Range issues

[Ontario Hunter]

This past year my eleven year-old grandson decided to try the juniors shooting club associated with my rifle range. The local Association actually has two ranges: one near town that I knew had a very checkered history, and a more primitive range rented on a property about 35 minutes away. I opted to be a member at the more remote range and avoid the local drama. But the juniors shoot at the local range. Every week it was a veritable Chinese fire drill with range being opened late, very disorganized, and little kids rarely getting home before 9:00 p.m. on a school night. But my grandson was really enjoying it and making lots of friends so what the hell. Eventually I did suggest they start earlier and the guy in charge literally blew up. "Nobody respects us poor volunteers, all we get is criticism, blah, blah, blah." I was quite shocked at his reaction. Then last month grandson was finally able to shoot my .22 instead of the club junk. I knew from past experience he is a very good shot with that rifle. However, his targets at the range have not been what he's capable of. Due to a snowstorm earlier in the day only a couple of kids showed up so I was able to watch him shoot through the window in the door to firing room. The problem was obvious. After he was on the gun he kept his trigger finger up on the side of the stock above the trigger guard and then jumped on the trigger to fire. When he was done I coached him to get on the trigger as soon as his cheek was on the gun and on target. Then squeeze the trigger. Second target and this time he does put his finger inside the trigger guard but still jumping on it to fire. A coach sat down next to him and I could see him demonstrating with his finger to not slap the trigger. So grandson proceeds to follow instructions. He finishes first and as he's leaving the room he briefly disappears out of sight. When he does come through the door, he goes straight to the back and puts his head in his hands. I wait for the targets to come in and he has done very well (except two extra flyers from the girl shooting at the target next to him). When I take the target to him I find he is sobbing. What happened? The head honcho's daughter, who is a self appointed safety officer, stopped him on the way off the firing line and said she would kick him out of the club if he continued to use that shooting technique. That didn't sound right. Must have been something else. I went to the firing room where she and the coach were cleaning up. Asked what she said and she confirmed it. "But if the gun is pointed down range and he's on the gun, his finger should be on the trigger so he can squeeze and fire, right?" Her response: "Not on my range." I turned to the coach: "You were coaching him to stop slapping the trigger, right?" He said "Of course." "So we were both coaching him to shoot the same way we shoot but you're telling him something different? I don't shoot targets that way and I don't believe you do either." She said nothing. I then assured my grandson that it was all a "misunderstanding." He did nothing wrong. Then the next week we were met in the parking lot by the head honcho father who informed us the juniors club was "not in your grandson's best interest" and ordered us to leave. Claimed I "cornered" his daughter which was BS. I said we should ask the coach what happened. He blocked me from going into the range building and at one point even grabbed me. He really scared my grandson. Very disturbing.

So my question is ... who was wrong? Is there something I don't know about range etiquette? I'm not a range nut (only joined last year) so maybe there's some different way of shooting at paper targets?

 

[375Ruger416]

Petty tyrant is the problem. Rifle pointed at target, nothing down range you are not willing to destroy then finger on the trigger is fine.

 

[375Ruger416]

By the way, blocking you from going into the building and physically touching you is way out of bounds.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

By the way, blocking you from going into the building and physically touching you is way out of bounds.

Yep. I sent a lengthy letter (twice!) to the"board" advising them what happened. No response. Technically it was assault. I would have called the police but too many of them belong to the club. Would have been a waste of time. Still haven't had an official expulsion letter or refunded membership fees but obviously we are not going out there if that nut hasn't been sorted. Nuts with guns is a dangerous cocktail.

 

[Challer]

Tell us the club

 

[JimP]

That's no different than hundreds of other ranges.

This is one reason I refuse to join a local gun club, that and their dues are so far out of sight that they should be supplying free ammo for the cost of the membership.

The nice thing is that I can drive 10 minutes and have a nice area of BLM land that I have measured off shooting lanes out to 500 yards. As long as I go out there on week days I am fine, weekends are a nightmare with all the ATV riders out there.

 

[Pilgrim]

That's no different than hundreds of other ranges.

This is one reason I refuse to join a local gun club, that and their dues are so far out of sight that they should be supplying free ammo for the cost of the membership.

