SA PH's and Outitters- How does the game breeding affect your hunting business?

[MJ75]

The pink springbok comment was written tongue in cheek...

I'm seeing copper, black, and white springbok, white blesbok appear on trophy lists. I know at least one black impala ram has also been 'hunted'. Not all hunting in RS is fake, I've never said all of it was fake. I am well aware their is some unfenced hunting there. However seeing line bred examples of non native species in high fenced areas looks 'fake' to me.

Golden wildebeest etc may not be being shot yet. But what's the long term aim with these, once they become far more numerous?

I guess the line bred game farm animals just add to other negatives and give a perception of fake hunting in RSA. .

I'm more than happy to hunt drab coloured animals in their native range.

 

[TEX84]

I agree. I have no interest in shooting animals outside their native range. Would you shoot a mule deer in Louisiana? Or a pronghorn in Florida? I wouldn't.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

I'm more than happy to hunt drab coloured animals in their native range.

So are we. If you read the comments from page 1, you will see every operator here,bar one, are against the breeding of these color freaks.
We don't want them, and we don't hunt them.

White, Black, Copper Springbuck as well as white Blesbuck has been around as long as I can remember. I get what you are saying, but it's just that your examples are not valid. Regarding the "Golden" Wildebeest, Golden Oryx, Yellow Blesbuck etc, that will be a valid example.

 

[billc]

So a guy hunting a colored springbuck is less of a hunter then. It is always great to say I will only take native game to the area but just remember a lot of place had game wiped out and was only brought back by stocking the game back.

I don't think of Ky for elk but it had them before all the elk there were killed off. Then they restocked them and now has a great elk herd again. I would hunt there with out any problem.

Because someone will hunt something or somewhere that others wont that does not make anyone a better hunter then another hunter

 

[ActionBob]

MJ thanks for the follow up post. That helps from the first one.

My wife and I hunted 9 days last April in the East Cape and took 16 animals, non from a high fenced area. It sure seemed like real hunting to us. Real good hunting! but certainly not a given and there were many critters that got away. We tried to get a Kudu for my wife and in spite of seeing several good one, she never got a shot... and several other similar experiences. We put in long days to get the animals we did. It was real!

I did take a black Springbuck and passed on white blesbuck, I thought they were ugly... However I'm with @Bill C on the springbuck, the more common color variations do add extra options to take if your so inclined, and you don't need to if your not!

I know a lot of guys are passionate about the intensive breeding and I wrote about this before, it will take it's course and no harm will be done long term. There are plenty of common springbuck around to maintain a good gene pool. I don't wish anyone financial harm, but it will not hurt my feelings to see these markets crash and a bunch of people lose money on these outrageously high priced breeding animals. And I am quite confident it will happen.

Golden wildebeest etc may not be being shot yet. But what's the long term aim with these, once they become far more numerous?

I think you are correct, unless they plan to market them for pets. There has to be an end use because this market that is breeding to sell to others breeders and on to yet other breeders in an pyramid scheme! It will collapse.

 

[MJ75]

@ BillC - You appear to be twisting my words. I've not commented on the competence of any hunter. So those comments are moot.

 

[billc]

These animals must appeal to 'bone collectors' not real naturalists and hunter types.[/QUOTE]



Those are your words and I took them to mean I must not be a hunter but only a collecter as I took some colored springbuck with my son. I can say 100% it was still a hunt for us. Hunting can mean many things to different people I just know we all must stick together in the end .

 

[MJ75]

I agree. I have no interest in shooting animals outside their native range. Would you shoot a mule deer in Louisiana? Or a pronghorn in Florida? I wouldn't.

No. I prefer to hunt species in their native range. I have taken species that have been introduced to areas before. But no longer wish to do this. Each to their own.

My 'fake comments' seem to have touched a raw nerve. So for the purposes of clarity, I'll add again that a line bred animal, not in it's native range being 'hunted' in a fenced area strikes me as a fake experience. It's not something I wish to undertake. RSA has a bit of an image problem compared to other African countries. Many people often think of small, fenced put and take farms. We know it's not all like this, but it's perception that matters. I believe that offering black impala and golden wildebeest, which will happen one day will add to the 'fake' perceptions of RSA.

So are we. If you read the comments from page 1, you will see every operator here,bar one, are against the breeding of these color freaks.
We don't want them, and we don't hunt them.

