Rifle rentals, how much?

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

A bit bored during our lock down. While doing a major a cleaning of all of our firearms I got to thinking. What do all of you think a proper firearm rental should be on a African hunt? Our average rental rifle would be a M-70 with a Swarovski scope or a iron sighted english Mauser. Here in Zimbabwe our ammunition costs run anywhere from $15.00 to $60.00 per round, when we can find it!

 

[mark-hunter]

In my experience, in two hunts I paid zero for rifle, and zero for ammo, two safaris. In Namibia. Trophy fees, and day rate within average Namibian prices.

And I signed contract with same outfitter, for third time, this year, paid advancement on booking, and this plans are now on hold due to korona pandemics.

I suppose, returning clients is a good thing, from outfitters point of view, but the bottom line, as a client I prefer outfitter not to be picking on small charging, per item.

Of course, everything costs. But neither did I save money from my side in previous two trips. . Each time I shot more then a package, added some more animals, etc.

So, on a personal note, and previous experience I have two suggestions:

Suggestion 1, rifle for free, ammo as per cost per round. Fair and square. Something for free, every client will appreciate.

Suggestion 2. sophisticated method.
When forming overall package price, airport meet and greet, logistics, trackers, skinners, laundry, lodging, food prep, PH etc... include this option in package overall price.

My idea, as client, is that I prefer not to think of pricing per details, i just want to know total price for hunt.
Think of a bullet, same as beer.
How much is price of one beer?
I dont want to go to Africa, and then be pressed of how many beers did I have and if I will be spending too much.

Obviously in Zim, price of ammo is not small.
Take the price of one box of 20 rounds.
Add this to overall cost of safari package. Some clients will shoot more then a box, some will shoot less.

I have seen offers on this forum in range of 20 to 50 usd per rifle, per day. For 7 day hunt, it is not too expensive considering all other costs.
But personally I prefer to know total cost in a single quote. Make it simple.

If a client is coming to shoot a buffalo for 10k, he will equally pay 500 usd more to rent the rifle for 10 days 50 usd/day... why not then forming a package price 10.400 usd? (and add rifle and ammo for free)
Its not a big deal. Some clients will come with their rifle and ammo.. so in average, no loss.

bottom line, i may be old fashion, but I still see safari, as a gentlemens agreement, but it should work both ways.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

In my experience, in two hunts I paid zero for rifle, and zero for ammo, two safaris. In Namibia. Trophy fees, and day rate within average Namibian prices.

And I signed contract with same outfitter, for third time, this year, paid advancement on booking, and this plans are now on hold due to korona pandemics.

I suppose, returning clients is a good thing, from outfitters point of view, but the bottom line, as a client I prefer outfitter not to be picking on small charging, per item.

Of course, everything costs. But neither did I save money from my side in previous two trips. . Each time I shot more then a package, added some more animals, etc.

So, on a personal note, and previous experience I have two suggestions:

Suggestion 1, rifle for free, ammo as per cost per round. Fair and square. Something for free, every client will appreciate.

Suggestion 2. sophisticated method.
When forming overall package price, airport meet and greet, logistics, trackers, skinners, laundry, lodging, food prep, PH etc... include this option in package overall price.

My idea, as client, is that I prefer not to think of pricing per details, i just want to know total price for hunt.
Think of a bullet, same as beer.
How much is price of one beer?
I dont want to go to Africa, and then be pressed of how many beers did I have and if I will be spending too much.

Obviously in Zim, price of ammo is not small.
Take the price of one box of 20 rounds.
Add this to overall cost of safari package. Some clients will shoot more then a box, some will shoot less.

I have seen offers on this forum in range of 20 to 50 usd per rifle, per day. For 7 day hunt, it is not too expensive considering all other costs.
But personally I prefer to know total cost in a single quote. Make it simple.

If a client is coming to shoot a buffalo for 10k, he will equally pay 500 usd more to rent the rifle for 10 days 50 usd/day... why not then forming a package price 10.400 usd? (and add rifle and ammo for free)
Its not a big deal. Some clients will come with their rifle and ammo.. so in average, no loss.

bottom line, i may be old fashion, but I still see safari, as a gentlemens agreement, but it should work both ways.

I very much appreciate your suggestions, I would like to point out all of our hunts are all inclusive price. Except when a client requests to rent a rifle. Any time we have had a client arrive with a malfunctioning rifle we have always furnished at no charge a proper rifle and correct ammo if needed. The only flaw I see in your logic is if we add $400.00 to our price to cover ammo and then the client who brings his own pays the xtra $$$$.

 

[mark-hunter]

Endeed true.
But it is same logic, if a client drinks 2 cases of beer per hunt, plus wisky bottle or other ones drinks only water.

