Rigby / Holland & Holland / Westley Richards

I remember everyone's panties getting in a wad when Jeff Miller bought Rigby and opened it in Paso Robles, California.

Jeff was a bad businessman, but they made great bolt rifles. Their doubles were made on Merkel actions, which was kind of strange.

I agree with Spike, there is no provenance of longevity of name. Relaunching a company that is dead does not give you 200 years of name brand. It is a new company.


Here is what was published here before:

Will The Real John Rigby Ple… Weatherby Nation Hits Milest…The storied English gunmaker John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. has been operating out of Paso Robles, Calif. for 12 years, however, a new John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. has surfaced in London after the original corporate entity was abandoned in Great Britain.

We'll refer to the pair as "California Rigby" and "London Rigby" for the sake of clarity. Only "California Rigby" claims to be the legitimate John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. dating to Ireland in 1735. "London Rigby" merely claims to have filed a corporation under the name John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. after "California Rigby" neglected to file a trademark or incorporate the company in England.

This whole affair dates back to 1997 when Neil Gibson of Texas bought the historic record books, intellectual property and other rights to the John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. marque from Paul Roberts of J. Roberts & Sons of London .

J. Roberts & Sons bought the rights in Rigby in 1984 and changed its name to John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. However, in 1997 when Roberts sold the Rigby rights to Gibson, Roberts abandoned the company name of Rigby and refilled under its original name of J. Roberts & Sons, thereby allowing the company name of John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. to lapse. It ceased to be a corporate entity in 2002.

"California Rigby" came into being when gunsmith Geoff Miller of Rogue River Rifleworks in California signed a note to purchase the Rigby intellectual property assets from Gibson, however, Miller never paid Gibson.

Gibson subsequently sold the note to Marc Halcon, a longtime firearms industry figure, who foreclosed on Miller. Rather than face foreclosure, Miller filed bankruptcy. As a result of the bankruptcy, a new investor paid off Halcon's note. Miller continues to make guns under the John Rigby name in an arrangement with the current note owner.

Meanwhile, up steps Mark Neal of London, an engineer by profession and an avid shooter by avocation.

Neal launched a project to build a modern version of what is widely regarded as the finest double rifle action ever made, the Rigby "rising bite" or Bisel action. Working with gunsmiths in the trade as well as other professional engineers, Neal dissected the rising bite action and rend ered it into a CNC program. His intention is to offer rising bite rifles and shotguns under the corporate name of John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd., which he has registered as a company in England.

I checked the British Trademark Registry and indeed no marque for John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. existed before June 11, 2009 when Miller belatedly filed an application, subsequent to Neal's launching of "London Rigby."

Neal explained his position on "London Rigby" in an e-mail to me, "I should briefly explain who we are as people. We are a collection of fairly ordinary people, engineers, gun-makers, shooters and hunters, gamekeepers and others. We are devoted to the Company that we have formed and it is our greatest wish that it succeed in bringing Rigby back to England and placing it again with the greatest names in gun-making. To this end we have worked tirelessly for more than a year.

"From the way that the knowledgeable shooting public have received us, overwhelmingly in the main, we feel that we have every chance in doing so."

Meanwhile, "California Rigby" issued this press release on Aug. 7, 2009:
"John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Inc. is the only company that has the legal right to use the John Rigby trademarks and logo worldwide. We are advised by our legal counsel in both the U.K. and in the U.S. that the London-based company's unauthorized use of our John Rigby name is a clear infringement of our registered trademark rights and is clear grounds for a passing-off claim as well. We intend to initiate legal action forthwith seeking an injunction, damages and attorney's fees for this willful and egregious violation of our intellectual property rights."

On the same date (Aug. 7, 2009), Roberts issued the following statement:
"It has come to my attention that a new entity has formed under the John Rigby & Co. name and are now attempting to offer John Rigby guns and rifles under the trade name John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers), Ltd.

"Under the circumstances, I wish it to be known that the new entity John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers), Ltd. is in no way associated with the old firm, its staff or its products. Equally they have no connection with any guns and rifles manufactured and sold by J. Rigby & Co in the USA."

This prompted Neal (of "London Rigby") to offer the following:
"We state for the record, as we have done many times over the past few days, John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd. has no connection with a company of a similar name registered in the United States nor, heaven help us, would we wish to claim any.

"John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd. has no connection with any former company bearing that name. Again, we have stated this categori cally before."
I’m trying to understand the context of all this information, perhaps someone could catch me up. It seems to me that you are calling the current rigby out as being smoke and mirrors so to speak? I’ve mentioned in previous threads that pretty much all the elite firearms brands over in England are owned by some giant conglomerate of luxury brands…albeit 1, Westley Richards.
 
