Reality Check, Sad News

[ActionBob]

True, but Tanzania isn't one of them. When looking for Moz buff hunts, 8350 would be considered a good price, but i have yet to find a hunt in Africa for buff, wild or not as wild, that would end at 8350 euro. Moz has its own gouging going on with increased prices for licenses and trophy fees. Not to mention the little crap that ticks people off like hiring a game scout to tag a long( like in Zim), transfers etc. No price is all inclusive as there are always other things that come up. My point is that Tanzania has been on one side of a spectrum for the African hunting industry. Tanzania caters to the ultra rich or those with much more expendable money than I or the averages like me. They pretty much have not made any accommodations to average working class Americans as plains game hunts have been absolutely ridiculous for prices as well( which is what most people start off with in Africa). South Africa on the other hand has seen a market with working class Americans and has gone with it. South Africa caters to everybody but by far has the most affordable hunts and so working class hunters go where the deals are. South Africa has everything from low fence, no fence and high fence. They also work with people more to make the hunt user friendly and they go out of their way to give a person the best hunting trophy and experience with out adding on multiple fees.

Well of course you are correct in most of what you say... But I think you missed a couple big points;

1. It is much easier and cheaper to do business in RSA. There are many commercial airports, freeways, better roads all around... Hell there ARE roads! And bridges even...
2. No not every average Joe is "entitled" to go do expensive hunts.

Even if a Tanzania hunt licence was within your reach financially (it probably is, at least a limited one)... Could you afford a $8000 charter flight to get to camp? And as for the day fees... do you honestly expect a Safari operator to be able to keep you fed, housed and entertained out in the middle of the Selous for South African rates? Do you know what you are asking?

Again, I have never been there but have been to more easily accessed areas in wild places... But there are no gas stations, no KFC, no repair shops, no super market. And from what I understand, it is actually against the law for humans to inhabit those areas of Tanzania during the off season (6 or 7 months). And likely very foolish to be there in the rainy season. This is why those areas have been the hunting Meca's they have been. Everything has to be brought in and taken back out, from what I am told. Including the camps, that is why they use tents. And why it is so expensive.

And again, what gives every working class American the right? This is what is happening in America..... People expect to be given things, they feel entitled... BS, work for it.. Not just hard but also smart, invest for it, then re-invest, sacrifice for it. That is what our Constitutional Guarantees are intended to give us... The equal opportunity to pursue happyness, prosperity or whatever it is that you legally wish to... There are NO guarantees of attaining these things.... That's how many of us on this board have been able to do the hunts and things we have done.

Enjoy hunting South Africa, it sounds like it has everything you want... So why come on here and expect unrealistic things and run down Tanzania? You are just not comparing apples to apples. Kind of like comparing a Minnesota whitetail hunt sitting in a tree stand 1/4 mile off the road VS. flying in to a remote Yukon camp and then going the rest of the way packing in on horseback for Stone Sheep... They are just not the same thing and require vastly different logistics, thus costs.

I can't argue about the crooked politicians, but South Africa certainly has them as well.

 

[sierraone]

I think part of the reason you are seeing a decline in hunter numbers across North America for instance is the cost. In some areas its just getting to expensive for people, who may otherwise be interested, to take it up as a hobby.

Hi Dragan, I have said this before on another thread. I have been from the south all my life. Most hunters here have no intention of going to Africa. It's not even a thought. I am speaking of all of Africa not just a country like Tanzania. The average Arkansas hunter is completely happy to take a 8-point buck, a few green heads and catch a five pound bass. Not likely he would know where Tanzania is. That's the way it has been my whole life. Before I joined this site, I probably personally knew of 3 or 4 hunters that had been to Africa. Of course I saw many every year when I went to DSC, but did not know them. Now I obviously know many, particularly in Texas and here in Florida. The average deer hunter in the deep south is never going to be concerned by problems the African hunting countries have that we talk about seemingly everyday on this forum. I have been here five years and based on the number of threads that appear more and more often the problems are only multiplying. It must be said though that every new problem that presents itself here does not affect all of us on this forum.

 

[cmnhunt]

Well of course you are correct in most of what you say... But I think you missed a couple big points;

1. It is much easier and cheaper to do business in RSA. There are many commercial airports, freeways, better roads all around... Hell there ARE roads! And bridges even...
2. No not every average Joe is "entitled" to go do expensive hunts.

Even if a Tanzania hunt licence was within your reach financially (it probably is, at least a limited one)... Could you afford a $8000 charter flight to get to camp? And as for the day fees... do you honestly expect a Safari operator to be able to keep you fed, housed and entertained out in the middle of the Selous for South African rates? Do you know what you are asking?

