Range issues

[Flbt]

One of the reasons I suggested 4h is more kids
But also some 4h people will donate to a 4h club more so
I let the 4h people use my range when it was active here
I would not just open up for any club
Might be the same is possible

Also I have heard of some sheriffs letting there range be used by 4h
Because the 4h Club is part of the county organization

 

[375Ruger416]

By the way, if your grandson is in fact kicked out of the association, it should come in writing from the board and not from some petty tyrant who thinks it’s “her range“.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I would like to hear their side of how this went down personally….

I would also like to hear what their perception is. But so far no response. Daddy just felt obligated to stand up for his little girl. The coach who was sitting at the bench with my grandson never said anything while he was shooting except stop slapping the trigger. And I also watched that boy fire every shot. If he'd done anything unsafe I'd have been all over him about it. The curious thing is if this gal actually did see him do something unsafe, why wouldn't she intervene immediately rather than wait until he'd finished shooting all his targets to say something? Why didn't she come and talk to me about it if the issue warranted threatening him with expulsion? Also, we hung around for at least ten minutes after the last round. If she felt I had abused her, why didn't she say something then?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

One of the reasons I suggested 4h is more kids
But also some 4h people will donate to a 4h club more so
I let the 4h people use my range when it was active here
I would not just open up for any club
Might be the same is possible

Also I have heard of some sheriffs letting there range be used by 4h
Because the 4h Club is part of the county organization

Ranges here are highly regulated. Unfortunately, it's more complicated.

Law enforcement uses the same facility. They don't have their own range.

 

[cajunchefray]

This past year my eleven year-old grandson decided to try the juniors shooting club associated with my rifle range. The local Association actually has two ranges: one near town that I knew had a very checkered history, and a more primitive range rented on a property about 35 minutes away. I opted to be a member at the more remote range and avoid the local drama. But the juniors shoot at the local range. Every week it was a veritable Chinese fire drill with range being opened late, very disorganized, and little kids rarely getting home before 9:00 p.m. on a school night. But my grandson was really enjoying it and making lots of friends so what the hell. Eventually I did suggest they start earlier and the guy in charge literally blew up. "Nobody respects us poor volunteers, all we get is criticism, blah, blah, blah." I was quite shocked at his reaction. Then last month grandson was finally able to shoot my .22 instead of the club junk. I knew from past experience he is a very good shot with that rifle. However, his targets at the range have not been what he's capable of. Due to a snowstorm earlier in the day only a couple of kids showed up so I was able to watch him shoot through the window in the door to firing room. The problem was obvious. After he was on the gun he kept his trigger finger up on the side of the stock above the trigger guard and then jumped on the trigger to fire. When he was done I coached him to get on the trigger as soon as his cheek was on the gun and on target. Then squeeze the trigger. Second target and this time he does put his finger inside the trigger guard but still jumping on it to fire. A coach sat down next to him and I could see him demonstrating with his finger to not slap the trigger. So grandson proceeds to follow instructions. He finishes first and as he's leaving the room he briefly disappears out of sight. When he does come through the door, he goes straight to the back and puts his head in his hands. I wait for the targets to come in and he has done very well (except two extra flyers from the girl shooting at the target next to him). When I take the target to him I find he is sobbing. What happened? The head honcho's daughter, who is a self appointed safety officer, stopped him on the way off the firing line and said she would kick him out of the club if he continued to use that shooting technique. That didn't sound right. Must have been something else. I went to the firing room where she and the coach were cleaning up. Asked what she said and she confirmed it. "But if the gun is pointed down range and he's on the gun, his finger should be on the trigger so he can squeeze and fire, right?" Her response: "Not on my range." I turned to the coach: "You were coaching him to stop slapping the trigger, right?" He said "Of course." "So we were both coaching him to shoot the same way we shoot but you're telling him something different? I don't shoot targets that way and I don't believe you do either." She said nothing. I then assured my grandson that it was all a "misunderstanding." He did nothing wrong. Then the next week we were met in the parking lot by the head honcho father who informed us the juniors club was "not in your grandson's best interest" and ordered us to leave. Claimed I "cornered" his daughter which was BS. I said we should ask the coach what happened. He blocked me from going into the range building and at one point even grabbed me. He really scared my grandson. Very disturbing.

So my question is ... who was wrong? Is there something I don't know about range etiquette? I'm not a range nut (only joined last year) so maybe there's some different way of shooting at paper targets?

