REPORT: My recent experience with Karoo Taxidermy

[Bill Thompson]

Bill, do you still have copies of the weigh bills from all those shipments?
I would be interested to see what charges, rates, surcharges, etc. and weights/vol weights were on them all.
Routing of the flights, etc was.

(Shipping: The most misunderstood area of the whole Safari with the most surprises and misunderstandings)

Was there any reasoning behind the multiple boxes/crates being sent?

I am having an attorney look into and been advised on sharing specific docs regarding this potential case.

I was present when my taxidermist opened both of my boxes and we believe they could have been combined into 1.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I am having an attorney look into and been advised on sharing specific docs regarding this potential case.

I was present when my taxidermist opened both of my boxes and we believe they could have been combined into 1.

Hope you get a resolution.

This image starts creeping into my mind when you mention attorney though.
(Take this in the positive manner it is meant)

 

[robertq]

Dear All....I have been reading these threads in utter amazement and absorbing how people can be easily misled....I will keep this brief and separate fact from fiction.
Fact: It starts with the outfitter. The outfitter is obligated to conduct a legal hunt which means every hunter who pulls the trigger must pull the trigger under his/her own hunting permit.

Fact: The outfitter submits the PH Register(s) to the Dip/Packer/Taxidermist which in turn, gets submitted to Nature Conservation (or whatever the countries' permit office is called) for producing export permits required for EVERY shipment entering this country (cites are extra).

Fact: If the Dip/Packer/Taxidermist is legit and licensed by the governments' State Vet, they are obligated to comply with getting the permits in conformance with the paperwork (PH Register and other applicable paperwork) submitted to them by the outfitter. If anyone tells you differently, they are flat out lying to you (This can further be confirmed in South Africa by PHASA (PH Association of SA of whom we are a member).
Having said this, there are people (in Africa and the US) who will manipulate the system and risk co-mingling trophies in a crate or permits to save on cost because they don't care enough to do what it takes to pass savings to the hunter legitimately.
This is why we will only work with legitimate operations hence our working relationship with Karoo Taxidermy--one of the best in South Africa. They and others rely on SSI to do right by the client by doing simple things like consolidating a shipment with others such that the rate to ship is lower for all in the group and the hunter pays their proportionate costf or their individual crate using the lower shipping rate.

Fact: The risk of being misled by this co-mingling concept is obvious--1. the risk of seizure by USFWL is real and if gets past them, 2. the hunter risks not having legal ownership of the trophies depending on how it gets cleared in the US.

Fact: Hunters need to do their homework especially when buying a hunt at auction because the expectation of the hunter (especially a first time hunter) never matches the reality of what is purchased.
We welcome anyone wanting to call to discuss any particular situation....an educated hunter is a wise hunter.

Robert

 

[robertq]

Brickburn your spot on !!!!!!!!!
We deal with this every day....
Thank you're for saving me time in typing all this out.....

 

[blackdog001blackdog001]

I am reading this thread and it is a hoot. Guy posts a complaint and you get defenders and aggressors and my favorite, those with no dog in the fight offering all sorts of "if you used me, this would not have happened." and "use me in the future and I guarantee this won't happen".

I will give you some facts on import, gained from my experience importing live dogs and cats through JFK as a pet shipper (agent) :

1. If is coming in through JFK it is going to cost more. It is NYC and the brokers and forwarders charge more. Fact of life. If you are not close to JFK, consider another USDA designated port of entry. I once had a guy carge $250 for about 10 keystrokes on a computer to clear the import. Seriously. But, the only way I could get it done.

2. I have used Fauna and Flora for my hunting trophies and they are excellent. Not cheap. Like most things in life, you get what you pay for. I'm not pimping for them as there are numerous others who clear, but I've not used them. If your trophies come in through JFK you are better off using a local agent. Why? Because occassionally, someone is going to have to go over to Customs or USDA and straighten it out. Trust me, it gets done a lot quicker in person, than on the phone or email. If you come in through Chicago, use a Chicago based agent. Sure the guy in NYC can handle it, but if there is a problem, he may have to call someone in Chicago to fix it. The freight side of JFK is lined with the offices and warehouses of customs brokers and forwarders.

