Rigby Double Rifle

[Nick1982]

Hallo, new to the forum here.
I recently came upon a very old double rifle and just wanted to know some opinions about it.
Like is it safe to shoot since it is so old.
However it is in remarkable good an solid state for its age.
And is ammo readily available.
Does anyone recomend a good load for it?
It is a 1902 make 450 nitro express.
Thanks in advance.
Greetings Nick

 

[degoins]

What a beauty and in the cartridge that Rigby developed!!!

 

[grand veneur]

450 Nitro Express 3 1/4-inch, I suppose.

There is no reason that you cannot shoot with such a old rifle. But it assumes that you have inspected the rifle carefully to be sure that everything is in order and then also looked at the proof Marks to be sure that the rifle is Nitro proofed and not a Black Powder rifle. If the rifle was proofed in GB, which is to be expected, the maximum load and bullet weight with which it was proofed are engraved on the barrels. After them you can go out and shoot a full load straight away, preferably a factory load at the beginning.

 

[Nick1982]

450 Nitro Express 3 1/4-inch, I suppose.

There is no reason that you cannot shoot with such a old rifle. But it assumes that you have inspected the rifle carefully to be sure that everything is in order and then also looked at the proof Marks to be sure that the rifle is Nitro proofed and not a Black Powder rifle. If the rifle was proofed in GB, which is to be expected, the maximum load and bullet weight with which it was proofed are engraved on the barrels. After them you can go out and shoot a full load straight away, preferably a factory load at the beginning.

 

[Shootist43]

Welcome aboard Nick1982. You are correct, that rifle looks to be in very good condition. I'm sure the subject matter experts will chime in here shortly. There is a Double Rifle gunsmith that can tell you the exact condition if you are interested.

 

[Nick1982]

Thanks for the answer.
Enclosed some foto's of the action and markings.
Greetings Nick

 

[grand veneur]

I cannot see Nitro proof marks and there are some things I don't like about all this marks. It looks like if some marks were engraved later, especially the Rigby trade mark. You have to evaluate pictures critically, but none of this seems to me original for a rifle built in 1902.

Have this rifle inspected by a competent Gunmaker.

 

[PerH]

And in 1905 in Sudan and India came the ban against .450 NE due scare of rebels using components to reload other .450 cartridges that was millitary used which they gotten ahold of .

When in doubt have it checked by a smith that knows them .

 

[sniper7]

Beautiful rifle with I’m sure a ton of history.
I won’t be much help but several on here will be.

I’d have it inspected by a gunsmith who knows doubles. Worth the $$ to make sure you know what you have and what it can shoot

 

[grand veneur]

The rifle makes a good impression at first glance, but it was being worked on. Whether the stock is original is not easy to judge from the pictures, but it could be. The silver pad is new. I think it is a BP rifle and hope that not too much has been changed to it. The serial numbers don't match.

 

[deewayne2003]

Beautiful rifle, If I were you I would send it to JJ as he's one of if not the best double rifle mechanic in U.S.A.

Double Rifle | JJ Perodeau Gunmaker

He'll do a complete inspection and make sure it's ready to go.

 

[Inline6]

@rookhawk might be able to give some guidance.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

If a competent gunsmith gives the green signal, then you're good to go.

Have the hardness of the barrels tested. If it's above 230 Vickers, then you can safely run steel jacketed FMJ bullets in it. Otherwise, stick to copper jacketed FMJ bullets like Wim Degol.

 

[rookhawk]

It's most likely a 450 Black Powder Express. (I see no Nitro proof marks) I believe its a Rigby C-Grade gun, their utility grade popular in India. Bottom of the barrel quality at the time still makes it a very high quality gun.

The first thing that needs to be done is to have it checked over by a skilled double rifle mechanic. JJ Perodeux is a very good option. Specifically, that the gun is tight "on face", that the stock isn't compromised, and that a chamber cast can verify what it was designed to shoot.

If you shove the wrong cartridge in that rifle, there are betting man's odds of severe disability or death.

Physical inspection will determine what it is. I'd trust about 5 people in the USA to make that determination myself, so be wary of a convenient local gunsmith that thinks he knows all about it.

Just because a cartridge fits doesn't mean its safe. Many derivatives of 450 express exist at various pressures and bullet weights. Don't guess, and don't shove something in that gun to try it out.

If its 450 Black Powder Express and overall in good working order, it's a $6000 gun. If its a Nitro Express, add another $10k to the value.

 

[rookhawk]

I cannot see Nitro proof marks and there are some things I don't like about all this marks. It looks like if some marks were engraved later, especially the Rigby trade mark. You have to evaluate pictures critically, but none of this seems to me original for a rifle built in 1902.

Have this rifle inspected by a competent Gunmaker.

The trademark proofs are kosher @grand veneur

Rifle 17004 would fall in line with the ledgers. Gun #16,700 was made in 1900 and gun 17,250 was made in 1905. This rifle falls between those two time periods.

I'm hoping for the sake of value and clarity that there is some engraving on the tubes or under the forend that prescribes X amount of C&H/Curtiss/Curtiss&Harvey powder and Y grain bullet, or better yet the word Cordite (nitro or nitro-for-black) on the rifle somewhere.

 

[Nick1982]

 

[Nick1982]

I hope the foto’s are clear enough. Greetings Nick

 

[rookhawk]

The last pictures are holding promise. The tubes say cordite and 450gr which is good. It's leaning more towards a nitro express loading.

However, we don't know if the gun is mechanically sound and we don't know for certain that a scammer didn't add that info to the tubes. (no Nitro proof marks should be cautionary).

I would get the ledger from John Rigby for 100 pounds to corroborate that it is a 450 Nitro Express 3-1/4".

It could also be a nitro-for-black powder loading (nitro powder at black powder velocities) but the 450gr bullet makes that less likely.

If you can decipher what else is said on those tubes we can weigh in on what the gun claims to be. (we can't proclaim what it has become, however)

 

[Nick1982]

The trademark proofs are kosher @grand veneur

Rifle 17004 would fall in line with the ledgers. Gun #16,700 was made in 1900 and gun 17,250 was made in 1905. This rifle falls between those two time periods.

I'm hoping for the sake of value and clarity that there is some engraving on the tubes or under the forend that prescribes X amount of C&H/Curtiss/Curtiss&Harvey powder and Y grain bullet, or better yet the word Cordite (nitro or nitro-for-black) on the rifle somewhere.

Hello, I just posted Some foto’s.
I am new so i hope it worked.
Greetings Nick.

 

[baxterb]

The last pictures are holding promise. The tubes say cordite and 450gr which is good. It's leaning more towards a nitro express loading.

However, we don't know if the gun is mechanically sound and we don't know for certain that a scammer didn't add that info to the tubes. (no Nitro proof marks should be cautionary).

I would get the ledger from John Rigby for 100 pounds to corroborate that it is a 450 Nitro Express 3-1/4".

It could also be a nitro-for-black powder loading (nitro powder at black powder velocities) but the 450gr bullet makes that less likely.

If you can decipher what else is said on those tubes we can weigh in on what the gun claims to be. (we can't proclaim what it has become, however)

I messed with the contrast to help bring it out. The writing looks to say:

"For Special Cordite Cartridge & Bullets. 480 Grains"