I would be thinking about ammo, in same way as diesel fuel for camp generators.

In any case, ammo must be in camp, same as rifle that needs to be in camp, and same as diesel in cans to bearound as well.

Consumption will be sometimes more, sometimes less. Find the balance.

I am also sure, some clients maybe will not take ammo back home, and will leave it in the camp. This will depend on firearms regulations (not sure for zim), but somewhere they will leave it.
It is a matter of finding good financial balance, in overall pricing per package.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Again I agree with you, except on one point availability, because of the arms embargo on Zimbabwe procurement is a problem not experienced in other African countries, how I wish it was not so. It is not legal for clients to leave their ammo behind, but I believe it happens. As of yesterday due to the Corona Virus it is illegal to sell alcohol, but we do make a plan!

One thing I would like to point out is in Zimbabwe all Lion, Elephant and Leopard hunts must be accompanied by a National Parks Ranger, cost to us is $50.00 per day. We do add that on so that we only have to charge for the days that they are required. Example we have had clients take their elephant the first day. That person paid $50.00 and we have had leopard hunts where a Ranger was required for the total number of days of the hunt that person had to pay for the total number of days. We can all thank Cecil the lion lovers for this one!

 

[mark-hunter]

I am certain, it is not easy for you guys working there, to keep up for logistics.
Lets see if somebody else will have some suggestions on this topic.

 

[Ryan]

As the visiting hunter I can say we hunt because we want to, and we're content with the fees for the hunt services and animals. But we rent the rifle because we have to, so seeing extra fees that add up are definitely seen and remembered as a negative. Like @mark-hunter has mentioned keep this cost as reasonable if not negligable as possible. A simple reasonable flat fee for the rifle, say $100 for the hunt and ammo at cost. I'm ok with that. But when I see per day costs of a rifle and per round costs for ammo it annoys me enough I start looking elsewhere.

I've brought my own rifles twice, to Namibia, which was simple at the time. Then I rented once to RSA and went from bringing to renting on my latest hunt (currently postponed) when transit permits didn't happen right and the baggage and RSA permits became too much of a hassle and cost. Don't add to that frustration. My first outfitter in RSA didn't charge for a 300 Win Mag and 308 I used. The second has no charge for the rifle and a flat fee per box for a 416. Up front, simple, acceptable.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I have rented rifles in Zim, Nam and RSA. The outfitters in Zim and Nam charged $25/day plus ammo cost. RSA did not charge for the rifle, but did charge a slight ammo fee.

With fewer airline options that transport rifles, plus increased airline fees for handling rifles, an outfitter offering quality rental rifles/optics as part of a hunt package or reasonable rental fees is becoming more and more attractive. In some cases, a necessity.

 

[MarkB]

Good post, I agree with @mark-hunter and @Ryan posts and feel the same.

I have taken my own weapons on all my safaris. Admit last was 7 years ago in a different world. When planning for this summers (Covid???) 21 day multi area safari I was shocked at the worlds new fees and rules for travelling with guns. Looked at renting but at $45 US per day plus ammo costs I was somewhat taken back. That total could easily reach or exceed the cost of a new "hunting" gun here in Canada. So I am jumping hoops, organising, and taking my guns. Maybe I should have bartered/discussed this portion of safari, as a non drinker I am sure my alcohol non consumption would cover rental costs? I do prefer to use my own weapons for nostalgia, also my reloaded ammo, just adds to safari.

I do think that free gun rental with an ammo fee will become more prevalent in the future safari marketing options, as flying with weapons becomes harder annually. Outfitters could offer as a bonus for a pre set rate, over the course of a weapons lifetime how many times could a gun be paid for with a set fee per safari of say $100? Ammo rate is covered at current replacement costs and stated before booking, not money making but possibly only cost recovery? I do prefer a known total safari cost before the trip over adding up unknowns and "fees".

Lets all hope this Covid is somewhat relaxed before end June and I can immerse in travelling with weapons and no delaying of safari is required.


MB

 

[gillettehunter]

I despise being "nickel and dimed" to death. I've seen safaris North of $50K that they want to add on airport pickup/return, gun rental, national parks ranger and a fee to transport trophies to the taxi/shipping agent. Plus ones I can't remember..... Stuff like that just drives me nuts. I know you gotta pay to play, but when I feel like someone is taking advantage of me then I go elsewhere. I know you gotta pay for the ranger. I wonder if most of the rest of the fees can't be lumped in elsewhere?
Bruce

 

[Dudders]

I have used a hired rifle on all of my trips. Have no problems in paying for ammunition used as costs are about the same as here in the uk . As for hire I am happy to pay the 25 to 35 dollar charge over that amount I would think a bit harder, probably works out cheaper than bring my own with all the associated costs and hassle associated with travel with a firearm. Also I don't think I could bring a firearm to Zimbabwe from uk so would have to rent any way.

