Reinforcing stock wrist - anyone done this?

[Grumpy gumpy]

My forster bit set is not high quality. I will go to specialty tool shop and pick up a couple of good quality bits tomorrow.

Presumably I drill in from both sides and meet in the middle as opposed to drilling through from one sid

I drill through with a small drill bit to ensure I’ve got it set up in my jig properly. then drill through with the correct size for the rod of the crossbolt ( and chisel it square for mine) I then push the rod in to the stock and fit the head screws to it and tighten them so they pull up to the wood, then I mark around the outside with a fine sharpie. Then disassemble it all, this gives a circle to drill into with the forstner bit. The heads on mine are proud of the stock wood when screwed down tight they stick out a bit, I file them to suit the curve of the stock. Then I disassemble it all, marking on the back of the head which side and position, rust blue and reassemble it all and finish the stock off.
gumpy

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

I should add in here somewhere that this is how I do it, other people may do it differently than me, their way may work for them just as mine works for me. I will listen to how others do things as I may learn something, just as long as they understand that I may choose to ignore them
gumpy

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I should add in here somewhere that this is how I do it, other people may do it differently than me, their way may work for them just as mine works for me. I will listen to how others do things as I may learn something, just as long as they understand that I may choose to ignore them
gumpy

Thanks. My crossbolts are prefinished with decorative heads. Potterfield won't sell his Midway stuff to me so I had to find another way to finish crossbolts. The rifle already has Model 70 Safari Express sights and Model 70 style 3-postion safety so may as well complete the clone picture and use Winchester Express crossbolts.

I have the extra long 3/16" drill I could use as a pilot to punch through the stock, but I was concerned it might wander. Alternatively, if drilling in from each side, I can be assured the forster bit will be centered and won't wander over an open hole. Just occurred to me I can measure pilot drill locations from the back edge of fore end cap and top edge of stock to ensure they are in the same spot. If the stock is square to the fence, the two pilot holes should meet in the center or very closely aligned.

The head of the crossbolt measures 35/64. If I can't find a forster bit that size, 9/16" will suffice. The sleeve is 3/8" and threaded full length. I will cut it off at ~ 9/32 to make threaded female caps for both ends and connect with 1/4" fine thread rod cut to length as needed. I have two feet of threaded rod to play with so plenty of material for trial and error.

 

[AZDAVE]

I have used devcon plasticsteel for jobs like this. The threaded rod REALLY helps make sure the whole endeavor setup with the best adhesion. You might want to just run it through a die and put some threads on that.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I have used devcon plasticsteel for jobs like this. The threaded rod REALLY helps make sure the whole endeavor setup with the best adhesion. You might want to just run it through a die and put some threads on that.

Thanks. Rod is stainless so I suspect at 3/16" it would twist off before threading with a die, but I have lots of rod and dies so I can give it a shot. In any event, I had planned on scoring it with cutting disk on my Dremel tool to rough it up. Also to cut a channel for air and glue to escape when I push the rod in.

 

[rookhawk]

I recently picked up a very nice used stock for my standard 98 Mauser 404 Jeffery. It's a beautiful piece of wood with very nice checkering. Required some minor modification to the Brno vz.24 action before it would fit this apparently commercial stock. In particular, this stock is much thinner through the tang and grip. I cut down the tang screw and shaved a bit of metal from the top of the magazine box to make the tangs pull together. I also had to reform the Timney trigger's shoe to make it clear the trigger guard. Eventually everything fit together fine ... but just barely (almost ran out of thread on the tang screw).

So, it's now ready for crossbolts. Curiously, this stock must have been cut for a heavy hitter as the barrel channel indicates it formerly held something that was thick and tapered (not a varmint or target bull barrel without taper). Also, it only had one sling swivel at the butt, indicating a DGR style barrel band was formerly used. But no crossbolts? Odd. I am building a crossbolt drilling jig to set up on my Shopsmith. Don't foresee any issues.

