R8 one system two barrels for DG and PG in same hunt?

[TOBY458]

Well, as I write, I do not have a .375, nor a .300 for that matter. But point taken on PG with .416.

I'm going on an elephant hunt next year that will include buffalo and PG. I'm most likely taking my R8 416 Rem Mag only. Since I'll predominantly be hunting DG, with a chance of an Eland or Sable popping up, I'll just have to use the 416 for everything. If there were no elephant in the picture, I'd use my 375 in the same manner.

 

[TOBY458]

Well, as I write, I do not have a .375, nor a .300 for that matter. But point taken on PG with .416.

You also don't have a 416.....

 

[Luminous Ham]

I suggest watching my Dangerous Game Scopes video. 4x on the top end is like using a musket these days. There is simply no reason for it. It has little versatility.
You don't tell us where you are going so it is hard to gauge the PG Hunting volume. If it wasZim or similar I'd be tempted to just take the .416. If you are going to a well stocked game farm them I'd certainly take the PG rifle.
And yes just a .375 is an option.

Thanks, looked at the video, very useful! And points taken, extra arguments to try some 1.5- or 1.7-, or perhaps even 2- but that I am pretty sure I wont be able to do with both eyes open, but to be tested.

And yes, hoping/aiming for Zimbabwe, Nyakasanga (since I have more calibers I certainly want to bring more than one

And happy to hear that eye relief is mainly down to fitting the rifle correctly, I have been a bit worried about that. But I am so lucky (or perhaps for once I was wise) that I bought my stock with all the adjustments possible, ie. adjustable comb and recoil pad (length and height) cheek and length, so that should help.

 

[Luminous Ham]

You also don't have a 416.....

Hehe, you are right on that. But, I would be loath to buy a .375 when I have 9.3x62
(that's why I wrote that I was aware that a .375 would work for all, but that was not my question). But I can see a .416 fit in, and who knows, perhaps one day an elephant hunt.

 

[Luminous Ham]

Yes, use a high quality expanding but deep penetrating bullet - like 300 gr Barnes TSX or Swift A-frame. Whoops - sorry you’re shooting a 416 - a 400 gr. Can bring a matching solid for the Barnes for follow up shots on big dangerous game like buffalo, elephant, hippo and for use on the tiny ten. I like Barnes myself - haven’t used them in Africa yet (6 mos and counting down…) - but they’ve performed well on deer and moose for me. Deep penetration and good expansion. https://www.barnesbullets.com/vor-tx-safari-shop-all/.

Once you’ve got your buffalo (and any plains game of opportunity), switch to the 243. As always, follow the advice of your PH.

Thanks, and with the risk of derailing to discussion: I have seen in other places this about bringing solides for follow-up. How does that work, do you bring a separate magazine (in my case a separate trigger house with mag insert) with solids, or do you have like the first one or two bullets being non-solids, and the next ones being solids. Or, do you load solids when you need them from the top (I can do that on my rifle provided I have already used some of my non-solids)?

 

[Red Leg]

How long is your hunt? If you are going for seven days, forget a second barrel because you are likely going to spend most of your time looking for a buffalo. At ten days, if your DG choice is a 40 something, then a dedicated PG barrel begins to make sense. Or you can solve that conundrum, by forgetting the 40 something and get a .375 in spite of your 9.3 (at last count I think I have three of each).

I have 6.5x55, 257 Wby, 300 Win Mag, 375 H&H, and .404 barrels for my R8s. Thus far, when I travel to Africa with a R8, only the .375 has come along with me and that includes a couple of two-week expeditions. It is just such a perfect choice and has killed every buffalo (or anything else I have pointed it at) quite conclusively.

I shoot all my scopes both eyes open, it is easy to train your dominate eye to do so. However, with respect to scope power, a 1 or 2 x whatever will handle any opportunity in Africa. When hunting plains game, I keep whatever scope I have dialed at 4X and do not remember ever cranking one to a higher magnification there.