Again, I have never been there but have been to more easily accessed areas in wild places... But there are no gas stations, no KFC, no repair shops, no super market. And from what I understand, it is actually against the law for humans to inhabit those areas of Tanzania during the off season (6 or 7 months). And likely very foolish to be there in the rainy season. This is why those areas have been the hunting Meca's they have been. Everything has to be brought in and taken back out, from what I am told. Including the camps, that is why they use tents. And why it is so expensive.

And again, what gives every working class American the right? This is what is happening in America..... People expect to be given things, they feel entitled... BS, work for it.. Not just hard but also smart, invest for it, then re-invest, sacrifice for it. That is what our Constitutional Guarantees are intended to give us... The equal opportunity to pursue happyness, prosperity or whatever it is that you legally wish to... There are NO guarantees of attaining these things.... That's how many of us on this board have been able to do the hunts and things we have done.

Enjoy hunting South Africa, it sounds like it has everything you want... So why come on here and expect unrealistic things and run down Tanzania? You are just not comparing apples to apples. Kind of like comparing a Minnesota whitetail hunt sitting in a tree stand 1/4 mile off the road VS. flying in to a remote Yukon camp and then going the rest of the way packing in on horseback for Stone Sheep... They are just not the same thing and require vastly different logistics, thus costs.

I can't argue about the crooked politicians, but South Africa certainly has them as well.

I truly don't think you understand a thing I just said. Where did I even say that every American is entitled to hunting in Tanzania? Likewise, where does it say that every one has to book in Tanzania? Look, my point is you make choices. If you want to charge a lot of money for a hunt than so be it. I don't care. This crap about you have to Charge a ton for a beer or whatever you bring to the bush "and it is an extra touch of class" is bogus. When I fly to SA, I buy a ticket and I can pay 1400 or I can buy one for 9500. You still arrive at the same time and at the same place. Likewise, I have seen hunts for 16000 in Tanzania with 500 road transfers and I have seen $100000 plus hunts that require multiple transfers by plane. I have hunted all over Alaska in places that are more wild than Africa and you can hire pilots that charge a lot or a little and will get you to the same place.
Again, my point is, I'm not going to feel sorry for people that have priced themselves out of the market and then look around and say why won't anyone book with us. There are only so many rich hunters going around, and most do the hunt once or twice and move on. The outfitters in the US are doing the same thing with sheep and mule deer. They make a name for themselves, get clients, raise prices over and over, quality goes down, and than no one books with them. They end up with a consultant at the end of the year with 1/2 price hunts. Go figure.

 

[enysse]

The hunter that will buy a Tanzania safari are a limited market versus a South Africa safari. There are always fluctuation in the market due to prices and quality. Then you throw the government into the equation they have to screw things up even more with regulations and taxes. No doubt things are changing in Africa! Anything that is remote and wild is going to cost more money.

 

[BenKK]

What are the round trip flight distances that cost US$8000?

 

[cmnhunt]

What are the round trip flight distances that cost US$8000?

I think he meant for charter price. Which the highest I have seen was in the $5000 price range which is still a joke.

 

[MartyJ]

The hard reality is that slowly but surely Africa is going to fade into history books.
Though Zimbabwe is trying to get the old landowners back, it will take a very long time before things return to what it was (if ever).
South Africa is determined to destroy itself. With their parliament voting to confiscate white owned farms/property, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to see what the outcome will be.
It is a sad state of affairs when corruption overrides intelligence and conservation is dictated by emotion and the ballot box (grizzly hunting in British Columbia)
Ron White said it "You can't fix stupid".

Sorry, little brain fart. I ment Cape Town running out of water.

 

[jeff]

Thanks Pieter for the original post, once again wildlife loses at the hand of the greedy and uninformed and politically correct!

 

[BenKK]

I think he meant for charter price. Which the highest I have seen was in the $5000 price range which is still a joke.

Just wondering what the distances are so I can compare them to charters here.

 

[cmnhunt]

Just wondering what the distances are so I can compare them to charters here.

So I looked at a Tanzania trip that had a road transfer round trip at 750$ us. It was 3.5 hours. Now what the roads are like, got me. I know in Namibia it was two hours and went from paved to pure sand roads that were fun. I have priced charters in Zambia for 1200-1400$ us and Mozambique from 2000-4000$ us. Burkina Faso looks like a lot of road transfers but are included in the trip. Distance for all charters from 150 to 600km. Now I have never been to Zambia but they say the distance from Lusaka to Kafue park is 387km. I'm not going to say this is set in stone, it's just what I have been quoted or looked up.