But I'm thinking crossbolts won't be enough. I have a similarly thin-wristed commercial Mauser stock that broke there. Not enough meat left in the wrist. Sure makes for a nice looking elegent rifle that grips very well, even for my size L-XL mitts. But I'm concerned. I don't want to put the time, effort, and money into making this very nice stock fit my action and then have to throw it away when it breaks. So I'm thinking I will need to add reinforcement to the wrist. I have seen Potterfield's video and he makes it look easy. I'm sure it is not! He uses 1/4" threaded rod but I am concerned that will require too much wood removed from such a thin wrist. Instead I bought a long-shaft 3/16" drill and some stainless rod (smooth not threaded). Threaded rod might provide better grip with epoxy but I'm not able to find any in 3/16" locally. Also, thinner threaded rod might be weaker?

So, I'm throwing this out for advice or tips from anyone who may have tackled this. Any thoughts?
View attachment 597078
PS: Note the unusual concave recoil pad. Not collapsed. It's made that way by Pachmayer. I've never seen another one like it. Perhaps for trap shotguns?

If you’re going to use that Stainless rod, you need to chuck it into a lathe and put ribs in it (or thread it) so the epoxy can set up and prevent movement.

As to whether you need to do it, that wrist has plenty of size for any reasonable magnum caliber IF the grain is following the grip contour. The odds of you snapping the wrist are really low. The odds of you cracking the stock at the top tang are the most likely. I recommend you put a metal sleeve in the rear tang screw hole and that you glass bed the back of the tang area to ensure your recoil distributes stress evenly. Also glass the front lug, that’s a very important spot. Crossbolts are decorative and traditional, but not as structurally critical as the items I wrote above.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

If you’re going to use that Stainless rod, you need to chuck it into a lathe and put ribs in it (or thread it) so the epoxy can set up and prevent movement.

As to whether you need to do it, that wrist has plenty of size for any reasonable magnum caliber IF the grain is following the grip contour. The odds of you snapping the wrist are really low. The odds of you cracking the stock at the top tang are the most likely. I recommend you put a metal sleeve in the rear tang screw hole and that you glass bed the back of the tang area to ensure your recoil distributes stress evenly. Also glass the front lug, that’s a very important spot. Crossbolts are decorative and traditional, but not as structurally critical as the items I wrote above.

Thanks. I have already sleeved the rear action screw hole. Had to drive it out to drill for wrist rod. It will go back in as soon as the rod is glued. I always glass bed my rifles forward and aft. I can put the stainless wrist rod in the drill chuck on my Shopsmith and knurl it with cutting blade on my Dremel tool while both are turned on. Thanks for that idea. Trying to thread the skinny stainless rod would probably be an exercise in futility, but this should accomplish the same effect. I will, of course, cut out some relief in stock at end of tangs to avoid possible splitting. Standard practice, especially when stocking thumper guns.

The crossbolts are primarily to keep the stock from spreading during heavy recoil. Given that this stock was trimmed back in many areas, mostly for asthetics I think (e.g. the thin wrist and pistol grip), I decided adding crossbolts was pretty much imperative. The stock had already flexed enough in its previous life to slightly crack the small amount of wood remaining between the trigger slot and magazine box. Someone chiseled (with a dull screwdriver?) a significant amount of wood from the trigger slot, presumably for a custom trigger with safety. I have filled it all in with devcon (JB Weld) and a crossbolt through there should put a stop to any further spreading/cracking.

 

[C.W. Richter]

I've only done the micro cross-pinning/gorilla gluing in multiple points through the damaged area After the stock cracked (Steyr-Mannlicher S/T .375) but not in-half. The barrels are so heavy on those guns, shooters/slick actions but the barrel is literally torquing up/down while holding/firing! Most unbalanced rifle I've ever encountered, mainly due to the huge piece of cold-tooled metal that rests on top of the stock.

 

[rookhawk]

Thanks. I have already sleeved the rear action screw hole. Had to drive it out to drill for wrist rod. It will go back in as soon as the rod is glued. I always glass bed my rifles forward and aft. I can put the stainless wrist rod in the drill chuck on my Shopsmith and knurl it with cutting blade on my Dremel tool while both are turned on. Thanks for that idea. Trying to thread the skinny stainless rod would probably be an exercise in futility, but this should accomplish the same effect. I will, of course, cut out some relief in stock at end of tangs to avoid possible splitting. Standard practice, especially when stocking thumper guns.

