Rifle Opinions

[Odessit86]

Hi ! Everyone.... Sako 85 does not have a control feed .. maybe its a clever way to called CFA... and i never pay attention what they say on their website... i just have eyes .. Its a marketing ....
here guy comparing a bolts....

Sako remembering me a Mobil 1 that say it Full Synthetic oil ... where is IS not .. its part synthetic ... according the law they can have as 10% Synthetic and its allowed them called Full Synthetic...
" Whoever has ears ought to hear" also remember a Nokian tires when they lie about studs .....
they claim whatever they want ... but i see a different ....
Stay Healthy guys

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hi all,

Just a quick one to throw this out there and see who feels what about the following rifles.
I haven't had a chance to handle them yet, i have to travel to Lusaka, probably at the end of this month, to see them and try them out, but in the mean time thought i would get opinions from owners and users...

Looking at a 243 Win and the options are

Tikka T3 hunter
Sauer 101 select
Sako A7
Sako bavarian
Mauser m12

Price wise, the tikka is about $1000 less than the other 4 all being about the same price.
I really prefer a rifle with open sights, but its not a deal breaker on this caliber.
Tikka, Sako Bavarian and Sauer are wood stocked, Mauser and Sako A7 are tupperware based.

Have a go at the poll considering prices and personal experience.

Peter
Forget the 243 to big for small game and to small for medium game.
Go for a 25/06 or a good 6.5 like the Tikka in 6.5x55 or 25 cal you won't go wrong
My 2 cents worth
Bob Nelson

 

[spike.t]

Peter
Forget the 243 to big for small game and to small for medium game.
Go for a 25/06 or a good 6.5 like the Tikka in 6.5x55 or 25 cal you won't go wrong
My 2 cents worth
Bob Nelson

Bob go back to petes post bottom of previous page..

 

[Rule 303]

The SAKO 85 is definitely not control round feed. It is closer to the way the SMLE works. A M98 extractor has the rim of the case start to slip under it from the moment the case starts to move in an upward direction. The SMLE has the rim start to slip under the extractor further forward and the case has not yet left the guide rails yet can still be used as a push feed. The SAKO extractor takes the rim at about the same place in the cycle as the SMLE.

SAKO barrels are not a + compared to the original Tikka Barrels. All the older Tikkas- that is before they were amalgamated/taken over by SAKO and then Beretta - shot a tad better than all the SAKO that I came across. Limited sample size as it was about half a dozen of each and the bolt was way smoother on the Tikka.

Re the ejection problem, no personal experience here. However from all the reading and talking with those that have them you need the highest rings and even then the case can hit the scope turret. Some apparently have the problem and some don't seem to. Go figure.

 

[shark_za]

Is see some people do not know what controlled round feeding means.
The clue is in the name. Its not controlled round ejecting.
The cutout at the bottom part of the bolt is obvious there, it allows the case rim to be grabbed when the round emerges from the magazine. You don't have to close the bolt to pop the extractor over the rim. At the start the round may still be controlled by guide rails yes, but the round is not lying loose in the receiver.
Turn the rifle to the side so the ejection port is facing directly downwards, the Sako clearly holds the case in place during the whole feeding process.
Push feed actions will drop the round.
If you stop early and don't push all the way in you can still eject the round. This is controlled feeding, the Sako does this.

 

[bruce moulds]

my choice is sako Bavarian.
this is because I don't like sako, hate bavarians, and see no use for a 243.
the package is complete.
bruce.

 

[mark-hunter]

my choice is sako Bavarian.
this is because I don't like sako, hate bavarians, and see no use for a 243.

you mean a rifle with tendency of ejection problems, that kind of rifle? You are on good way! Below is mine! (30-06)

 

[Rule 303]

Is see some people do not know what controlled round feeding means.
The clue is in the name. Its not controlled round ejecting.
The cutout at the bottom part of the bolt is obvious there, it allows the case rim to be grabbed when the round emerges from the magazine. You don't have to close the bolt to pop the extractor over the rim. At the start the round may still be controlled by guide rails yes, but the round is not lying loose in the receiver.
Turn the rifle to the side so the ejection port is facing directly downwards, the Sako clearly holds the case in place during the whole feeding process.
Push feed actions will drop the round.
If you stop early and don't push all the way in you can still eject the round. This is controlled feeding, the Sako does this.

