Reloading theory question: .458 Lott

[Forrest Halley]

I am searching for a ball powder to use in my .458 Lott pushing 500 grain bullets for practice. H335 and varget are on either side of it on the burn chart so why can't I use CFE223? What part of the bus am I missing here? There is no data on the .458 and CFE 223 it stops at .375 H&H and 200/235 grain bullets. I am interested in your insight.

 

[fourfive8]

Seriously, I don't think you are missing anything. The Lott has been out there for quite a while and is very popular but I too am at a loss as to why the big companies have kind of ignored it for testing/publishing reloading data. There are quite a few flash-in-the-pan cartridges out there with more data from a variety of labs. Why? Wish I knew because I too have had to really scrounge for Lott data to use in my Watts. I have no problem interpolating data for loads. But extrapolation is a lot more risky. Reduced loads of ball powder in large volume cases is one of those scenarios that some have theorized can cause SEEs. I understand the concept, have never experienced it and remain both cautious and skeptical. Sorry not much help.

Another angle for Lott low vel, low pressure ammo would be to use 45-110 data. That involves gas checked or paper patched lead bullets (IMO for best results) and reduced charges of something like 5744. The Lott and 45-110 are nearly identical for internal ballistic and reloading purposes. The low power loads don't have to be simply berm blasting trigger time loads either. They can be very accurate if the load is constructed properly. Lyman does show several smokeless loads for the 45-110.

Here's a 5 shot, 50 yard target I shot off the bench just for the heck of it one day a few years ago as my nephew was visiting and wanted to shoot the "Sharps". This is a load of about 34 gr 5744 with low density Dacron filler under a 440 gr Mountain Molds gas checked bullet of soft 10-12 BHN alloy, lubed with soft BP type lube and sized to .459". The rifle was a C Sharps from when they were using Badger barrels... 1998-2002 ish- can't remember the exact year I ordered it from them. Sights are C Sharps aperture rear and globe front. No fly in this ointment!

Just a thought for the Lott. hah

 

[USMA84DAB]

Any Shot You Want lists: H-4895, IMR-3031, IMR-4064, RL-7, RL-12, & WW748. 26" barrel and 465 grain bullets.

 

[postoak]

I read somewhere that you could substitute like charges of BL-C(2) for that powder and the burn rate chart I have shows those two next to each other on the list. In fact, H335 is far way from it:

 

[Forrest Halley]

Thanks All. I have 8# of 748 coming. I'm not looking for reduced loads. I'm looking for easy metering for quick generation of ammunition to practice. I think I will stick with extruded powder for hunting. The Lott is what I use to shake things up. It's no fun if it doesn't recoil. I have a rifle for literally every application I can encounter. At this point, if I need a lighter rifle, I will gladly exercise one. I even have a .22 that can stretch to ballistic exhaustion, but that's just for fun.

 

[dchamp]

I think CFE223 would be an excellent powder for the .458 Lott. I was trying it with 500gr North Forks and it was really looking promising but then North Fork closed its doors so I stopped and haven't got back to it. I started at 77.5gr's (2000fps) - 83gr's (2154fps) with a 22- 3/4" barrel.

 

[sestoppelman]

I read somewhere that you could substitute like charges of BL-C(2) for that powder and the burn rate chart I have shows those two next to each other on the list. In fact, H335 is far way from it:

I have never seen a rate chart show those two powders anywhere near each other. What chart was it? H335 is faster than Bl-C-2.

 

[Forrest Halley]

I think CFE223 would be an excellent powder for the .458 Lott. I was trying it with 500gr North Forks and it was really looking promising but then North Fork closed its doors so I stopped and haven't got back to it. I started at 77.5gr's (2000fps) - 83gr's (2154fps) with a 22- 3/4" barrel.

I think you're right. It's literally two notches under the 748. I just could not find it for a decent price. How much do you think it erases copper fouling?

 

[postoak]

I have never seen a rate chart show those two powders anywhere near each other. What chart was it? H335 is faster than Bl-C-2.

It's from another board so I can't tell you or link to it. It lists from 1 to 150 going from slow to fast.