The crossbolts are primarily to keep the stock from spreading during heavy recoil. Given that this stock was trimmed back in many areas, mostly for asthetics I think (e.g. the thin wrist and pistol grip), I decided adding crossbolts was pretty much imperative. The stock had already flexed enough in its previous life to slightly crack the small amount of wood remaining between the trigger slot and magazine box. Someone chiseled (with a dull screwdriver?) a significant amount of wood from the trigger slot, presumably for a custom trigger with safety. I have filled it all in with devcon (JB Weld) and a crossbolt through there should put a stop to any further spreading/cracking.

Since you have a basic lathe, I'd recommend when you turn that stainless bolt, try to use a rounded gouge so you don't have a sharp edge anywhere that could be a source of a break. Roughing up all of these metal parts and using acetone on them is advised so you get good adhesion to your epoxy or JB weld. While I've never done it, People have glass bedded the magazine well. That might be advisable if you think its think throughout that area.

I think you're going to be fine, overall. The stock doesn't look so slight that it is the weak link. All these precautions you are taking are belt-and-suspenders approaches. Put a good pad on the gun that will extend the duration of the recoil impulse so there aren't any sharp whacks on the stock, and never use a lead sled.

It's gonna be fine.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Since you have a basic lathe, I'd recommend when you turn that stainless bolt, try to use a rounded gouge so you don't have a sharp edge anywhere that could be a source of a break. Roughing up all of these metal parts and using acetone on them is advised so you get good adhesion to your epoxy or JB weld. While I've never done it, People have glass bedded the magazine well. That might be advisable if you think its think throughout that area.

I think you're going to be fine, overall. The stock doesn't look so slight that it is the weak link. All these precautions you are taking are belt-and-suspenders approaches. Put a good pad on the gun that will extend the duration of the recoil impulse so there aren't any sharp whacks on the stock, and never use a lead sled.

It's gonna be fine.

Again, thanks for advice and encouragement. Glassing in the box is always risky as it may be difficult to remove bottom metal even if it's waxed. Been there. This bottom metal fits very tight even without bedding. There is some empty space behind the trigger end of the box and I have thought about filling it. I'm thinking this stock originally carried a 375 action. Only had to widen it a bit for 416 Rem bottom metal. Longer cavity at rear makes me think the previous bottom metal was for longer cartridge? Not sure how much strength the box supplies so leaving it as is may be just fine.

Most of the thinning was done aft of the magazine. Perhaps the gunmaker made it for someone with small hands? It does look prettier but the added weight of more wood certainly would not have bothered me for a 404 Jeffery.

It has a good Pachmayer trap gun pad on it now. I may just leave it alone. Looks a little goofy on a DGR but has about the right firmness. Other pads (e.g. Limbsaver) are too soft and really don't mitigate hard recoil very well. There is a point of diminishing returns for softness in recoil pads. The concave shape does not inhibit my ability to mount quickly (as one would think) and it does seem to capture the butt nicely on my shoulder.

The previous guy(s) messed with the trigger cavity too much to leave it with just epoxy build up. Too risky. Even if a crack had not started, I would have been very nervous. Seeing that crack iced it: this stock had to have a crossbolt through there. And if I'm putting one aft, the gun would look goofy without one in front of magazine. Potential buyer would ask why just one crossbolt in back. I'd rather not discuss the crack or explain my remedy. Two crossbolts is as it should be. No questions.

I don't own a lead sled. Would be silly to use one if I did. This is a fifty to hundred yard rifle, not a sniper gun.

 

[roklok]

I reinforced my 375 Mauser wrist using a 3/8 inch grade 8 bolt with head cut off. I drilled from bottom of pistol grip forward , stopping just behind rear action screw. I then set it in epoxy. The hole was then covered with ebony pistol grip cap. I went with a hardened bolt because most threaded rod is soft and easily bent.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I reinforced my 375 Mauser wrist using a 3/8 inch grade 8 bolt with head cut off. I drilled from bottom of pistol grip forward , stopping just behind rear action screw. I then set it in epoxy. The hole was then covered with ebony pistol grip cap. I went with a hardened bolt because most threaded rod is soft and easily bent.

3/8" hardened bolt? You weren't taking any chances! . I thought about drilling from underneath the pistol grip cap, but then how to screw on the cap? The rod/bolt would be in the way.

