Rigby mauser

[john corry]

Hi All,
I’m trying to figure out a problem that 3 of my pre war Rigby’s have. When I load the rifle, with 3 - 5 rounds in the magazine, the rounds move around and one can hear them jangling away when moving the rifle. This happens in two 350s and one 350 No. 2. I have tried both modern ammo and even a box of the original stuff from 1920. Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[MontanaGrant]

Weak magazine springs? I cannot think of anything else that should have that effect. I can’t say as I’ve seen that on any rifle

 

[john corry]

The springs seem fine. The rifles are all in very good condition, with little use.

 

[baxterb]

Are you in the US? Might call Lon Paul, I know he has worked on /built several 350s including standard and stepped ring/slant box versions. As a random guess it sounds like the box dims or follower are slightly off and the round are tight at the base but are not being held together throughout their length. That’s just a guess.

 

[RyanPalmer]

Send a message to @RIGBY. They seem to keep an eye on the forums.

 

[uplander01]

If it's causing problems, I would have Rigby look at the guns, service or replace ethe springs, and run a reliability check. Springs can look fine, but they lose their spring, you can't see it, they may look like new, but they are not. Same for firing pin springs, should be replaced over time.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Sounds like the box is oversize for the cartridge ... as in way oversize. You should be able to look in the magazine when it's loaded and see very little space between bullet tip and forward end of the box. Actually, I would have thought the gun would not cycle smoothly if the mag box was too long. Is the box length longer at the bottom (depth) than the top? However, that would seem unlikely if the bottom metal is machined. The opposite would usually be the case to allow for "drift" when machining. If you can see a lot of space ahead of the bullets loaded in the box, a gunsmith could add a spacer. Bullet seating is obviously not the issue because you have the same problem with period factory loads.

This is a strange one. Hope you get it figured out. You should look after fixing this as cartridges rattling in the box could mean bullets getting shoved back in their cases during recoil = messed up velocity = trajectory changes.

 

[john corry]

Sounds like the box is oversize for the cartridge ... as in way oversize. You should be able to look in the magazine when it's loaded and see very little space between bullet tip and forward end of the box. Actually, I would have thought the gun would not cycle smoothly if the mag box was too long. Is the box length longer at the bottom (depth) than the top? However, that would seem unlikely if the bottom metal is machined. The opposite would usually be the case to allow for "drift" when machining. If you can see a lot of space ahead of the bullets loaded in the box, a gunsmith could add a spacer. Bullet seating is obviously not the issue because you have the same problem with period factory loads.

This is a strange one. Hope you get it figured out. You should look after fixing this as cartridges rattling in the box could mean bullets getting shoved back in their cases during recoil = messed up velocity = trajectory changes.

So, after a phone call with Paul Roberts he explained to me it’s actually a common issue - the Rigby 350s were built on Magnum actions which were really designed for the 416. A very desirable action but quite annoying to hear that it’s a known prob. I have no feed probs just the noise. Will be rectified by fitting a small spacer.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Or do as a doctor would say.

“ doctor it hurts when I do this.”

“Well, don’t do that”

I’m here all week.

Sorry I couldn’t help myself.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

So, after a phone call with Paul Roberts he explained to me it’s actually a common issue - the Rigby 350s were built on Magnum actions which were really designed for the 416. A very desirable action but quite annoying to hear that it’s a known prob. I have no feed probs just the noise. Will be rectified by fitting a small spacer.

Good news that it will be an easy fix. I have to wonder what Rigby was thinking. Why build that caliber on an oversize, heavier, longer bolt stroke, more expensive action? Perhaps they ordered more magnum actions than they could fill orders for? If your guns were made during the Depression, that may very well have been the reason. Makes for an interesting story to your rifles.

I wonder if the spacer will go at the front or rear of the box?

 

[john corry]

It’s a good question. Prob a bit of marketing for the magnum action!

 

[rookhawk]

The springs seem fine. The rifles are all in very good condition, with little use.

On custom English mausers built 50 years later than yours, I found the magazine springs would fail within a year. There is a firm that makes a magnum mauser spring for about $20 that is 15% stronger. Those would last 2 years for me.

The thing that kills even the magnum strength mauser spring is overstuffing the magazine for a +1. That overcompresses the spring.

In short, I think you dismissed other's suggestions too quickly. The other alternative is that Rigby is a terrible company that made unreliable guns, therefore the geometry of the follower is all wrong and a new, correct custom follower needs to be fabricated. <- Do you see why its more likely the spring?