3. Consider having someone clear for you and then you pick up the boxes at the airline and drive them to your taxidermist or home yourself. You save the ground freight from the airport - duh.

4. Clear them yourself. Gets done everyday.

5. Problems in Africa - it's Africa. What do you expect?

6. Think of it this way - you've made arrangements in Africa while you were there for dip and pack or taxid, then you leave. When it is ready to be shipped, you are several thousand miles away and emotionally and financially invested in the trophies. Think the guy is Africa might sense an opportunity to "pad the bill" so to speak.

7. The comments on co-mingling of trophies into the US are 100% correct. Customs used that line about record keeping - maybe. The real reason is security on any freight coming into the US. TSA wants one guys name and addy on the box so if something is not on the up and up, they know who to go to. That name and addy better be the same as on the bill(s) of lading and export paperwork.

8. Ocean works and it is cheaper. Slower, but cheaper. Makes sense. Right?

Use the above FWIW but I see this stuff day in and day out, through the busiest port of entry for air freight in the US.

 

[robertq]

Blackdog001, Thank you for making the case of what we have been saying from day 1. Being proactive BEFORE going on a hunt, avoids all these discussions because knowledge is power. We educate on a daily basis and all of our six offices (NY, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston & LA) deal with USFWL, CDC, USDA and Customs in PERSON. And for the record, container shipping by ocean may be cheaper upfront, however, you don't mention about the higher clearing cost at the port for stripping, vaccis, exray and port fees that are not required for airfreight. We get a lower airfrieght rate for a consolidated shipping (defined as multiple crates on one master airway bill) which many times, is equal to the cost of shipping by ocean but no one tells you that. Regardless, we call it like we see it and we deal with this 24/7.....Thank you for bringing this up.

 

[BRICKBURN]

.............

I will give you some facts on import, gained from my experience importing live dogs and cats through JFK as a pet shipper (agent) :...................

7. The comments on co-mingling of trophies into the US are 100% correct. Customs used that line about record keeping - maybe. The real reason is security on any freight coming into the US. TSA wants one guys name and addy on the box so if something is not on the up and up, they know who to go to. That name and addy better be the same as on the bill(s) of lading and export paperwork.
..........

I would have little doubt "the line" was used by the USFWS. Whether it makes sense or not is another matter.


Banning co-mingling trophy shipments makes no sense (to me) for "security" reasons.
How is that process more secure?

 

[blackdog001blackdog001]

Brickburn - Stuff tht comes into the US as air freight goes through a set of security protocols, depending on lots of things about the freight: size, contents, originating country, etc. Some gets searched, some gets xrayed, etc., depending on the protocols. Some is pulled for random checks. One time, I had to pull a live domestic cat out of the crate, so the guy could swab the inside of the crate for explosives (I don't make this stuff up).

The name of the consignee gets put into the US Customs database prior to the plane departing for the US and I'll wager an expensive lunch, gets checked against the databases of "bad guys and gals". Get a match, it gets pulled for further exam. More than one name clutters up that process. Not to mention that the individual bill of lading for the shipment can have only one cosignee (lots of reasons for this not all having to do with security).

They can't search or xray every item so they have developed security protocols and procedures to minimize the risk of explosives, nuclear material, etc., coming into the US as air cargo.

I'm not saying it always makes sense (I told the guy who swabbed the crate, why don't you just look inside and you can see there is nothing in there but the cat, but his protocol was to swab for explosives). Others, I've had them simply look inside (when there were blankets, toys, etc that could have been explosives).

Like I said, take it FWIW.

 

[BRICKBURN]

..................

I'm not saying it always makes sense (I told the guy who swabbed the crate, why don't you just look inside and you can see there is nothing in there but the cat, but his protocol was to swab for explosives). Others, I've had them simply look inside (when there were blankets, toys, etc that could have been explosives).

Like I said, take it FWIW.

I think the guy just did not have the guts to check the cat itself.

I won't take the lunch bet.