82 H335
88 H4895

101 Varget
102 IMR4320
103 Win 748
104 BL-C(2)
105 CFE 223
106 Lever Revolution
107 H380

 

[fourfive8]

https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/burnratecolor.pdf

 

[dchamp]

I think you're right. It's literally two notches under the 748. I just could not find it for a decent price. How much do you think it erases copper fouling?

Can't say about its copper erasing ability as I haven't pay any attention to it. I use it in the 9.3x62 and the 8x57 too and they all clean up easily.

 

[sestoppelman]

It's from another board so I can't tell you or link to it. It lists from 1 to 150 going from slow to fast.

82 H335
88 H4895

101 Varget
102 IMR4320
103 Win 748
104 BL-C(2)
105 CFE 223
106 Lever Revolution
107 H380

Nowhere near each other on this chart, about normal.

 

[postoak]

Sorry, I meant 1 is fastest and 150 is slowest. So CFE223 is bracketed by BL-C(2) (faster) and Lever Rolution (slower).

 

[Forrest Halley]

Well a guy at Hornady was intrigued with my idea when I proposed it to him this morning...Copper fouling removal the only advantage he saw. Hodgdon doesn't have a barrel for .458 Lott and got really quiet after that didn't want to talk about burn rates. I didn't bother calling Sierra or Speer since they don't make heavy bullets for .458.

 

[CoElkHunter]

2016 Hornady manual for Lott 500gr DGS/DGX using W748: 72.9gr (1900fps) to max 86.8gr (2250fps). That’s what I’m going to use in a medium load, but probably have to back off a bit when using the Barnes TSX?

 

[Deleted member 13924]

Unfortunately I have no experience with your overseas powders, only our locally produced South African powders, but if you had some of them I could give you plenty of loads from 350gr bullets up to 550gr.
My every day carry load for when Im out in the bush bumping into elles, buff and lions is 70gr of S335, under a 550gr Dzombo monolithic solid.
This load gives me 2100f/s and 1inch groups at 40m (thats open sights, shooting freehand), which is more then adiquate for what I need. (I use my Lott for a charge stopper, not long range hunting)
The 550gr Dzombo gives increadible penetration, even on elles.
I changed my front sight yesterday, from an 8mm fibre optic to a 9mm fibre optic, and had to bench it to check everything was still where it needs to be. Rifle still shoots beautifully, but all I can say is... Ouch!

HB

 

[Backyardsniper]

I'm gonna bring this post back for a bit. I did some testing today with CFE 223 in my 458 Lott. I started at 77gr and worked up to 86 in my rifle. My chronograph is not the most reliable but the velocity curve was steady moving up in 1 grain increments and I didn't run into any pressure. I hit around 2060fps at 84gr. My chronograph battery then dies but I testes up to 86gr with no pressure issues and there seems to be still a tiny bit of space between the bullet and powder so not a compressed load. I run 79gr of varget usually with the 500gr woodleigh and hornady and they hit right at 2190fps. I also have great success with reloader 10 and the hornady 350 and the speer Hot core 350 at around 83gr8.
On a side note the CFE223 also works great in my 375 h&h

 

[Luvthunt]

As my go to powder I used IMR 4320 for more then 25/30 years but recent issues made a change necessary. So I began and stumbled on Tac with excellent results. Am able to achieve 2250 FPS with less then max load and app 1/8 in of space from top of powder to loaded bullet base. The non compressed d should eliminate balling. I am 3 grains under max.
If interested call Ramshot in Mt. for max load data on the 458 Lott 500 gr

 

[AZDAVE]

AA2230 works like a charm in my 458WM so it should work fine in your lott

 

[Ajax2003]

As my go to powder I used IMR 4320 for more then 25/30 years but recent issues made a change necessary. So I began and stumbled on Tac with excellent results. Am able to achieve 2250 FPS with less then max load and app 1/8 in of space from top of powder to loaded bullet base. The non compressed d should eliminate balling. I am 3 grains under max.
If interested call Ramshot in Mt. for max load data on the 458 Lott 500 gr

Hey luvthunt what charge were you using with TAC on 500gr Tsx