The nice thing is that I can drive 10 minutes and have a nice area of BLM land that I have measured off shooting lanes out to 500 yards. As long as I go out there on week days I am fine, weekends are a nightmare with all the ATV riders out there.

I second this. I haven't been to an official range in years, I doubt that will change anytime soon.

 

[TnKen]

These are the four cardinal rules of firearm safety, as I teach/was taught.

1. Treat all guns as if they are loaded.
2. Always point the gun in a safe direction.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and are ready to shoot.
4. Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

I can't tell by reading your post exactly what your grandson was doing that seemed unsafe to the range personnel. I'm guessing maybe he was on the trigger as soon as the gun was mounted, but not on target and that was the issue??? If that was the case it could be a teachable moment. Lots of ranges have different rules, and different interpretations of said rules.
It sounds like he wants to pull the trigger as soon as he is on it and has a sight picture.
A drill you can practice with him is to have him get a sight picture, finger on the trigger, but only shoot when he is given the command to do so. When you do this drill don't always let him shoot, tell him to remove his finger from the trigger and put it on the frame and maintain the sight picture.
As far as the person putting hands on you, yes that was out of bounds.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

These are the four cardinal rules of firearm safety, as I teach/was taught.

1. Treat all guns as if they are loaded.
2. Always point the gun in a safe direction.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and are ready to shoot.
4. Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

I can't tell by reading your post exactly what your grandson was doing that seemed unsafe to the range personnel. I'm guessing maybe he was on the trigger as soon as the gun was mounted, but not on target and that was the issue??? If that was the case it could be a teachable moment. Lots of ranges have different rules, and different interpretations of said rules.
It sounds like he wants to pull the trigger as soon as he is on it and has a sight picture.
A drill you can practice with him is to have him get a sight picture, finger on the trigger, but only shoot when he is given the command to do so. When you do this drill don't always let him shoot, tell him to remove his finger from the trigger and put it on the frame and maintain the sight picture.
As far as the person putting hands on you, yes that was out of bounds.

Your suppositions are wrong on all counts. Remember, I was watching him through the window to see if he corrected. Initially during second session he did drop his finger into the trigger guard but not until he was on the gun and on target. But still staying off the trigger until he slapped it to shoot. Then the coach corrected him. I had to wonder why he was shooting this way when I'd always taught him to get on the trigger and squeeze after he's on the gun and on target. And he's watched me shoot countless rounds properly. I'm thinking this gal simply felt a compulsion to assert herself at the expense of my grandson.

 

[TnKen]

Your suppositions are wrong on all counts. Remember, I was watching him through the window to see if he corrected. Initially during second session he did drop his finger into the trigger guard but not until he was on the gun and on target. But still staying off the trigger until he slapped it to shoot. Then the coach corrected him. I had to wonder why he was shooting this way when I'd always taught him to get on the trigger and squeeze after he's on the gun and on target. And he's watched me shoot countless rounds properly. I'm thinking this gal simply felt a compulsion to assert herself at the expense of my grandson.

That is why I said I couldn't tell from your post what he was doing "wrong". I have reread your post and still see no explanation of what the safety violation. What did the range officer that threatened to to kick him off say it was?

 

[IvW]

You are farting against thunder.....

 

[Ontario Hunter]

That is why I said I couldn't tell from your post what he was doing "wrong". I have reread your post and still see no explanation of what the safety violation. What did the range officer that threatened to to kick him off say it was?

All he said was I had "cornered" his daughter. I don't think he had a clue if any safety violation actually occurred. He didn't want to discuss safety. I don't think it mattered to him. This was obviously about me not anything my grandson did or didn't do. Petty tyrant seems an accurate assessment. The sad thing is my grandson was really enjoying the club. This will leave a bad taste in his mouth re guns and gun people.

 

[Flbt]

By the way, blocking you from going into the building and physically touching you is way out of bounds.