 

[rookhawk]

In addition to the spring, you can make a box from sheet stock to tighten the tolerances if there's enough room without inletting the stock. If there isn't enough room for metal, 3D printing something using a very strong polymer might solve it without interference.

 

[john corry]

On custom English mausers built 50 years later than yours, I found the magazine springs would fail within a year. There is a firm that makes a magnum mauser spring for about $20 that is 15% stronger. Those would last 2 years for me.

The thing that kills even the magnum strength mauser spring is overstuffing the magazine for a +1. That overcompresses the spring.

In short, I think you dismissed other's suggestions too quickly. The other alternative is that Rigby is a terrible company that made unreliable guns, therefore the geometry of the follower is all wrong and a new, correct custom follower needs to be fabricated. <- Do you see why its more likely the spring?

Very good points. Much appreciated.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

On custom English mausers built 50 years later than yours, I found the magazine springs would fail within a year. There is a firm that makes a magnum mauser spring for about $20 that is 15% stronger. Those would last 2 years for me.

The thing that kills even the magnum strength mauser spring is overstuffing the magazine for a +1. That overcompresses the spring.

In short, I think you dismissed other's suggestions too quickly. The other alternative is that Rigby is a terrible company that made unreliable guns, therefore the geometry of the follower is all wrong and a new, correct custom follower needs to be fabricated. <- Do you see why its more likely the spring?

The magnum springs are apparently wider. My military spring was too narrow for the magnum follower I ordered from NECG so I pinched the follower a bit in a vice to close up the retainers. Works fine. NECG no longer sells magnum Mauser follower springs. Neither does anyone else. Hoosier lists them on their website but zero in stock.

Anyway, OP has consulted a reputable gunsmith who confirmed my suspicion that the box is too long. A standard length cartridge loaded into a magnum action.

Adding a spacer inside the box would be much easier than fabricating another box. Mauser magazine is typically machined as one unit with bottom metal ( = trigger guard + magazine box + floorplate).

 

[john corry]

On custom English mausers built 50 years later than yours, I found the magazine springs would fail within a year. There is a firm that makes a magnum mauser spring for about $20 that is 15% stronger. Those would last 2 years for me.

The thing that kills even the magnum strength mauser spring is overstuffing the magazine for a +1. That overcompresses the spring.

In short, I think you dismissed other's suggestions too quickly. The other alternative is that Rigby is a terrible company that made unreliable guns, therefore the geometry of the follower is all wrong and a new, correct custom follower needs to be fabricated. <- Do you see why it’s more likely the spring?

Would you mind sharing which firm produces these springs? Thanks.

 

[rookhawk]

Would you mind sharing which firm produces these springs? Thanks.

A cursory look of my gmail and the web and I couldn't come up with the name. Brownell's sells a +10% power spring but they don't state a maker. If memory serves, you could get a 15% or 20% power model for standard and magnum lengths from the real maker that was somewhere in the USA.

Sorry to put you on the snipe hunt, but I promise you they exist and I last bought them 4-5 years ago. (100% of Cogswell & Harrison rifles i've handled needed them due to years of +1 compression of the factory strength follower spring)

 

[rookhawk]

This might be the one: http://www.hoosiergunworks.com/catalog/mausers_commercial.html

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Would you mind sharing which firm produces these springs? Thanks.

You can restore collapsed springs by stretching them apart. However, that can be too much of a good thing. If the follower spring has too much tension, it can cause cartridges to jump the rails prematurely. For a push feed or quality CRF with snap over capability that may not be disastrous ... unless more than one cartridge jumps the rails when bolt is opened ... while you are smelling a buffalo's bad breath.

Fix the box, then worry about the spring. I seriously doubt that is the issue. Even a weak spring should not produce the clattering you are describing. Symptom of a weak follower spring is typically unreliable feeding due to bolt face skipping over the cartridge rim and/or cartridge shoulder jumping the rail too late ( = rough cycling). You said your gun cycles fine.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

This might be the one: http://www.hoosiergunworks.com/catalog/mausers_commercial.html

Last I looked they had zero in their inventory. That was two years ago. I phoned and was told the magnum Mauser springs were discontinued. Maybe they have them in stock now. Hoosier guys are not very techy and their website inventory is often (usually) in need of update. Always best to phone them. I seem to recall they only take orders over the phone anyway. Very nice folks to deal with.