Rigby made in California......any experience

[spike.t]

And that’s the problem today, everyone want to be a “marketing Company “

Not sure what you mean.. ..but from what I remember being told at the time the directors /owner of chanel etc were into hunting and shooting so they bought Holland... so at least it has plenty money behind it....the clode family had engineering businesses so same for westley Richards.....Paul bought Rigbys and already had a gun making company that was his father's....and Paul hunted allover the world so knew what was needed in his rifles.... Same with Simon clode before he passed away did plenty hunting and bird shooting.... Used to shoot with him at one shoot in England for couple of years....they are/were gun people.......

 

[sierraone]

they are/were gun people.......

We can only hope that in our perfect world all gun companies are owned by people like Simon Clode and Paul Roberts.

 

[Major Khan]

Ten-year-old article, and history has long since rendered its verdict with the demise of the California experiment.

There is a God after all , sir . I have another article somewhere in my I Pad, which claims that the Californian " Rigby " company was also attempting to do away with the traditional English style splinter type fore end on double barreled rifles . To think what these people would have done with such a prestigious company name if they were not put a leash on , is flat out terrifying.

 

[Red Leg]

And that’s the problem today, everyone want to be a “marketing Company “

Not sure what you mean. Unless you are an actual ad company, corporations view "marketing" as something on the expense side of the ledger. Margin is in products and services.

 

[wesheltonj]

I should have been more clear. The reference was to an article about Levi Strauss and Company when they closed their company owned manufacturing facilities and stated that they are now a “Marketing Company” and would only be selling labels. For example, Richemont refers to Purdy as a Maison. (Yes I know Maison is house not label in French)

 

[spike.t]

I should have been more clear. The reference was to an article about Levi Strauss and Company when they closed their company owned manufacturing facilities and stated that they are now a “Marketing Company” and would only be selling labels. For example, Richemont refers to Purdy as a Maison. (Yes I know Maison is house not label in French)

As rigby have their workshop on site in the same place as their showroom I don't see any similarity in a Jean company that doesn't make it's own products ........

 

[Red Leg]

I should have been more clear. The reference was to an article about Levi Strauss and Company when they closed their company owned manufacturing facilities and stated that they are now a “Marketing Company” and would only be selling labels. For example, Richemont refers to Purdy as a Maison. (Yes I know Maison is house not label in French)

I am still confused - We must be talking past one another. When the French holding company uses the word "maison" or "house" that would mean "subsidiary". But the subsidiary is still producing a magnificent product. Obviously, a lot of enterprises are in turn held by holding or parent companies - partially or in whole. In some, even most, cases that works out to everyone's benefit - L&O Hunting Group Gmbh seems to be doing a lot of things correctly with targeted investments among its team. Other holding companies have business cases built around squeezing the life out of their acquisitions to achieve short term margin before discarding them and moving on. A couple of US manufacturers were caught up in that death spiral. Fortunately these predatory acquisition models are relatively rare. The holding company focused on growth will often assume or share fixed costs among like subsidiaries (also supply chain). Marketing could be one of those, though normally the larger entity will focus on business development, leaving actual marketing to the customer facing front line business. But that is a fundamental business cost or investment just like R&D or talent acquisition. And all of that, is what I would call normal, healthy business practices.

 

[Scott CWO]

Mark who makes the stocks and has featured at sci and possibly dsc worked for Paul when he owned Rigbys..Marc Newton worked for Paul Roberts for quite a while and learned from him, and to be in the English gun trade there aren't many people better to have learned from than Paul....and one of Rigbys descendants is also working there and apparently she is a very good gunsmith and working on the rising bite double rifles.... not sure if any of the classic gun makers are still owned by original family members.... As has been said Hollands is owned by Chanel.... Wesley Richards was bought by the clode family in late 1950s....so as has been said that's how it is now....but when I look or handle any of these makers guns then to me they are what they are...a rigby a Holland....a Westley...etc....Ferrari is owned by fiat....but still a Ferrari....

Thanks for these details. Definitely makes me think that perhaps the newer guns could be on par with the old. That would be wonderful.

 

[CBH Australia]

So in essence, neither are really Rigby but one is closer than the other.

No offense meant. I agree that companies change hands all the time. Just seems like this wasn’t a direct buy out or a handing off of the same facilities, employees, products, etc... They later acquired the trademarks, etc... and started fresh. Sounds like they are making an admirable go at it with new people and facilities and making a good product.