 

[roklok]

I also put crossbolts in, same as what you have pictured, Winchester 70 bolts bought off Ebay. I specifically ordered a Forster bit to install them. If you have a drill press it is easy to place holes. Get a scrap of wood, drill a hole in it with press to ensure it is square, then install a straight nail in hole. Clamp this to your drill press table with nail pointing up, so drill bit tip and nail align. Then hold stock on tip of nail while you drill, this will ensure bit is aligned with off side of stock.

 

[roklok]

I epoxied the ebony grip cap on, so no need for screw in my case.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I also put crossbolts in, same as what you have pictured, Winchester 70 bolts bought off Ebay. I specifically ordered a Forster bit to install them. If you have a drill press it is easy to place holes. Get a scrap of wood, drill a hole in it with press to ensure it is square, then install a straight nail in hole. Clamp this to your drill press table with nail pointing up, so drill bit tip and nail align. Then hold stock on tip of nail while you drill, this will ensure bit is aligned with off side of stock.

What size forster bit? I couldn't find anything but 1/2" and 5/8" in town. I was able to find 9/16" brad tip bit. I will test it to see how messy it is. The head of crossbolt may just squeak into 1/2" hole. I do have one of those in forster.

 

[roklok]

I don't recall, would have to check when I get the chance. It was an odd size, I do remember that and I had to order it. I do believe Winchester had two different size crossbolts when I was looking for them. So not sure I had the same size you have. If they are close to half inch, you could chuck the crossbolts in a drill or lathe and reduce diameter, hit it with some cold blue, the cut edge would be beneath wood anyway and not visible.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I don't recall, would have to check when I get the chance. It was an odd size, I do remember that and I had to order it. I do believe Winchester had two different size crossbolts when I was looking for them. So not sure I had the same size you have. If they are close to half inch, you could chuck the crossbolts in a drill or lathe and reduce diameter, hit it with some cold blue, the cut edge would be beneath wood anyway and not visible.

The heads are slightly bigger than half inch. 9/16" holes are too big. I practiced making various holes in scrap wood. Half inch hole cut with forster bit can be opened to fit with tiny drum sander Dremel tool attachment. That works. I could also cut the heads down to half inch as you described. That would be easier but it won't leave much rim with 3/8" sleeves inside half inch head. Maybe enough. I'll have to think on it. Thanks.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I would rough up the rod with the grinder all over and make some shallow notches around the rod to help key in the glue. That is why they used thread bar- for the bonding strength. I have also seen where a guy used a carbon fibre fishing rod instead of threaded bar.

I'm not sure about carbon fishing rod. I've had two 9wt fly rods snap in the middle fighting sockeye salmon. The old style solid fiberglass trolling rods would probably be ideal. Those things were indestrictable! Just turn the segment in lathe or drill press to remove taper. Fiberglass would be lot easier than steel to trim and thin and just as strong.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I drill through with a small drill bit to ensure I’ve got it set up in my jig properly. then drill through with the correct size for the rod of the crossbolt ( and chisel it square for mine) I then push the rod in to the stock and fit the head screws to it and tighten them so they pull up to the wood, then I mark around the outside with a fine sharpie. Then disassemble it all, this gives a circle to drill into with the forstner bit. The heads on mine are proud of the stock wood when screwed down tight they stick out a bit, I file them to suit the curve of the stock. Then I disassemble it all, marking on the back of the head which side and position, rust blue and reassemble it all and finish the stock off.
gumpy

It's the way Potterfield does it too. Unfortunately, I don't have the equipment to make my own crossbolt heads and Potterfield's Midway simply will not deal with Canadian customers ... even indirectly. These Winchester bolts from eBay will do the job and they don't look too bad either. And I can use the equipment I have.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

It's the way Potterfield does it too. Unfortunately, I don't have the equipment to make my own crossbolt heads and Potterfield's Midway simply will not deal with Canadian customers ... even indirectly. These Winchester bolts from eBay will do the job and they don't look too bad either. And I can use the equipment I have.

I’ve not seen Potterfields video, the man irritates me, even if he is good as a smith. Weirdly I make my own because it’s hard( and expensive) to get them here. The ones you have will look good and more importantly do the job
gumpy