Rewilding America (your thoughts)

[Ike85123]

+1. I would like to see bison mostly everywhere where they were historically. I find it interesting that wolves are mentioned quite often as a reintroduction species, but not a word about the bison. I think if wolves are introduced somewhere, then bison should be required too, or neither species. I would think this could be a legal argument to prevent wolves from being introduced without the bison?

I agree.
In 1492 columbus pulled in with a bunch of people, and everything went down hill quick.
Bison, jaguars and a few others are too few now.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I agree.
In 1492 columbus pulled in with a bunch of people, and everything went down hill quick.
Bison, jaguars and a few others are too few now.

Yeah, but it was the Vikings before Columbus. They put the directions to NA in a ceramic jar and it just happened to end up in Spain, and the rest is history. I read this somewhere on the internet, or maybe it was from someone here on AH?

 

[curtism1234]

@Wishfulthinker580 no doubt wolves kill cattle and sheep. The USDA's stats are 1 in 44,000 cows and 1 in 7,000 sheep. Of course some ranchers suffer more than others. That being said, mountain lions kill over 2x the livestock, domestic dogs also kill 2x the livestock, and coyotes kill 14x the livestock than do wolves. So I do not think the ranching industry as a whole has a legitimate beef with wolves. Get it, beef

I believe a United States with wolves is far better than a United States without wolves.

 

[Cervus elaphus]

America had lions,elephants, camels,cheetahs and alot of animals that are now gone. I've read the debates on this topic. Ranging from the animals helping the ecosystem to public safety to hurting current animal habitat.
What are your thoughts? Would you be in favor of an american safari within our national parks?

+1. I would like to see bison mostly everywhere where they were historically. I find it interesting that wolves are mentioned quite often as a reintroduction species, but not a word about the bison. I think if wolves are introduced somewhere, then bison should be required too, or neither species. I would think this could be a legal argument to prevent wolves from being introduced without the bison?
Oh yeah, and written into the reintroduction law, would be when their numbers reach a certain threshold, they are required to be managed through controlled hunting seasons.

Sensible game management are key words here and I don't know of any gov body in the US or Canada that could organize a boozeup in a brewery when it came to game management (perhaps somebody does and can give us an example). They may be successful in Las Vegas. If you're going to get into bowhunting, I would suggest you do so now, to get in some practice before Uncle Joe strips you of your assault PG and DG rifles.

 

[Cervus elaphus]

@Wishfulthinker580 no doubt wolves kill cattle and sheep. The USDA's stats are 1 in 44,000 cows and 1 in 7,000 sheep. Of course some ranchers suffer more than others. That being said, mountain lions kill over 2x the livestock, domestic dogs also kill 2x the livestock, and coyotes kill 14x the livestock than do wolves. So I do not think the ranching industry as a whole has a legitimate beef with wolves. Get it, beef

I believe a United States with wolves is far better than a United States without wolves.

Wolves will never be extinct in America, there is a secure breeding population in DC. In Australia wild dogs (domestic breeding with dingoes) are a major problem for farmers despite continual poisoning shooting etc and they are as cunning as a poly voting for a payrise.

 

[Ike85123]

Sensible game management are key words here and I don't know of any gov body in the US or Canada that could organize a boozeup in a brewery when it came to game management (perhaps somebody does and can give us an example). They may be successful in Las Vegas. If you're going to get into bowhunting, I would suggest you do so now, to get in some practice before Uncle Joe strips you of your assault PG and DG rifles.

U mean the ones he knows about, right ? Lol

 

[Cervus elaphus]

U mean the ones he knows about, right ? Lol

The ones that didn't fall out of the canoe crossing the lake

 

[Deleted member 53080]

@Wishfulthinker580 no doubt wolves kill cattle and sheep. The USDA's stats are 1 in 44,000 cows and 1 in 7,000 sheep. Of course some ranchers suffer more than others. That being said, mountain lions kill over 2x the livestock, domestic dogs also kill 2x the livestock, and coyotes kill 14x the livestock than do wolves. So I do not think the ranching industry as a whole has a legitimate beef with wolves. Get it, beef

I believe a United States with wolves is far better than a United States without wolves.