Just curious are CA Rigbys even still being made? When you google John Rigby you only get the UK one complete with all products all of us see at SCI DSC etc
 
Just curious are CA Rigbys even still being made? When you google John Rigby you only get the UK one complete with all products all of us see at SCI DSC etc
No he filed for bankruptcy.
 
Just curious are CA Rigbys even still being made? When you google John Rigby you only get the UK one complete with all products all of us see at SCI DSC etc
All I am saying is that there is no actual provenance.

Beretta the company has been around continuously for over 600 years.

Rigby specifically not the same Rigby company from Roberts time.

It doesn't really matter, but I think it is false advertising for them to claim 200 years of Rigby.

Weatherby of the 1950's is the same company as Weatherby today. Roy to Ed to the son in Sheridan.

Rigby has a discontinued and cloudy past.

It would be like Grenadier claiming to have Land Rover Defender provenance because they make a similar looking vehicle.
 
I’m trying to understand the context of all this information, perhaps someone could catch me up. It seems to me that you are calling the current rigby out as being smoke and mirrors so to speak? I’ve mentioned in previous threads that pretty much all the elite firearms brands over in England are owned by some giant conglomerate of luxury brands…albeit 1, Westley Richards.
And Westley Richards is in the hands of an oil sheik. Saoudi Arabian I believe.
 
All I am saying is that there is no actual provenance.

Beretta the company has been around continuously for over 600 years.

Rigby specifically not the same Rigby company from Roberts time.

It doesn't really matter, but I think it is false advertising for them to claim 200 years of Rigby.

Weatherby of the 1950's is the same company as Weatherby today. Roy to Ed to the son in Sheridan.

Rigby has a discontinued and cloudy past.

It would be like Grenadier claiming to have Land Rover Defender provenance because they make a similar looking vehicle.
One more question please, How does the current London based Rigby have all the Rigby ledgers in my most recent 1906 Rigby in 450 NE?
 
One more question please, How does the current London based Rigby have all the Rigby ledgers in my most recent 1906 Rigby in 450 NE?


I believe they bought them from when Rigby was based in Dallas and Kent Porter was running the show. I handled several rifles of that era, one was a lightweight 416 and if you can believe it, they had plans of releasing a version called The Selby.
 
If it looks like a duck, swims, flies and waddles like a duck….it’s a duck. That applies to ducks hatched in the 19th, 20th and 21st centuries.
 
Id try Holland and Holland,heres a pic of my 375 built in 1922,i took it out(and a cuple others too) for a shoot a few weeks ago. It handles as if it was part of your arm and im still amazed how well it was built ,to me this is the 375,and im sure they could make a new one to mirror it.ps i have a silvers pad coming to replace the one on it.
 

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I believe they bought them from when Rigby was based in Dallas and Kent Porter was running the show. I handled several rifles of that era, one was a lightweight 416 and if you can believe it, they had plans of releasing a version called The Selby.
Forgive me, but I think it is great that they are in production, but them telling the world that they have been doing this for 200 years just rubs me the wrong way.

Not that I matter in anyway.

They have a couple of fairly big American (Texans I believe) benefactors that have bought tons of rifles from them. They were on a podcast with Marc Newton, and on of the Americans was talking bout how many Rigby's he owned, and how some of them were American. It seemed (podcast, so no video) that it got Newtons panties in a wad.

Jeff Miller had also applied for the Royal Warrant to be re-issued. Apparently according to Newton got the Queen upset that an American company had asked for the warrant.

All of it is kind of a goofy business.
 
I read a article and saw picture of the fall block rifle of the California ones , it was ready made for Leupold Quick Release scope rings . Not exactly what one was thinking of when it came to a rifle of that level and price range .
 
Forgive me, but I think it is great that they are in production, but them telling the world that they have been doing this for 200 years just rubs me the wrong way.

Not that I matter in anyway.

They have a couple of fairly big American (Texans I believe) benefactors that have bought tons of rifles from them. They were on a podcast with Marc Newton, and on of the Americans was talking bout how many Rigby's he owned, and how some of them were American. It seemed (podcast, so no video) that it got Newtons panties in a wad.

Jeff Miller had also applied for the Royal Warrant to be re-issued. Apparently according to Newton got the Queen upset that an American company had asked for the warrant.

All of it is kind of a goofy business.
Your research completely checks out. However being my two degrees and experience are in Marketing you and I know the following:
1. The largest value of any brand value is its perceived Good Will.
2. I would suggest The Rigby Brand was perceived as UK no matter who currently owned.
3. US Rigby no matter what quality thought the country of origin for The Rigby did not matter when clearly it did and does.
While I completely understand and can appreciate your point of the new UK Rigby under Marc is pushing the truth of their heritage it is great and smart marketing that I absolutely would do as well

Thanks again for your post!!!
 

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