Hehehe, ah, not quite right. The SAKO is not a CRF. Have a close look at a Mauser 98 a true CRF. The cartridge rim comes under control, note the word control, of the extractor as it starts to raise from the rails and is still under influence of the rails, not part way down the rails as in the SAKO. It is under control for feeding in and feeding out.

Note to it has been demonstrated many times that a Push Feed will cycle upside down, on it's side etc and not drop out as you say.

 

[MS 9x56]

I know it wasn't on the list, but I'll tell you what I did for my kids:

Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in .243

Whether featherweight or standard, they are around $800-$1300 depending on condition. They all shoot MOA or better and you'll not find a better made American rifle for the money that one of those.

Made the best shot of my life using thIs exact rifle with a Khales 3x9 scope. Killed a woodchuck at a paced off 406 yards shooting offhand (standing up). Tried sitting and kneeling but a slight rise in the middle of the field blocked my view. I almost didn't even walk over to check the hit but a friend goaded me into walking all that way. When we finally found the Chuck minus most of his head he insisted we pace it off as he couldn't believe I actually hit it at that distance offhand. I Bought the rifle while serving in the military in Germany in the 70's.

 

[mark-hunter]

Gents,
What is immediately necessary on this forum is to make definition what is controlled round feed.

1. Only actions based on mauser 98 design, with long extractor claw.
2. Some other types of bolt actions may also be considered having specific features (which ones?) to be similar if not identical to m98 operation, like sako 85, lee enfield SMLE, older steyr luxus, etc

I think until consensus is reached on CRF definition there will never be "peace" on this forum.

 

[MS 9x56]

true, i was referring to a new model, a pre 64 will be next to impossible here in Zambia unless i find someone willing to sell one and the chances of it being in 243 will be pretty slim.
just need to keep my eyes and ears open.

The new Winchester model 70's are every bit as good as the pre 64 at much less than collectors seem to value the pre 64 models. IMHO.

 

[MS 9x56]

i did shoot a jackal with a 243 last weekend with the 87gr peregrine and funnily enough the bullet didnt bounce off it.
i've actually shot quite a lot of small game with the 243 and been quite happy with the caliber, its fun to shoot, no recoil, just looking for a new rifle.
the musgrave that i have, the action jams up often when trying to cycle quickly, the scope isnt great, wood leaves a lot to be desired so though it best to start over from scratch... and a good excuse to try out a new make/model of rifle...

For smaller game the 243 is a good choice. For anything over the size of an impala, be very careful with bullet choice. If speed of follow-up shots is important you may want to consider a Browning BLR or Savage model 99 lever action. You would probably be the only one in your neighborhood to have one of those. Both are available on gun broker for a lot less than the rifles you listed in your poll.

 

[MS 9x56]

I have had each of my Sako trigger pull lighten. But a major reason for liking sako rifles is their quality and the fact you can top up the magazine without taking the magazine out.
Overall the quality, furniture, accuracy, and the smoothness of the bolt operation along with the magazine features, are just great.
You simply cannot go wrong with the Bavarian.

I am biased to the Mannlicher or Stutzen style stocks myself. I currently have 3 a Mannlicher Schoenauer model 1905, a Ruger model 77 RSI in 250-3000, and a CZ 550 FS in 9.3x62. Th MS is the smoothest bolt action ever made by human hands. The CZ is one of the most accurate rifles I own.

 

[James Adamson]

I cant see past Tikka, fantastic value for money IMO.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I voted Sako Bavarian before reading through the thread, with a full stock.(Mannlicher style stutzen) in mind. I see now that configuration isn't available in. 243 Winchester; however it is available in 6.5X55mm Swedish just not locally available for the OP.

https://www.sako.fi/en-us/rifles/sako-85/85-bavarian-carbine

 

[mark-hunter]

There is bavarian in .243:
https://choose.sako.fi/usa/sako_85/85-bavarian?caliber=243 WIN

 

[rookhawk]

The new Winchester model 70's are every bit as good as the pre 64 at much less than collectors seem to value the pre 64 models. IMHO.