I saw for some reason that Hunting Trophies were on the High Risk imports list. There must be some reason.

 

[Hank2211]

I am reading this thread and it is a hoot. Guy posts a complaint and you get defenders and aggressors and my favorite, those with no dog in the fight . . . .

With Blackdog on this one. More and more, it seems, people join AH to post a complaint. There's nothing wrong with that necessarily, unless that's the only reason they want to be here. Frankly, in many cases, had the person joined before the hunt they would not have run into the problem they did.

Here, we have a story from a hunter which appears legit - and I have no reason to doubt that it is. Lots of people jump in to say isn't that a shame, too bad there are bad [you pick it] out there . . . and then we find out that there's another side to the story. Then the defenders of the other side come out.

In this particular case, reputable people are vouching for the taxidermist, and unless lots of other people come forward with problems, I personally am prepared to chalk it up to the usual issue - poor communication, both before and after the hunt. I'd suggest that with respect to the actual issue itself, we let the parties work it out rather than taking sides based on nothing more than what we read here.

Having said that, I've found the ancillary information about shipping, combining shipments, playing with hunting registers, etc. to be very interesting and worthwhile. Probably worthy of its own thread.

Each time I see something like this, I remind myself not to jump to conclusions. And then I forget to remind myself when I do it. Perils of aging.

 

[Brandon Ryan]

Fact is our last trip, 2 individual wood crates were strapped and shipped together, shipping was significantly less with larger animals . We requested that our two crates be shipped together and provided shipping tags for each of our trophies our taxidermist had provided us. We were assured our requests would be followed by Nikita at Karoo taxidermy, they weren't. We were not requesting that they combine our trophies in one crate. They shipped our trophies in four small cardboard boxes. I have been a member of Africa hunting .com prior to this and enjoyed reading the posts and viewing the pictures, I have to say though I am seriously concerned that most of the interest in this feed has been issued by the friends of Karoo taxidermy fund, which I must admit I would think would be a limited group. I contacted two other Karoo customers that recently shared their negative experience with me at the SCI fundraiser to join in, but feel why bother. So, to you that wish to do business with this company, go right ahead, good luck to you, you'll need it. We were also offered a $1,000.00 voucher to use Karoo taxidermy to mount our trophies after touring their warehouse decided they could keep their voucher.

Dear All....I have been reading these threads in utter amazement and absorbing how people can be easily misled....I will keep this brief and separate fact from fiction.
Fact: It starts with the outfitter. The outfitter is obligated to conduct a legal hunt which means every hunter who pulls the trigger must pull the trigger under his/her own hunting permit.

Fact: The outfitter submits the PH Register(s) to the Dip/Packer/Taxidermist which in turn, gets submitted to Nature Conservation (or whatever the countries' permit office is called) for producing export permits required for EVERY shipment entering this country (cites are extra).

Fact: If the Dip/Packer/Taxidermist is legit and licensed by the governments' State Vet, they are obligated to comply with getting the permits in conformance with the paperwork (PH Register and other applicable paperwork) submitted to them by the outfitter. If anyone tells you differently, they are flat out lying to you (This can further be confirmed in South Africa by PHASA (PH Association of SA of whom we are a member).
Having said this, there are people (in Africa and the US) who will manipulate the system and risk co-mingling trophies in a crate or permits to save on cost because they don't care enough to do what it takes to pass savings to the hunter legitimately.
This is why we will only work with legitimate operations hence our working relationship with Karoo Taxidermy--one of the best in South Africa. They and others rely on SSI to do right by the client by doing simple things like consolidating a shipment with others such that the rate to ship is lower for all in the group and the hunter pays their proportionate costf or their individual crate using the lower shipping rate.

Fact: The risk of being misled by this co-mingling concept is obvious--1. the risk of seizure by USFWL is real and if gets past them, 2. the hunter risks not having legal ownership of the trophies depending on how it gets cleared in the US.

Fact: Hunters need to do their homework especially when buying a hunt at auction because the expectation of the hunter (especially a first time hunter) never matches the reality of what is purchased.
We welcome anyone wanting to call to discuss any particular situation....an educated hunter is a wise hunter.