Finally, If you do talk yourself into a .416, and you are hunting more than seven days, then, as suggested above, get a .300 Win Mag with which to marry it. While hunting buffalo, you will primarily be hunting buffalo and likely in an area with fairly limited PG. If the kudu of your lifetime does pop up just shoot him with the .416. In Zim in particular, the range is more likely to be under 100 than over 200. Convert to the .300 when you have your buffalo.

I have never used solids for back up. 300 or 400 gr A-Frames do just fine on buffalo coming or going. Most PHs will now tell you that as well. I always do bring a few solids, but they are for any members of the tiny ten we might encounter. I would not consider bringing a .243 to Africa even if the bullets were constructed of unobtanium. I have never attempted to shoot a member of the tiny ten with a 40 something.

So if my calculations are correct, you can either buy one barrel - a .375 or two barrels - .416 and .300.

 

[Luminous Ham]

How long is your hunt? If you are going for seven days, forget a second barrel because you are likely going to spend most of your time looking for a buffalo. At ten days, if your DG choice is a 40 something, then a dedicated PG barrel begins to make sense. Or you can solve that conundrum, by forgetting the 40 something and get a .375 in spite of your 9.3 (at last count I think I have three of each).

I have 6.5x55, 257 Wby, 300 Win Mag, 375 H&H, and .404 barrels for my R8s. Thus far, when I travel to Africa with a R8, only the .375 has come along with me and that includes a couple of two-week expeditions. It is just such a perfect choice and has killed every buffalo (or anything else I have pointed it at) quite conclusively.

I shoot all my scopes both eyes open, it is easy to train your dominate eye to do so. However, with respect to scope power, a 1 or 2 x whatever will handle any opportunity in Africa. When hunting plains game, I keep whatever scope I have dialed at 4X and do not remember ever cranking one to a higher magnification there.

Finally, If you do talk yourself into a .416, and you are hunting more than seven days, then, as suggested above, get a .300 Win Mag with which to marry it. While hunting buffalo, you will primarily be hunting buffalo and likely in an area with fairly limited PG. If the kudu of your lifetime does pop up just shoot him with the .416. In Zim in particular, the range is more likely to be under 100 than over 200. Convert to the .300 when you have your buffalo.

I have never used solids for back up. 300 or 400 gr A-Frames do just fine on buffalo coming or going. Most PHs will now tell you that as well. I always do bring a few solids, but they are for any members of the tiny ten we might encounter. I would not consider bringing a .243 to Africa even if the bullets were constructed of unobtanium. I have never attempted to shoot a member of the tiny ten with a 40 something.

So if my calculations are correct, you can either buy one barrel - a .375 or two barrels - .416 and .300.

Also good inputs, wonder though why three barrels of each caliber..., but perhaps the same reason as why I am tempted to buy the .416 (not because it is necessary, but....). Well, it could also be if one day an elephant hunt came up.

I do not know about length, will have to discuss with outfitter when we get that far in the planning. But also need to consider that I am a borne optimist - in Africa only tried four days, priority was an Oryx; unlikely goet in four days, but got it the first afternoon, same might happen with a buffalo... or not.

Why buy a .300 when I have the 9.3x62?

And thanks for the feedback on the scope. I need to look more into that. Honestly, I was a bit surprised to hear higher up that 1-4 was not enough. Yes, insufficient for small creatures far away, but I rarely use more than x6 for roe deer which are fairly small, and can be 100+ yards away, and given the size of many PGs I would think x4 would work in a pinch if some irresistable PG species show up on the lookout for a buffalo. But certainly would use more power if going specifically for PGs.

 

[Red Leg]

Also good inputs, wonder though why three barrels of each caliber..., but perhaps the same reason as why I am tempted to buy the .416 (not because it is necessary, but....). Well, it could also be if one day an elephant hunt came up.

I do not know about length, will have to discuss with outfitter when we get that far in the planning. But also need to consider that I am a borne optimist - in Africa only tried four days, priority was an Oryx; unlikely goet in four days, but got it the first afternoon, same might happen with a buffalo... or not.

Why buy a .300 when I have the 9.3x62?