These events are so unfortunate for your grandson.
I'm so lucky that my primary range officers, learning to shoot at 11 years old, were my grandfather and my father. Small farm, a .22 rifle and a 20 gauge shotgun. Gun safety first, then technique in shooting.
Through my teenage years, many times to practice and hunt on the farm under my father's watchful safety eyes.

In college, out of town, going to "public ranges" I learned that some "range officers" suck, and some are great folks.

I still very much prefer shooting on private property.

The free and safe use of firearms in a private setting is the essence of the 2nd Amendment.

Hopefully, you can find, and/or rent some private land, and have your grandson invite his friends, that they may enjoy learning to be proficient with firearms in a safe and supervised environment.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

By the way, if your grandson is in fact kicked out of the association, it should come in writing from the board and not from some petty tyrant who thinks it’s “her range“.

That was the point of my letter/email. No response. So is my grandson still a member? I don't know but I'm not going out there to push the issue. I have no desire to get involved in any more violence at a rifle range! In any event, I'm not sure I could convince my grandson it is safe to return. He was pretty shook up.

Another option is to forward the letter to the Provincial Firearms Safety Officer. I'm sure that would get a response. My experience with them at the trap/skeet range is they look for any pimples to pick, real or not. But I think that would only cause more hostility. Perhaps Parker and I will have to be satisfied with using the association's country range during the week when no one is there ... as long as I'm still a member ... and as far as I know I am. Better than shooting at the garbage dump. On the other hand, if I don't try to do something, and this crazy jerk decides to go after the wrong person, the results could easily be catastrophic. A gun range is no place for a bully who likes to get physical.

 

[Flbt]

I would also like to hear what their perception is. But so far no response. Daddy just felt obligated to stand up for his little girl. The coach who was sitting at the bench with my grandson never said anything while he was shooting except stop slapping the trigger. And I also watched that boy fire every shot. If he'd done anything unsafe I'd have been all over him about it. The curious thing is if this gal actually did see him do something unsafe, why wouldn't she intervene immediately rather than wait until he'd finished shooting all his targets to say something? Why didn't she come and talk to me about it if the issue warranted threatening him with expulsion? Also, we hung around for at least ten minutes after the last round. If she felt I had abused her, why didn't she say something then?

One thing here why did she not do this or that
Or come to me.
Is this a child we’re talking about 15 or under
is she closer to your grandson age?
a child might not have the confidence to talk to a adult.
She might not have the skills to explain the why of it.
Even if she is a older teen has she had any other possion sod any type of power?
And you are all ways going to have family favoritism’s.


But that siad it one of the hang ups I had with my kids they were not as asirtive especially standing up for themselves as I was
My daughter was way more timid.
I was always outspoken even if it cause problems
I have all ways had a dammed the consequences I will deal with it.
She had to get extremely mad to do that

 

[Bandera]

Does this range have a board on directors? If so as a member you can request a meeting with the board.
If this range ruled by the owner. You can still request a meeting.

In either case:
The girls father should have no say in any of this it hearsay on his part.
He can be there as support for his daughter assuming she is a minor.
Cornered can be very tricky. Was she standing in a corner when you approached?
Did you block the exit? If no then it is a conversation that made her uncomfortable.
Not grounds for dismissal.
However the dad laying hands on you is grounds for dismissal from a club. Every club that I know of, has a clause against any kind of physical and verbal altercation in their membership rules.

So again a conversation with the higher ups May help to clear up this misunderstanding.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

One thing here why did she not do this or that
Or come to me.
Is this a child we’re talking about 15 or under
is she closer to your grandson age?
a child might not have the confidence to talk to a adult.
She might not have the skills to explain the why of it.
Even if she is a older teen has she had any other possion sod any type of power?
And you are all ways going to have family favoritism’s.


But that siad it one of the hang ups I had with my kids they were not as asirtive especially standing up for themselves as I was
My daughter was way more timid.
I was always outspoken even if it cause problems
I have all ways had a dammed the consequences I will deal with it.
She had to get extremely mad to do that

Sorry, I should have made that clearer. The gal is a young woman, probably early twenties. Parker is more like his grandma than either his mom or papa. Not very assertive. Painfully polite I would say. Very sensitive. But he's doing something right. That kid has three girlfriends competing for him. At his age I only had eyes for Labrador retreivers and cheap shotgun shells.

 

[375Ruger416]

Range politics always suck. Be more polite than you think you should have to, and forgive things you think you shouldn’t need to.