I think what you are saying is the company has gone out of business and someone else registered a trademark. Fair comment.
If Coca Cola went broke and we registered a trademark and had a version so similar from a breakdown of the original we would still not be the original “Coca Cola “ company. Did Paul Roberts buy Rigby from Rigby or just register a name?
Are Rigby of London a company that has descended from “The Original”?
Canadians Club whisky was founded by someone Walker, was a he a relation of Johnny Walker or the Original company? The Trademark slogan Similar but different does that imply something? It’s not Bourbon as it is palatable but it’s not Scotch Whiskey of any variety either.
In Australia Kahles scopes were highly regarded . This is likely due to the fact that the Kahles 8x56 was widely used from the 70’s and is still a great spotlighting scope. I think they developed/marketed quality coatings in 1972? That was a good year.
I read some stuff on Kahles, they had a few hiccups starting early 1900’s? They were a family business but bombed twice I think? Different times different wars but what. I read was that at some point the last surviving family member wanted “the company” to continue and sold to Swarovski, smart move I believe Swarovski own both and the operate independently and do not share technology or manufacturing rights or factory’s. Kahles is a stand alone brand that has a history and pedigree of its own and has operated as a company since it’s inception. Regardless of trading ownership.
Does that make my Kahles a Swarovski? No! It’s one of the last steel tube Kahles from a Kahles factory and I still wish to own a Swarovski, Just because or just because they make them.
I believe I read Winchester is a trade name or trademark that can be purchased each time it comes up for renewal as the original Winchester company do not manufacture.
I might happy to be corrected but i am repeating what I research so maybe it’s misleading but whenever I decide I like a firearm or accessory I read enough to satisfy my self that my preference is suitable unless I see enough evidence to the contrary.
Sako? Tikka? Owned by Beretta Holdings but perhaps have continued production as a business albeit through changing hands of a parent company.
I would like a Rigby and to have my name in the Rigby ledger but I can’t afford it But it’s interesting the company does not seem to have changed hands as a registered company with a continuous history.

 

[spike.t]

Paul bought the rigby company from David Marx ....not just register the name.... Send Marc Newton an email asking for the full background.... As I am fed up with the same repetitive issues brought up about Rigbys.... This isn't the first thread bringing this stuff up.....you either like them or you don't....I do...I have owned a few Rigbys and liked all of them..... They are now in safe hands producing great rifles.... The choice is from the pretty reasonable basic ones to however much you want to spend to create your own personal work of art...........oh and they have all the company ledgers ....if you don't like them buy something else ...you have plenty of choice... simple

Oh and ruger where in talks to buy them at one time.....that's when ruger brought out the RSM in 416 rigby..... Paul advised them on it but ruger unfortunately didn't listen to his bit of advice saying to put a drop magazine on the rifle to increase the capacity......

 

[Red Leg]

Paul bought the rigby company from David Marx ....not just register the name.... Send Marc Newton an email asking for the full background.... As I am fed up with the same repetitive issues brought up about Rigbys.... This isn't the first thread bringing this stuff up.....you either like them or you don't....I do...I have owned a few Rigbys and liked all of them..... They are now in safe hands producing great rifles.... The choice is from the pretty reasonable basic ones to however much you want to spend to create your own personal work of art...........oh and they have all the company ledgers ....if you don't like them buy something else ...you have plenty of choice... simple

Oh and ruger where in talks to buy them at one time.....that's when ruger brought out the RSM in 416 rigby..... Paul advised them on it but ruger unfortunately didn't listen to his bit of advice saying to put a drop magazine on the rifle to increase the capacity......

No one on the planet can even attempt to build a "rising bite."

 

[CBH Australia]

@spike.t
I dont think people are saying they dont like them.
The OP wants to know if the California version is ok or flawed.
Ive been enlightened
I would buy a Rigby if i could but i would be weary of tsking it in the bush. It 15k and upwards would be a big investment for me in Australian dollars or a lot for 1 rifle as i would want accessories and a good scope to compliment it.
If i bought one i would maybe want an older one otherwise an English made if i was going to have one.
Paul Roberts may have told Ruger they need a drop down magazine. They probably listened but there may have been business decisions why they did not use that advice. 1 reason is likely it was only ever going to be limited production anf requires retooling.
I guess many purists would consider a "Real Rigby" to be one made on a Mauser action.
Some prefer Brno 602 over CZ550

 

[Red Leg]

@spike.t
I dont think people are saying they dont like them.
The OP wants to know if the California version is ok or flawed.
Ive been enlightened
I would buy a Rigby if i could but i would be weary of tsking it in the bush. It 15k and upwards would be a big investment for me in Australian dollars or a lot for 1 rifle as i would want accessories and a good scope to compliment it.
If i bought one i would maybe want an older one otherwise an English made if i was going to have one.
Paul Roberts may have told Ruger they need a drop down magazine. They probably listened but there may have been business decisions why they did not use that advice. 1 reason is likely it was only ever going to be limited production anf requires retooling.
I guess many purists would consider a "Real Rigby" to be one made on a Mauser action.
Some prefer Brno 602 over CZ550

The OP started this w/r to a double rifle. Rigby built magnificent ones back in the Golden age and are building them again today. Many people consider the Rigby "Rising Bite" of that era the finest double rifle ever made. No other maker has ever attempted to build the action, and Rigby will take your order for one today. They will run you somewhat north of 120K. The rifles Rogue River was building were a collage of parts on Merkel actions and nothing like a fine English double. With regard to Rigby bolt actions, rest assured, no one has ever considered any Ruger remotely comparable to a London Rigby.