And thanks for the feedback on the scope. I need to look more into that. Honestly, I was a bit surprised to hear higher up that 1-4 was not enough. Yes, insufficient for small creatures far away, but I rarely use more than x6 for roe deer which are fairly small, and can be 100+ yards away, and given the size of many PGs I would think x4 would work in a pinch if some irresistable PG species show up on the lookout for a buffalo. But certainly would use more power if going specifically for PGs.

Who said anything about three R8 barrels in each caliber? The 9.3's - actually 4 - are two 9.3x74R Pre-WWII doubles (one a double rifle drilling) and two 9.3x62's - one a Sako Arctos and the other a pre-WWII German sporter. The .375's are a R8, Blaser S2, and custom .375 built on a FN Mauser action.

A .300 is a far more versatile caliber in a lot more places than a 9.3 - and I obviously love a 9.3.

Curious who builds a 1x4 these days? Traditional was a 1x6, and of course the new Z8 is a 1x8.

My experience has been finding a buffalo is a bit more difficult than shooting an Oryx.

 

[BeeMaa]

Most people don't start the Blaser R8 setup with a 243WIN & 9.3x62, but those are good calibers none the less. The great thing about Blaser is that you can change things up as needed, not just adding a barrel here and there but also subtracting as you see fit.

The great thing about the two barrels you have is they share a bolt head. The bad thing is that you can't go any bigger without swapping to a MA (magnum) bolt head. Having another barrel that is in the .30 caliber range (7mmRM or 300WM) and shares the same bolt head would make a heap of sense.

Why is it that we always seem to circle back (at leas closely) to the "classic African 2-gun safari" calibers of 30-06 and 375H&H?

 

[Red Leg]

Most people don't start the Blaser R8 setup with a 243WIN & 9.3x62, but those are good calibers none the less. The great thing about Blaser is that you can change things up as needed, not just adding a barrel here and there but also subtracting as you see fit.

The great thing about the two barrels you have is they share a bolt head. The bad thing is that you can't go any bigger without swapping to a MA (magnum) bolt head. Having another barrel that is in the .30 caliber range (7mmRM or 300WM) and shares the same bolt head would make a heap of sense.

Why is it that we always seem to circle back (at leas closely) to the "classic African 2-gun safari" calibers of 30-06 and 375H&H?

Or .300 Win Mag and .375 .......

 

[Luminous Ham]

Who said anything about three R8 barrels in each caliber? The 9.3's - actually 4 - are two 9.3x74R Pre-WWII doubles (one a double rifle drilling) and two 9.3x62's - one a Sako Arctos and the other a pre-WWII German sporter. The .375's are a R8, Blaser S2, and custom .375 built on a FN Mauser action.

A .300 is a far more versatile caliber in a lot more places than a 9.3 - and I obviously love a 9.3.

Curious who builds a 1x4 these days? Traditional was a 1x6, and of course the new Z8 is a 1x8.

My experience has been finding a buffalo is a bit more difficult than shooting an Oryx.

oh, I see, not three 9.3x62.

Don't know about 1-4 perhaps 1-6 is standard, even better. But find Z8 1-8 very expensive. I have been looking a bit though, for a 1-6x28. Seems like x28 are all FFP, while to get SFP one can 'only' get x24, seems strange to me. And a bit worried about FFP recticle size on 8x zoom.

Yes understand buffalo can be more difficult, but still, one never know...

 

[Luminous Ham]

Most people don't start the Blaser R8 setup with a 243WIN & 9.3x62, but those are good calibers none the less. The great thing about Blaser is that you can change things up as needed, not just adding a barrel here and there but also subtracting as you see fit.

The great thing about the two barrels you have is they share a bolt head. The bad thing is that you can't go any bigger without swapping to a MA (magnum) bolt head. Having another barrel that is in the .30 caliber range (7mmRM or 300WM) and shares the same bolt head would make a heap of sense.

Why is it that we always seem to circle back (at leas closely) to the "classic African 2-gun safari" calibers of 30-06 and 375H&H?

Thanks. Yes, might not be the typical start up, especially for Africa. But perhaps it is in UK where .243 is widely used.