Robert

Robert,
no one mentioned co mingling trophies in the same crate. Requested both (individual) crates be shipped together. Don't try to put this on the PH it's obvious that you and Karoo taxidermy have a business relationship. And yes, we were misled but it was from your pals at Karoo taxidermy.

 

[Brandon Ryan]

I am reading this thread and it is a hoot. Guy posts a complaint and you get defenders and aggressors and my favorite, those with no dog in the fight offering all sorts of "if you used me, this would not have happened." and "use me in the future and I guarantee this won't happen".

I will give you some facts on import, gained from my experience importing live dogs and cats through JFK as a pet shipper (agent) :

1. If is coming in through JFK it is going to cost more. It is NYC and the brokers and forwarders charge more. Fact of life. If you are not close to JFK, consider another USDA designated port of entry. I once had a guy carge $250 for about 10 keystrokes on a computer to clear the import. Seriously. But, the only way I could get it done.

2. I have used Fauna and Flora for my hunting trophies and they are excellent. Not cheap. Like most things in life, you get what you pay for. I'm not pimping for them as there are numerous others who clear, but I've not used them. If your trophies come in through JFK you are better off using a local agent. Why? Because occassionally, someone is going to have to go over to Customs or USDA and straighten it out. Trust me, it gets done a lot quicker in person, than on the phone or email. If you come in through Chicago, use a Chicago based agent. Sure the guy in NYC can handle it, but if there is a problem, he may have to call someone in Chicago to fix it. The freight side of JFK is lined with the offices and warehouses of customs brokers and forwarders.

3. Consider having someone clear for you and then you pick up the boxes at the airline and drive them to your taxidermist or home yourself. You save the ground freight from the airport - duh.

4. Clear them yourself. Gets done everyday.

5. Problems in Africa - it's Africa. What do you expect?

6. Think of it this way - you've made arrangements in Africa while you were there for dip and pack or taxid, then you leave. When it is ready to be shipped, you are several thousand miles away and emotionally and financially invested in the trophies. Think the guy is Africa might sense an opportunity to "pad the bill" so to speak.

7. The comments on co-mingling of trophies into the US are 100% correct. Customs used that line about record keeping - maybe. The real reason is security on any freight coming into the US. TSA wants one guys name and addy on the box so if something is not on the up and up, they know who to go to. That name and addy better be the same as on the bill(s) of lading and export paperwork.

8. Ocean works and it is cheaper. Slower, but cheaper. Makes sense. Right?

Use the above FWIW but I see this stuff day in and day out, through the busiest port of entry for air freight in the US.

Hi Black dog,
We used the same port of entry this time as 2011, NY. In 2011 we had two wood crates ( one each)filled with dip and packed trophies, each had much larger animals, eland, zebra, kudu, gemsbuck, wildebeest, impala, springbuck, bushbuck. shipped all the way through to our taxidermist here in Michigan. This time we had smaller animals and asked to ship each of our crates together, not comingled as the gentleman here is suggestion. We received four separate cardboard crates and cost us a lot more. we were told by the first company we used in 2011, our customs clearing in NY and our taxidermist that we could save a pretty penny by having our crates strapped together and shipped. I agree with you some of these responses have a dog in the fight.

 

[Brandon Ryan]

With Blackdog on this one. More and more, it seems, people join AH to post a complaint. There's nothing wrong with that necessarily, unless that's the only reason they want to be here. Frankly, in many cases, had the person joined before the hunt they would not have run into the problem they did.

Here, we have a story from a hunter which appears legit - and I have no reason to doubt that it is. Lots of people jump in to say isn't that a shame, too bad there are bad [you pick it] out there . . . and then we find out that there's another side to the story. Then the defenders of the other side come out.

In this particular case, reputable people are vouching for the taxidermist, and unless lots of other people come forward with problems, I personally am prepared to chalk it up to the usual issue - poor communication, both before and after the hunt. I'd suggest that with respect to the actual issue itself, we let the parties work it out rather than taking sides based on nothing more than what we read here.