 

[Dudders]

I would add I expect the guns and optics to be of a good standard and safe.

 

[375Fox]

I try to bring my own rifle when possible but I’ve also borrowed a rifle many times. I think posted $25/day is fair, but I also think there should be a cap on the total rifle rental at say $150 for hunt. I will pay ammo at cost I think that’s fair. I’d like to think most people will treat the rental rifle as their own, but I know that’s not always the case, so I can see need to charge (at least on price list).

 

[BRICKBURN]

A bit bored during our lock down. While doing a major a cleaning of all of our firearms I got to thinking. What do all of you think a proper firearm rental should be on a African hunt? Our average rental rifle would be a M-70 with a Swarovski scope or a iron sighted english Mauser. Here in Zimbabwe our ammunition costs run anywhere from $15.00 to $60.00 per round, when we can find it!

Depends on the country I'm headed to.
I think you guys in Zimbabwe are in a tight market really.

Flat rate fee (per safari) for rifle rental - Zero to whatever the market will give you.

Ammunition at cost.
If someone is shooting your $60.00 a round ammunition and is not a marksman that could get rather pricy very quickly. Pull the trigger, you pay. Just as if you brought your own ammunition.

(I have hunted properties in RSA that have a $10.00 fee per missed shot.
Perhaps it is there to make the hunter think about his shooting.)

 

[mark-hunter]

If someone is shooting your $60.00 a round ammunition and is not a marksman that could get rather pricy very quickly. Pull the trigger, you pay. Just as if you brought your own ammunition.

Let me add to this, wounding... it can get costly, very costly with one shot only.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Let me add to this, wounding... it can get costly, very costly with one shot only.

Does that notion change your mind on the cost of renting a rifle?

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I can see that I got a few peoples attention! At least I did not ask if you would expect to pay more for controlled feed (just kidding)!

Of course at the end of the day nothing is free, it is just how it is packaged. As I have stated we are all inclusive except firearm and ammo rental, with advance notice, we actually include the cost of National Parks Rangers, but we refund all days that the Parks Ranger is not required.

Dudders stated that guns and optics should be of good quality, I agree totally. We use top of the line M-70s, Rigby & Jefferies as rentals or loaners depending on circumstances. Ammo is normally Federal Premium. Optics Swarovski only. Possibly some outfitters make a profit from renting firearms and selling ammo, I know we sure do not but it is part of doing business.

With what is happening with airlines and the problems encountered in South Africa more and more hunters are going to renting or using firearms procured at their final destination. Then there are hunters that get a flight for considerably less if they fly on an airline that does not handle firearms.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Brickburn made the comment about a charge for miss shots, ouch! Seriously we have a repeat client who came with a new Leupold scope that I was not familiar with and as I said it was new to him. He was on a leopard hunt and we wanted to be sure that his rifle was spot on at 50 meters. He went through two boxs of cartridges trying to get that scope to shoot more or less where he wanted to be. There was nothing wrong with his shooting we know how he can shoot!

 

[Av8or]

75 $ a day include ammo on 7 days or less . 500 $ including ammo on 10 days plus hunts.

 

[mark-hunter]

Does that notion change your mind on the cost of renting a rifle?

No. Owned rifle, sitting in a rack, or being carried by client around makes no cost to anyone.
On point of wasting the ammo, it could be arranged like price per round fired, or more gently, 1st box of ammo for free on account of overall logistics with beer, wine, diesel, food, laundry, and hunt package, etc, and 2nd box of ammo spent, XX usd per round.

But for bad shooting, the question and solution is different:

It can get to a more specific question.
How incompetent client can be, and what PH and outfitter can really tolerate. And how to handle this situation?
It starts first, with first (presumably honest, and in good faith) exchange of client / outiftter on first contact, when discussing the hunt, a year or 6 months in advance.

At that time, it should be clear what is the clients experience and skill, and what are the clients expectations for the hunt?
its not even too late for client to make some shooting classes or training if need be.

2nd part is testing of client and rifle at range. (with his or rental rifle)
By that time, the things should be clear.

That would be for true gentlemen, a situtation that I could imagine.
But lets imagine, ungentlemanly client?

He says on first contact, large experience, being true marskman, etc...
Comes in camp, cant hit a target on paper.
Now, PH now has a problem. And client as well.

Client wounds the elephant, lets say.
Now what? Charging 50 usd per day of rifle hire, 60 usd per shot fired.... not a solution.
Charging full trophy fee for lost ele, will cover the damage, but will leave bad taste to everyone.
But price of gun rental even if for free or tripled will not solve the issue.