There are too few ranges here in Canada and they are buried in red tape. I think you made a good choice not forwarding it to the provincial CFO or safety officer. No good can come of it and it could lead to hard feelings.

The goal is to have a range everyone can enjoy including your grandson and this girl.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Does this range have a board on directors? If so as a member you can request a meeting with the board.
If this range ruled by the owner. You can still request a meeting.

In either case:
The girls father should have no say in any of this it hearsay on his part.
He can be there as support for his daughter assuming she is a minor.
Cornered can be very tricky. Was she standing in a corner when you approached?
Did you block the exit? If no then it is a conversation that made her uncomfortable.
Not grounds for dismissal.
However the dad laying hands on you is grounds for dismissal from a club. Every club that I know of, has a clause against any kind of physical and verbal altercation in their membership rules.

So again a conversation with the higher ups May help to clear up this misunderstanding.

No, not cornered. She was standing next an open door between the two rooms ... and her dad was on the other side!

Letter sent to board asking for status and discussion. No response.

 

[JimP]

Cornered can mean a number of things.

To my dad it was going out of his way to talk to someone who was difficult to track down, not backed into a corner where the person didn't have a escape route.

 

[WAB]

This past year my eleven year-old grandson decided to try the juniors shooting club associated with my rifle range. The local Association actually has two ranges: one near town that I knew had a very checkered history, and a more primitive range rented on a property about 35 minutes away. I opted to be a member at the more remote range and avoid the local drama. But the juniors shoot at the local range. Every week it was a veritable Chinese fire drill with range being opened late, very disorganized, and little kids rarely getting home before 9:00 p.m. on a school night. But my grandson was really enjoying it and making lots of friends so what the hell. Eventually I did suggest they start earlier and the guy in charge literally blew up. "Nobody respects us poor volunteers, all we get is criticism, blah, blah, blah." I was quite shocked at his reaction. Then last month grandson was finally able to shoot my .22 instead of the club junk. I knew from past experience he is a very good shot with that rifle. However, his targets at the range have not been what he's capable of. Due to a snowstorm earlier in the day only a couple of kids showed up so I was able to watch him shoot through the window in the door to firing room. The problem was obvious. After he was on the gun he kept his trigger finger up on the side of the stock above the trigger guard and then jumped on the trigger to fire. When he was done I coached him to get on the trigger as soon as his cheek was on the gun and on target. Then squeeze the trigger. Second target and this time he does put his finger inside the trigger guard but still jumping on it to fire. A coach sat down next to him and I could see him demonstrating with his finger to not slap the trigger. So grandson proceeds to follow instructions. He finishes first and as he's leaving the room he briefly disappears out of sight. When he does come through the door, he goes straight to the back and puts his head in his hands. I wait for the targets to come in and he has done very well (except two extra flyers from the girl shooting at the target next to him). When I take the target to him I find he is sobbing. What happened? The head honcho's daughter, who is a self appointed safety officer, stopped him on the way off the firing line and said she would kick him out of the club if he continued to use that shooting technique. That didn't sound right. Must have been something else. I went to the firing room where she and the coach were cleaning up. Asked what she said and she confirmed it. "But if the gun is pointed down range and he's on the gun, his finger should be on the trigger so he can squeeze and fire, right?" Her response: "Not on my range." I turned to the coach: "You were coaching him to stop slapping the trigger, right?" He said "Of course." "So we were both coaching him to shoot the same way we shoot but you're telling him something different? I don't shoot targets that way and I don't believe you do either." She said nothing. I then assured my grandson that it was all a "misunderstanding." He did nothing wrong. Then the next week we were met in the parking lot by the head honcho father who informed us the juniors club was "not in your grandson's best interest" and ordered us to leave. Claimed I "cornered" his daughter which was BS. I said we should ask the coach what happened. He blocked me from going into the range building and at one point even grabbed me. He really scared my grandson. Very disturbing.

So my question is ... who was wrong? Is there something I don't know about range etiquette? I'm not a range nut (only joined last year) so maybe there's some different way of shooting at paper targets?

The only thing I could think of is that perhaps his finger was on the trigger before he was down on the gun? Nitpicking at best if the gun was pointed safely downrange.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The only thing I could think of is that perhaps his finger was on the trigger before he was down on the gun? Nitpicking at best if the gun was pointed safely downrange.