Having said that, I've found the ancillary information about shipping, combining shipments, playing with hunting registers, etc. to be very interesting and worthwhile. Probably worthy of its own thread.

Each time I see something like this, I remind myself not to jump to conclusions. And then I forget to remind myself when I do it. Perils of aging.

Hi Hank,
Didn't join to complain, I've been a member for over three years and after the experience I just had I thought I would share it with all of you that perhaps you might be spared the same experience. Life is short, to short in fact to spend this much time on such a negative subject but it needed to be shared.

Good Hunting!

 

[BRICKBURN]

.................

Having said that, I've found the ancillary information about shipping, combining shipments, playing with hunting registers, etc. to be very interesting and worthwhile. Probably worthy of its own thread. ........

I thought the same thing and am working on that exact article as we converse here. With help from some of the industry wizards.

I would like people to be able to avoid this kind of encounter, be it an anomaly or a regular occurrence.

 

[BRICKBURN]

.................
no one mentioned co mingling trophies in the same crate. ..............

Brandon, I may have been the one to bring up co-mingling trophies. Just wondered if that was a possibility given the rules for importing trophies into the US.

e.g.. As a scenario that crossed my mind:

• It was requested by the hunter to consolidate the trophies into fewer crates.
• The Taxidermy or freight forwarding company does not say No to this request immediately (for whatever reason).
• The failure to consolidate is discovered later, when the crates arrive at destination.
• Result: pissed off hunters.

If that does not explain the communication problem, fair enough.

 

[robertq]

Hi Brandon,
I'm not putting the blame on the PH......
You are not reading what I wrote.
I have no dog in this fight and all I'm trying to do is HELP you to understand the process.
I speak for my company ONLY and do not appreciate the undertone of what you say is obvious about 'my business relationship' with Karoo or any other taxidermist we work with.
Sir, What does the strapping of crates have to do with the price of shipping ? Two crates strapped together or two crates travelling together under one Master Airway Bill with two House Airway Bills makes no difference....the shipping is based on weight. This is called consolidation...One Master Airway Bill with as many House Airway Bills going to one agent via the appointed shipper. If you were not consolidated, you paid premium price to get those two crates home. Period. It really is that simple and shame on the shipper, not the taxidermist. Thanks, Robert.

 

[Hank2211]

Hi Hank,
Didn't join to complain, I've been a member for over three years and after the experience I just had I thought I would share it with all of you that perhaps you might be spared the same experience. Life is short, to short in fact to spend this much time on such a negative subject but it needed to be shared.

Good Hunting!

Brandon, I was referring to the individual who started this thread, where it says he joined on Saturday. Apologies if I implied anything about you. Not my intent.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Brandon, I was referring to the individual who started this thread, where it says he joined on Saturday. Apologies if I implied anything about you. Not my intent.[/QUOTE

Hi Hank,

I am the individual that started this on Saturday. I did not join to complain, unfortunately this occurrence happened simultaneously so the first thing I thought of was to inform other hunters. Thank you for bashing me for it.

 

[Hank2211]

You're welcome.

 

[Brantford_Girl]

We have received 17 trophies prepared by Karoo Taxidermy and our friends have had 10 completed. We couldn't be happier. We were very new to hunting in Africa and Tim from Karoo talked us through the whole process. When we asked about combining our shipment with our friends he explained there were many issues surrounding that both between friends and legally. That was good enough for us. I do feel for the gentleman that was not happy with his shipment. Consistent service is every businesses goal but hard to achieve. I believe they experienced sticker shock when they received their shipping invoice and that was the icing on the cake. I would refer Karoo Taxidermy anytime. My friend made a good point when I was concerned about my shipping invoice being $2400. He pointed out our flight seats to Africa were over $2000 and took up much less space on the plane. Why do we spend thousands of $ on a hunt of a lifetime and cheap out on things like shipping, bullets, scopes and foot ware LOL. I would visit Karoo Taxidermy if you ever have a chance they have awesome craftsmen and women. They have not grown to the point they are at by not delivering great work. Trust the opinion of your PH he always strives to have a happy client and will be honest with you, Happy Hunting