Mo wolves mo problems. I imagine those numbers will increase exponentially with an increase in wolf numbers. The predators you mentioned can hardly compete with a pack of wolves. We will have to agree to disagree on whether the reintroduction of wolves is a good idea or not

 

[Red Leg]

+1. I would like to see bison mostly everywhere where they were historically. I find it interesting that wolves are mentioned quite often as a reintroduction species, but not a word about the bison. I think if wolves are introduced somewhere, then bison should be required too, or neither species. I would think this could be a legal argument to prevent wolves from being introduced without the bison?
Oh yeah, and written into the reintroduction law, would be when their numbers reach a certain threshold, they are required to be managed through controlled hunting seasons.

For the buffalo, you would have to displace the cattle industry and dry land farming across much of the Midwest and West - and remove fences. We export a lot of meat products and grain to the world.

Wolves occupied vast areas that held little or no buffalo population. One reason the reintroduction has gone so well in so many areas.

 

[WilhelmM]

America had lions,elephants, camels,cheetahs and alot of animals that are now gone. I've read the debates on this topic. Ranging from the animals helping the ecosystem to public safety to hurting current animal habitat.
What are your thoughts? Would you be in favor of an american safari within our national parks?

I'd love to see ancient lions and mammoths but not artificially reintroduced into the wild. Maybe just a sanctuary.

 

[CoElkHunter]

For the buffalo, you would have to displace the cattle industry and dry land farming across much of the Midwest and West - and remove fences. We export a lot of meat products and grain to the world.

Wolves occupied vast areas that held little or no buffalo population. One reason the reintroduction has gone so well in so many areas.

Red Leg,
I personally do not want to see a large population of reintroduced wolves in Colorado. A large population could decimate the deer and elk herds. I think the uncontrolled, until recently, wolf populations in Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin have had a detrimental affect on those states' deer herds. A controllable number would be fine, but I don't see that happening in Colorado. As far as Bison are concerned, your right, my "utopian" idea of reestablishing them everywhere wouldn't work. But, just as they were "forced" into Yellowstone from the plains, many hundreds/thousands could be established in the many thousands of suitable square miles of National Forest throughout the West. Remember, both bison AND elk were once almost exclusively plains animals, and were pushed into the mountains due to uncontrolled meat hunting in the 1800s. Good news for elk here, is they have started to reestablish themselves on the plains once again in Southeast Colorado.
CEH

 

[CoElkHunter]

@Wishfulthinker580 no doubt wolves kill cattle and sheep. The USDA's stats are 1 in 44,000 cows and 1 in 7,000 sheep. Of course some ranchers suffer more than others. That being said, mountain lions kill over 2x the livestock, domestic dogs also kill 2x the livestock, and coyotes kill 14x the livestock than do wolves. So I do not think the ranching industry as a whole has a legitimate beef with wolves. Get it, beef

I believe a United States with wolves is far better than a United States without wolves.

curtism1234,
Wolf populations control coyote populations, which in return, control fox populations. Here in Colorado and most places throughout much of this country, there are no wolf populations to speak of. That is why you are seeing coyotes killing 14x the livestock as do wolves. THERE ARE NO WOLVES yet in most areas of the country that have livestock! I too would like to see a SMALL population of wolves here in Colorado, but I fear it won't stay small? Big game hunting here in Colorado provides more tax revenue to the state than the skiing industry. If the wolf population isn't controlled here after their introduction, which is coming soon, the big game populations will take a beating and so will the state's tax revenue.
CEH

 

[crs]

"Bison, jaguars and a few others are too few now." Too few for who" Or whom?

Ho hum. Back to mowing the pasture. At least I can see the results of my time and efforts.

 

[CoElkHunter]

"Bison, jaguars and a few others are too few now." Too few for who" Or whom?

Ho hum. Back to mowing the pasture. At least I can see the results of my time and efforts.

crs:
Take one of your doubles with you on the mower. Something might pop up to shoot?
CEH

 

[crs]

CEH,
Nothing here but Welsh Ponies and assorted small critters like squirrels, skunks, dillers, snakes, lots of birds, etc. Have not seen a coyote in years, just the occasional stray dog or cat..