 

[sierraone]

I would buy a Rigby if i could

Absolutely...I would buy 2 or 3 !!!

 

[Red Leg]

The OP started this w/r to a double rifle. Rigby built magnificent ones back in the Golden age and are building them again today. Many people consider the Rigby "Rising Bite" of that era the finest double rifle ever made. No other maker has ever attempted to build the action, and Rigby will take your order for one today. They will run you somewhat north of 120K. The rifles Rogue River was building were a collage of parts on Merkel actions and nothing like a fine English double. With regard to Rigby bolt actions, rest assured, no one has ever considered any Ruger remotely comparable to a London Rigby.

Though the RSM was/is a pretty darn good rifle that remains a great bargain on the used gun market.

 

[SFC Ronald "Kilmore" Moore]

Is this the one you are looking at Surgeon1? It has been on GB for a few months...

View attachment 331885

For almost the same money, there is this one, sold by Champlin Firearms, one of the most reputable double rifles dealer in the country...

View attachment 331886

Or for a little more money, there is this one...

View attachment 331888
View attachment 331889

Or if you really want a Rigby...

View attachment 331890

Truth be told, if I were looking for a 'hunting rifle' (I personally shoot a Krieghoff .470, which is a 'hunting rifle' albeit a very, very good one), I would look at this one very, very hard...

View attachment 331887

The bottom line is that you can buy a PROVEN double .470 rifle (Heym, Chapuis, Kreighoff, Blaser, if you like their look & engineering - which is remarkable, Verney Carron) backed by a completely trusted dealer and shop (George Caswell & JJ Perodeau of Champlin Arms) for $15,000+

More money ($10,000 to $20,000 more) buys you a historic name on the barrels (Westley Richards, Lang, Cogswell & Harrison, Bland, Francotte, Jeffery, etc.) but not necessarily a better rifle.

A whole lot more money ($30,000 to $100,000 more) buys you one of the legendary names (Holland, Rigby, God forbid Woodward or Purdey) but they will not kill any better and at that stage you want to think real hard before taking a $100,000 double to Africa.

I am not sure where a $22,000 Rogue River / Rigby fits, but I guaranty you that it does not put you in that last category, and I would rather trust a Heym, Chapuis, Kreighoff, Blaser, Verney Carron, or Merkel, etc.) because these people have had for decades a lot more experience putting doubles together than Rogue River had, and double rifles making is a trade in which experience is paramount...

You asked for opinions, this is just mine. It comes with no agenda or ulterior motive, and it is only worth what you paid for it, but it is honest

I just bought the Heym 88B .470 NE Pro Hunter from Champlin Inc. I got a very fair price on it. I have bought guns from George Caswell and he is a great guy to deal with. I just saw this listing now and am happy you concur with my opinion on what makes a good DGR.

 

[vette447]

This may not be too popular based on most of the bulk of the responses I see. However, here is my firsthand experience as a BIG Rigby fan:

I have a few of the California made Rigby rifles and several British Rigby rifles. I would say that I prefer the British made rifles by a long stretch, of course. However, I have not found the american made guns (at least those that I have) to be bad guns. In fact these that I have are very well made, nicely engraved with beuatiful wood and good shooters. One of mine is a very nice boxlock in 500 NE. It is well built, very handsome, and balances and shoots great.

Now, should the be worth as much as my British born Rigbys? No! However, they didn't cost nearly as much either (My prewar Rigby double cost 3x what the 500 NE boxlock cost me, and appropriately so). Thus, take them for what they are. A nicely engraved and handsome rifle (considering their doubles an upgraded Merkel is probably fair).

Just my $0.02 based on my experience. Take it for what it is worth...

 

[Shakka]

A bit off-topic guys but do any of you remember when the California Rigby's came out how shamelessly Craig Boddington promoted them and maker/owner Geoff Miller in his articles?? Miller even claimed to be a Marine so another reason that Boddington was all over him. If I remember correctly, in the end it was discovered that Miller wasn't even a Marine and just pretended to be one.

 

[vette447]

It is too bad that someone like that was the ambassador for, and holder of the Rigby name for a period of time (even if it was a brief time).

 

[Shakka]

It is too bad that someone like that was the ambassador for, and holder of the Rigby name for a period of time (even if it was a brief time).

His name is Geoff Miller and he seems to have disappeared...never heard Boddington mention him again either