Remington 798 (Zastava Mauser) extraction issues - Replacement claw needed?

[fourfive8]

It is really hard to asses by photos only without in person inspection. I still wonder if that isn’t the wrong extractor? They are not super critical but there are differences based on ranges of case base diameters. The other part of the reliable extraction equation is the opposing rim formed by the rebated bolt face. That rim acts in opposition to the extractor keeping the case’s rim secured to the extractor until the ejector blade forces the case’s rim to pop (rotate) off the bolt face near the end of the bolt throw.

In any case, these gremlins are sometimes tough to analyze and correct. By posting results and the process, it helps everyone in trouble shooting. Keep posting updates . Thanks

 

[fourfive8]

Here's a couple of photos showing proper case head fit and capture in a Mauser bolt face and extractor. The half circumference rim created by the rebated bolt face along with the bolster extension of the opposing lug provides consistent engagement of the case rim into the extractor claw.

 

[cash_tx]

Here's a couple of photos showing proper case head fit and capture in a Mauser bolt face and extractor. The half circumference rim created by the rebated bolt face along with the bolster extension of the opposing lug provides consistent engagement of the case rim into the extractor claw.

View attachment 569923


View attachment 569924

Thank you for these, they should prove very helpful! I'll try to do some comparison to my bolt when I get some time next week. Much appreciated!

 

[fourfive8]

Another couple of photos showing two types of extractors. One type, some call the original M98 type, has an undercut guide channel in the bolt head into which a beveled guide on the extractor slides. Some other Mausers and various other CRF type designs like the M70 do not have the undercut guide channel in the bolt head nor the matching beveled guide on the extractor. I don't know if there could be a mismatch between bolt and extractor guide on the problem bolt that could cause an extraction problem or if the guide was modified on the extractor? I know that some attempt to modify original 98 type bolts and extractors to allow for popping the extractor over the case rim so that a round could be single loaded directly into the chamber without having to pick it up out of the magazine... creating a type of push feed chambering. If your bolt head extractor guide groove is undercut and the guide on the extractor does not have a matching bevel, then either that modification was attempted or the extractor does not match the bolt. ??

Just thinking out loud here, but might be worth a look see.

This photo shows the bevel on the extractor guide and undercut channel (dotted line) on a Mauser type 98 bolt - I simply left the extractor on the bolt and pried it open a little with a small screw driver to show the relationship.

Here's a Win 70 extractor for comparison with guide showing no bevel.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Here's a couple of photos showing proper case head fit and capture in a Mauser bolt face and extractor. The half circumference rim created by the rebated bolt face along with the bolster extension of the opposing lug provides consistent engagement of the case rim into the extractor claw.

View attachment 569923


View attachment 569924

This must be 8mm?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Another couple of photos showing two types of extractors. One type, some call the original M98 type, has an undercut guide channel in the bolt head into which a beveled guide on the extractor slides. Some other Mausers and various other CRF type designs like the M70 do not have the undercut guide channel in the bolt head nor the matching beveled guide on the extractor. I don't know if there could be a mismatch between bolt and extractor guide on the problem bolt that could cause an extraction problem or if the guide was modified on the extractor? I know that some attempt to modify original 98 type bolts and extractors to allow for popping the extractor over the case rim so that a round could be single loaded directly into the chamber without having to pick it up out of the magazine... creating a type of push feed chambering. If your bolt head extractor guide groove is undercut and the guide on the extractor does not have a matching bevel, then either that modification was attempted or the extractor does not match the bolt. ??

Just thinking out loud here, but might be worth a look see.

This photo shows the bevel on the extractor guide and undercut channel (dotted line) on a Mauser type 98 bolt - I simply left the extractor on the bolt and pried it open a little with a small screw driver to show the relationship.

View attachment 569980


Here's a Win 70 extractor for comparison with guide showing no bevel.

View attachment 569983

Interesting. I never noticed the beveled guide or bolt groove. My Mauser has significant play between the groove and the guide on the extractor. This allows for snap over on cartridge dropped in the chamber. When the bolt is closed, the case rim pushes back against the face of the claw which pushes the guide back so the groove is not catching the bevel on guide. This allows the freed claw to be pushed outward and snap over on the rim of a shell dropped in the chamber. When the bolt is opened and pulled back, the claw slips forward and beveled guide is locked into the beveled groove.

Extractor pushed back when cartridge is dropped in chamber

Extractor pulled forward when bolt is opened, locking claw guide in beveled groove..

Paul Mauser was indeed a genius. While snap over may not be important for typical hunting, it certainly was important for a soldier with an empty rifle in the middle of a firefight who needed to fire a round quickly. Or dangerous game hunters who squander the first four or five rounds and need another round in the chamber in time to avoid becoming a steaming pile of ground meat.

 

[rdog]

Interesting. I never noticed the beveled guide or bolt groove. My Mauser has significant play between the groove and the guide on the extractor. This allows for snap over on cartridge dropped in the chamber. When the bolt is closed, the case rim pushes back against the face of the claw which pushes the guide back so the groove is not catching the bevel on guide. This allows the freed claw to be pushed outward and snap over on the rim of a shell dropped in the chamber. When the bolt is opened and pulled back, the claw slips forward and beveled guide is locked into the beveled groove.

Extractor pushed back when cartridge is dropped in chamber
View attachment 569997
Extractor pulled forward when bolt is opened, locking claw guide in beveled groove..
View attachment 569998
Paul Mauser was indeed a genius. While snap over may not be important for typical hunting, it certainly was important for a soldier with an empty rifle in the middle of a firefight who needed to fire a round quickly. Or dangerous game hunters who squander the first four or five rounds and need another round in the chamber in time to avoid becoming a steaming pile of ground meat.

Great info thank you

 

[fourfive8]

Interesting. I never noticed the beveled guide or bolt groove. My Mauser has significant play between the groove and the guide on the extractor. This allows for snap over on cartridge dropped in the chamber. When the bolt is closed, the case rim pushes back against the face of the claw which pushes the guide back so the groove is not catching the bevel on guide. This allows the freed claw to be pushed outward and snap over on the rim of a shell dropped in the chamber. When the bolt is opened and pulled back, the claw slips forward and beveled guide is locked into the beveled groove.

Extractor pushed back when cartridge is dropped in chamber
View attachment 569997
Extractor pulled forward when bolt is opened, locking claw guide in beveled groove..
View attachment 569998
Paul Mauser was indeed a genius. While snap over may not be important for typical hunting, it certainly was important for a soldier with an empty rifle in the middle of a firefight who needed to fire a round quickly. Or dangerous game hunters who squander the first four or five rounds and need another round in the chamber in time to avoid becoming a steaming pile of ground meat.

Yes. That is a good description of the theory of operation of the beveled undercut extractor guide. And most parts in well designed mechanicals need some clearance and play to continue to operate in dirty, gritty field conditions. It is the trueness of fit once parts come into design battery that is critical