I would most definitely be having a problem with that

 

[Flbt]

This past year my eleven year-old grandson decided to try the juniors shooting club associated with my rifle range. The local Association actually has two ranges: one near town that I knew had a very checkered history, and a more primitive range rented on a property about 35 minutes away. I opted to be a member at the more remote range and avoid the local drama. But the juniors shoot at the local range. Every week it was a veritable Chinese fire drill with range being opened late, very disorganized, and little kids rarely getting home before 9:00 p.m. on a school night. But my grandson was really enjoying it and making lots of friends so what the hell. Eventually I did suggest they start earlier and the guy in charge literally blew up. "Nobody respects us poor volunteers, all we get is criticism, blah, blah, blah." I was quite shocked at his reaction. Then last month grandson was finally able to shoot my .22 instead of the club junk. I knew from past experience he is a very good shot with that rifle. However, his targets at the range have not been what he's capable of. Due to a snowstorm earlier in the day only a couple of kids showed up so I was able to watch him shoot through the window in the door to firing room. The problem was obvious. After he was on the gun he kept his trigger finger up on the side of the stock above the trigger guard and then jumped on the trigger to fire. When he was done I coached him to get on the trigger as soon as his cheek was on the gun and on target. Then squeeze the trigger. Second target and this time he does put his finger inside the trigger guard but still jumping on it to fire. A coach sat down next to him and I could see him demonstrating with his finger to not slap the trigger. So grandson proceeds to follow instructions. He finishes first and as he's leaving the room he briefly disappears out of sight. When he does come through the door, he goes straight to the back and puts his head in his hands. I wait for the targets to come in and he has done very well (except two extra flyers from the girl shooting at the target next to him). When I take the target to him I find he is sobbing. What happened? The head honcho's daughter, who is a self appointed safety officer, stopped him on the way off the firing line and said she would kick him out of the club if he continued to use that shooting technique. That didn't sound right. Must have been something else. I went to the firing room where she and the coach were cleaning up. Asked what she said and she confirmed it. "But if the gun is pointed down range and he's on the gun, his finger should be on the trigger so he can squeeze and fire, right?" Her response: "Not on my range." I turned to the coach: "You were coaching him to stop slapping the trigger, right?" He said "Of course." "So we were both coaching him to shoot the same way we shoot but you're telling him something different? I don't shoot targets that way and I don't believe you do either." She said nothing. I then assured my grandson that it was all a "misunderstanding." He did nothing wrong. Then the next week we were met in the parking lot by the head honcho father who informed us the juniors club was "not in your grandson's best interest" and ordered us to leave. Claimed I "cornered" his daughter which was BS. I said we should ask the coach what happened. He blocked me from going into the range building and at one point even grabbed me. He really scared my grandson. Very disturbing.

So my question is ... who was wrong? Is there something I don't know about range etiquette? I'm not a range nut (only joined last year) so maybe there's some different way of shooting at paper targets?

Do you have a local 4h?
Some of them have a shooting club.
Do you have time to volunteer?
If they don’t have the club they might let you start one

 

[Rafiki]

All he said was I had "cornered" his daughter.

That's the key phrase, and why you had this altercation.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Do you have a local 4h?
Some of them have a shooting club.
Do you have time to volunteer?
If they don’t have the club they might let you start one

The range facility probably would not take kindly to allowing another youth club. Part of the pomitics drama. I tried to start a high school team at my trap club and that was similarly stonewalled by old farts on the board of dictators. Pretty sad.

As far as I know my membership at the other out in the country range is still in good standing. No one has asked for my key. Kick my grandson out of the association but I can still shoot. Go figure! He will continue to shoot with me there as my guest. But kids need to be with kids. Damn shame.

 

[thriller]

I would like to hear their side of how this went down personally….

 

[Ontario Hunter]

That's the key phrase, and why you had this altercation.

I guess I should have went right to the top rather than discuss it with her individually. Figured it was resolved. Didn't see any point in humiliating or embarrassing her. That would not be productive. The question of whether there was a safety issue was sorted out quickly and quietly without any argument or hurt feelings. No one went away angry. Or so I thought.

 

[Flbt]

The range facility probably would not take kindly to allowing another youth club. Part of the pomitics drama. I tried to start a high school team at my trap club and that was similarly stonewalled by old farts on the board of dictators. Pretty sad.

As far as I know my membership at the other out in the country range is still in good standing. No one has asked for my key. Kick my grandson out of the association but I can still shoot. Go figure! He will continue to shoot with me there as my guest. But kids need to be with kids. Damn shame.

 

[375Ruger416]

Maybe, but on the other hand, a child that nominates themselves as a safety officer and put herself in a position of authority because their parent or family member is one is a little dictator in the making.