 

[Ike85123]

"Bison, jaguars and a few others are too few now." Too few for who" Or whom?

Ho hum. Back to mowing the pasture. At least I can see the results of my time and efforts.

Haven't heard of a jaguar in my area since around 1990. Would see one every so often as a kid.

 

[Red Leg]

CEH,
Nothing here but Welsh Ponies and assorted small critters like squirrels, skunks, dillers, snakes, lots of birds, etc. Have not seen a coyote in years, just the occasional stray dog or cat..

You must live in a civilized part of Texas. We live outside Georgetown and the greater Austin metro area. Wildlife abounds here along the San Gabriel. As I type, a drake wood duck is standing on a pecan limb in our front yard (hen is nesting in a hollow in the tree). I am regularly doing battle with coyotes (we can't keep a barn cat for more than a month or so before finding a bit of fur), rattlesnakes, and the ever present wild pig plague. A mountain lion was killed about five miles from here just a few years ago and several are spotted along the Central Texas drainages every year. While urban sprawl is clearly impacting wildlife negatively (well maybe not whitetail), farm and ranch consolidation is actually reducing human interaction in traditional farming and ranching areas.

 

[Randy F]

For now I’d be happy with reintroducing working for a living and handouts only for those that actually need it.
Cancel that culture. Then we work on more critters.

 

[NE 7x57]

When I was a kid you rarely saw deer in the area around our farm in SW Nebraska. My uncle, who I hunted with until he was 86 told me that when he was a kid (early 30s) you never saw deer, even in the South Platte River bottom ground. There weren't any turkeys either. There were lots of pheasants and in the fall and winter, water fowl.

Over the decades that's changed dramatically. We now have deer, both mule deer and white tail. We have turkeys, unless of course you're looking for them. There are mountain lions in the area although you rarely see them and a few antelope. The only one of these which were actually introduced were the turkeys. Oh and we also have a handful of bighorn sheep.

Additionally we now have elk in parts of Nebraska. This has come about over the past 3 decades. For years there were reports of elk which no one believed until finally they moved into areas with more people and became more visible. Nebraska now has an elk season and has even had to issue some depredation permits to attempt to push elk out of irrigated corn fields where they make a bit of a mess.

What we don't have at this point are wild hogs or wolves and hopefully we never get them. Although the wolves are next door in Wyoming and the hogs aren't that far away either, so time will tell.

Many of the animals will re introduce themselves if the ecosystem will support them. Others couldn't coexist with modern agriculture and unfortunately bison are one of those. They do pretty well in large managed areas but they would be a disaster as a free range animal.

 

[CoElkHunter]

When I was a kid you rarely saw deer in the area around our farm in SW Nebraska. My uncle, who I hunted with until he was 86 told me that when he was a kid (early 30s) you never saw deer, even in the South Platte River bottom ground. There weren't any turkeys either. There were lots of pheasants and in the fall and winter, water fowl.

Over the decades that's changed dramatically. We now have deer, both mule deer and white tail. We have turkeys, unless of course you're looking for them. There are mountain lions in the area although you rarely see them and a few antelope. The only one of these which were actually introduced were the turkeys. Oh and we also have a handful of bighorn sheep.

Additionally we now have elk in parts of Nebraska. This has come about over the past 3 decades. For years there were reports of elk which no one believed until finally they moved into areas with more people and became more visible. Nebraska now has an elk season and has even had to issue some depredation permits to attempt to push elk out of irrigated corn fields where they make a bit of a mess.

What we don't have at this point are wild hogs or wolves and hopefully we never get them. Although the wolves are next door in Wyoming and the hogs aren't that far away either, so time will tell.

Many of the animals will re introduce themselves if the ecosystem will support them. Others couldn't coexist with modern agriculture and unfortunately bison are one of those. They do pretty well in large managed areas but they would be a disaster as a free range animal.

I/we saw a large black wolf standing on a bluff between Smith Center and McCook when coming back to McCook when pheasant hunting two years ago. It was pretty cool seeing it. But, I’m sure there’s more coming.