White, Black, Copper Springbuck as well as white Blesbuck has been around as long as I can remember. I get what you are saying, but it's just that your examples are not valid. Regarding the "Golden" Wildebeest, Golden Oryx, Yellow Blesbuck etc, that will be a valid example.

You say they're not valid. But that is a matter of opinion. I'm aware of other hunters thinking that springbok grandslams are fake, tacky, unappealing etc. People wanting to collect them like pokemon cards seem more focused on the collection as opposed to the hunting experience. As I said previously, each to their own, but I don't think it paints RSA in a good light to all hunters.

 

[MJ75]

@ BillC Yes we must stick together. More than one of my 'hobbies' is under threat due to the antis, so I agree with that 100%.

A collector can still have skill, just as hunter can be a poor hunter. I hope that all makes sense?

 

[billc]

@ BillC Yes we must stick together. More than one of my 'hobbies' is under threat due to the antis, so I agree with that 100%.

A collector can still have skill, just as hunter can be a poor hunter. I hope that all makes sense?

I do understand your points. I to would not pay what they want for a copper springbuck now. I just don't see it as a bad thing if guys do. I just don't like to paint things with such a broad brush as bad because I cant do it or agree with it.

Again I think I feel this way because when I started hunting Africa the colored springbucks were already around for like 20 years. To me that was good enough and I see them staying around. Now a golden wildbeast or a kings wildebeest or golden oryx I see as a trend that will die off. I m seeing that with my own eyes and not a fan of it. I don't think we are far off in what we believe it is all how you say things. Trust me I know a lot about not always saying the right thing I do that all the time on here

 

[MJ75]

I talked to an agent earlier this week. He recently started investing in game animals. He advised he'd just swapped some bontebok for sable. One of the sable was ready to shoot now and he had someone who wanted it.

That means the animal will be placed in an enclosure and 'hunted'. To my mind, that's not hunting, that's shooting. I find that kind of deal abhorrent. Just another reason I won't return to RSA. Pick your animal on the internet before you fly to South Africa...

I wonder how long it will be before people are doing the same for golden wildebeest etc?

 

[spike.t]

White, Black, Copper Springbuck as well as white Blesbuck has been around as long as I can remember.

So a guy hunting a colored springbuck is less of a hunter then

ok these 2 where posted after each other .............so bill i dont think to a certain degree that is what marius was saying......???

 

[spike.t]

I was wondering the same thing marius. But I was getting jealous to because I myself don't have a pink springbuck and I love hunting springbuck.LOL

still working on your pink sable bill ....think i saw one at about 4am when we had just finished our sundowners.........didnt know they could climb trees though............

 

[spike.t]

I agree. I have no interest in shooting animals outside their native range. Would you shoot a mule deer in Louisiana? Or a pronghorn in Florida? I wouldn't.

tex if you told me thats where they live i wold have to believe you

 

[spike.t]

The main draw of hunting in Africa is the primal nature, the last true adventure.

ok so being in the middle of nowhere in alaska or the rocky mountains, or the swamps of the south east isnt being in a primal place on the planet??? you are going to be a lot further from "places" there than you are in a lot of "primal" africa that most people go to.........no disrespect meant to anyone

 

[spike.t]

It gave me the impression that hunting in RSA is just all completely fake.

Not all hunting in RS is fake, I've never said all of it was fake.

 

[Diamondhitch]

still working on your pink sable bill ....think i saw one at about 4am when we had just finished our sundowners.........didnt know they could climb trees though............

Dancing with pink elephants in tutus I suppose

 

[spike.t]

Dancing with pink elephants in tutus I suppose

how did you know that?

 

[get015]

With the way the artificial breeding is going anything is possible... ...... It's all about the money and not about nature any more...

It has become fake and IMO EVEN THE SPRINGBUCK AND THE BLESBUCK are now being bred intensely to create numbers...

Anyway join the sausage machine or cut your own trail those are your options

My best always

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

It has become fake and IMO EVEN THE SPRINGBUCK AND THE BLESBUCK are now being bred intensely to create numbers...



My best always

Jaco, in your opinion, numbers being created for which reason, for hunting or breeding?
We hunt a self sustaining herd of Springbuck of about 500 strong. If we don't take off around 50 trophy males a year, they will eat themselves out of house and home.

Interested to hear your opinion on this.