page 78.
(Dr. Robertson goes by the screen name; "Doctari505" when posting in this forum)

However, as a client I would not be totally against bringing a push feed to hunt PG in Africa.
It's just that very much like yourself, I prefer the heavy-duty extractor of the 98 Mauser and reasonable descendants of it (Pattern 17 Enfield, Brno 602, CZ 550, Model 70, etc.) - for the reasons mentioned in this and my previous rants on the subject.

Great minds think alike.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.