Parker is left-handed but right eye dominant so he is learning to shoot right-handed. The doorway I was watching through is on the shooters' right side. I could clearly see where his finger was when handling the gun. The issue was he was in fact too reserved in putting his finger on the trigger. The first round and the previous week too, he kept his finger laying against the stock until he jumped on the trigger to fire. Mega-flinch. No wonder he had been shooting so poorly. This is a kid who could repeatedly shoot an empty shotgun case off a stump at fifty feet ... if the case was laying down primer end facing him! The last time we were at the country range I duct taped a Canadian $1 coin on the target to see if he could hit it. He shoots and coin disappeared. For forty minutes we searched in the brush around the backstop but couldn't find it. "Well, that's too bad, Parker. You shot your first buck today but we lost it. Maybe you hit it in the guts." Next day his mom gets a call from the school principal. "Parker is telling kids he shot a buck yesterday. He's not old enough to hunt, is he?" (Only ten at that time). My daughter calls me and wants to know what the HELL am I doing with her boy. Deer season wasn't even open yet! Fortunayely, it's a Catholic school and those Italian guys are very big into hunting and guns. The principal got quite a laugh. Anyway, Parker had been shooting enough with Papa to know what he's doing with that .22. Someone just told those kids at the club something different. I guess just to be different? You guys seem to confirm it.

 

[Flbt]

Sorry, I should have made that clearer. The gal is a young woman, probably early twenties. Parker is more like his grandma than either his mom or papa. Not very assertive. Painfully polite I would say. Very sensitive. But he's doing something right. That kid has three girlfriends competing for him. At his age I only had eyes for Labrador retreivers and cheap shotgun shells.

Ok that was one of the things I was thinking of if she was close to his age . Pulling him out to get his attention.

Her being in her 20 stops any thing I was thinking. She should be able to defend any action she takes

 

[BRICKBURN]

As an RSO at one of our local ranges I educate people first.

What you are describing requires a discussion off the line in private, not a tantrum.

Our Board does provide us with the authority to "ask someone politely" to leave for the day. You have to be a true danger before I am going to kick you out. That's how we are trained.
Repeated infractions gain the wrath of the board and the offender will be banned.
The ranges also have video cameras on 24/7. Not much to argue with....

Hope you can get it sorted.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

As an RSO at one of our local ranges I educate people first.

What you are describing requires a discussion off the line in private, not a tantrum.

Our Board does provide us with the authority to "ask someone politely" to leave for the day. You have to be a true danger before I am going to kick you out. That's how we are trained.
Repeated infractions gain the wrath of the board and the offender will be banned.
The ranges also have video cameras on 24/7. Not much to argue with....

Hope you can get it sorted.

She was not a minor. I should have made that clearer. Though she is the guy's daughter, she is a grown woman in her early to mid twenties I would guess. Describing her as daddy's girl was metaphorical.

The issue was discussed with her quietly off line after everyone was done shooting. No tantrums that I know of. No loud voices when I discussed it with her. Father was a few feet away out the doorway and apparently oblivious to what was said. I kept it professional. Felt the issue was sorted out quickly and satisfactorily. She did not argue with us. I went to her because I was concerned Parker might have actually done something serious (she should have come to me!). I needed to get to the bottom of it. And seemed I did.

Yeah, I find it hard to believe the board sanctioned kicking my son out of the club. I've known people who had accidental discharges at the trap range and weren't permanently ejected. Still no letter in response or refund from the board. Very unprofessional. But like I said, I already knew from some of the guys at the trap club that this rifle club had serious drama issues in the past.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Sad news.

 

[Tam Dl]

There are different legal rules on recording, but increasingly you need video for everything. Or audio.

 

[mark-hunter]

So my question is ... who was wrong? Is there something I don't know about range etiquette? I'm not a range nut (only joined last year) so maybe there's some different way of shooting at paper targets?

Him. he was wrong.
If the rifle is pointed at target, and range is hot. And person on the rifle aims to target he can squeeze the trigger anyway he likes (or being coached to do).
But arguable people are everywhere, you can find them everywhere.
I dont see any common range safety rules being broken.


Just to get idea: how many kids are there in the club, and how many firing lines is there?

Sad to hear this, but probably good idea.

That was the point of my letter/email. No response. So is my grandson still a member? I don't know but I'm not going out there to push the issue. I have no desire to get involved in any more violence at a rifle range! In any event, I'm not sure I could convince my grandson it is safe to return. He was pretty shook up.