A lightly used, or heaven forbid, a "slightly modified" pre-64 (e.g. peep sight or G&H mount added) has lost much of the collector value. As such, they cost the same price roughly as a brand new pseudo-winchester made by FN Herstal. Even unmolested, I bought a pristine 1956 Model 70 Featherweight in .243 for my kids for $1100 at a Cabelas a few years ago.

So for near even money on the purchase, and the fact that the FN loses about HALF its value on the resale and the pre-64 doesn't...why buy new? Only reasonable answer: because I need a caliber that doesn't exist at a reasonable price in pre-64s.

Add to that, the pre-64 reputation is that accuracy is pretty good to very good to exceptionally good. Those accuracy opinions are UNDERSTATED. The pre-64's accuracy reputation that was so favorable is based on crap ammunition from the 1950s-1980s. Its still pretty good to exceptionally good. What about with modern ammo? We took out a pre-64 featherweight and a pre-64 varmint in .243 with 8 different brands of modern factory ammo. The featherweight was 5/8 MOA to 1 MOA at 100 yards with a 4x scope. The varminter with 26" bull barrel was less than 3" groups at 300 yards!

So the accuracy of the pre-64s is far better than originally claimed because it wasn't the gun, it was the ammo that held it back to "darned good" accuracy versus "I can't believe it, this thing is as accurate as a modern $5000 custom rifle".

 

[spike.t]

For smaller game the 243 is a good choice. For anything over the size of an impala, be very careful with bullet choice. If speed of follow-up shots is important you may want to consider a Browning BLR or Savage model 99 lever action. You would probably be the only one in your neighborhood to have one of those. Both are available on gun broker for a lot less than the rifles you listed in your poll.

I am amazed that people keep on going on about this rifle or that rifle which available on gunbroker or gunwhizzbang.com.......that is cheaper than what Petes dad was choosing from.....Try starting from the beginning.... Pete and his dad are in Zambia.... There aren't the massive choices you have in usa...but we are pretty lucky in the choices we do have... I know people are just trying to help but actually reading the thread and the relevant posts might help in formulating replies.... And the fact that the rifle has be purchased... I know I picked it up and took it up to petes dad when I was driving up there.....and it was the mauser as Pete said a few posts ago.....and a 243 is plenty for impala and others as well.....

 

[rookhawk]

I am biased to the Mannlicher or Stutzen style stocks myself. I currently have 3 a Mannlicher Schoenauer model 1905, a Ruger model 77 RSI in 250-3000, and a CZ 550 FS in 9.3x62. Th MS is the smoothest bolt action ever made by human hands. The CZ is one of the most accurate rifles I own.

You're in the minority on this viewpoint, as am I. The mannlicher full length stock is inherently less accurate because of stock swelling, multiple and varied contact points, and the barrel bends (shot stringing) as heat builds up and cannot cool on the belly from shot to shot. For the accuracy-is-everything crowd, this is a dealbreaker. For the hunting crowd where form and function come together, it is a very comfortable gun to carry with a shorter barrel that allows easy shooting from thicker covert. The first shot, the only one that matters when hunting, can be as accurate as any other rifle if properly assembled and tuned.

Nonetheless, accuracy is the most overplayed obsession in rifles. It is subordinate to utility, carry ability, consistent function, and flawless feed. People think accuracy is what makes or breaks a rifle when in fact any reasonable 1 to 1.5 MOA rifle is good enough for most hunting if all the other parts are in place.

 

[Ray B]

The problem with accuracy is how it is defined. I recall an advertisement about 60 years ago by Sierra Bullet company requesting shooters submit targets at which they had fired 10 shots. the expectation was that the targets would have been at 100 yards and the groups were about 1 inch in diameter. also about that time I recall reading articles where the authors opined about the number of shots that actually measured the accuracy of a rifle. I recall one that wrote that 10 shots was too many but that 3 were insufficient- 5 was the best amount. What they were describing was repeatable accuracy. If the shooter is engaged in a rifle match or a day of varmint shooting that applies. For big game it does not. For big game the vast majority of game animals are taken with one shot not a barrage of 10. So the level of accuracy necessary to the big game hunter is to know precisely where that first shot from a cold barrel will go. Whether the rifle has different stress points or a thin barrel that heats quickly is not an issue provided that the shooter knows where that first shot will go- that is the level and definition of accuracy that applies to a big game hunter. So bring on the full length un-free bedded stocks.