Here in Denmark most have .308, 30-06, 6.5x55 (I also have an old Savage .308). But we have new rules now, meaning that a .243 with enough energy can also be used for red stag and fallow deer, and I hunt for roe deer in a place where once in a blue moon a fallow deer passes by, and would hate not being able to shoot it. And then I wanted some span up to the next size (for eg red stag, wild boar, elk, tc) but still same bolt head. So that's why. And that's why I will not spend money on a .375 because I have a 9.3, would rather go one up to also be prepared for elephants.

So, for now at least, I will keep the .243 and the 9x3x62, and wants a .416. I do not see a magnum bolt head as a problem (I believe that would also be required for a 30-06/.375 classic combo).

 

[dchamp]

Something I have’nt seen mentioned that you need to be aware of is; If your R8 is standard you will need to open up the barrel channel for the .416RM barrel to fit in the stock. Plus the Standard R8 is a little lighter in weight than the Safari stocks therefore adding a little more punishment to you.

Regardless what caliber(s) you choose keep things simple, one scope and one load per barrel. You will discover confusion if you have to think very much.

Personally, If legal and with the blessings of your PH, I would consider using only the 9.3x62 since you already have it.

 

[Luminous Ham]

I appreciate all the suggestions on calibers (wrote in my question that I was aware that .375 would be a good all-round caliber) but there are other threads about that. I really just wanted to hear about practicalities with regard to PG/DG sort of at the same time with the different calibers (I hear: stick to .416 until buffalo dead).

So thanka for all that, really useful, and I'm grateful that so many wants to contribute!

 

[Luminous Ham]

Something I have’nt seen mentioned that you need to be aware of is; If your R8 is standard you will need to open up the barrel channel for the .416RM barrel to fit in the stock. Plus the Standard R8 is a little lighter in weight than the Safari stocks therefore adding a little more punishment to you.

Regardless what caliber(s) you choose keep things simple, one scope and one load per barrel. You will discover confusion if you have to think very much.

Personally, If legal and with the blessings of your PH, I would consider using only the 9.3x62 since you already have it.

Thanks, yes, I am aware, but could as easily have been unaware.

I actually have a 17mm forend, but that can easily be expanded to 19 mm, and then I can have a 19 mm .416 made. Lighter than a 22 mm, but I use scope and silencer, and silencer reduces recoil too, so would think that would easily make up for the reduced weight, right?

 

[AimSmall]

Another thought might be to accept the R8 as the addiction it is intended to be and buy another chassis for the other barrels you surely will wind up with!

 

[BeeMaa]

Or .300 Win Mag and .375 .......

That's what I meant by putting "close" in my post.

So, for now at least, I will keep the .243 and the 9x3x62, and wants a .416. I do not see a magnum bolt head as a problem (I believe that would also be required for a 30-06/.375 classic combo).

30-06 takes the standard (ST) bolt head that you already have.

Blaser used to sell an African Package that was the 300WM and 375H&H (among other combinations) in a Pelican 1700 case because these both use the MA bolt head and are a great choice for hunting Africa and across the world. Here's one of those combos on GI although they have now have the Negrini case because the Blaser branded Pelican has been discontinued.
Blaser African Combo

 

[375Ruger416]

BeeMaa is right, most people seem to consider solids unnecessary for buffalo if you are using a TSX or similar. However, there is some merit to having 1 or 2 expanding bullets followed by solids. If you need to take a ‘going away’ shot or a quartering away shot from the left side that needs to pass through a rumen full of grass you will need all the penetration you can get. Same for body shots on elephant or hippo.

This is very much the conventional wisdom and seems to be changing. Would be interested to hear from PH’s on this site about the need for solids to followup.

I agree with your primary choice - 1 barrel, 1 optic, one load.

Reptics. 1-6 is a significant step up from 1-4 and nearly everyone offers one. I have one in a carbine and really like it. I can shoot farther with it than I expected. I also looked at the 1-8 and went with a 2-12 instead due to the price difference. A 2-10 is more economical still. A 24 mm objective is enough for a 6x magnification - still gives you a 4 mm exit pupil which is all your eyes can use.

Since we’re spending your money , get a 416, put a 1-6 or 2-10 on it, and shoot one load out to 200/225 m. Final answer!!!

 

[TOBY458]

I've been well served by Leupold 1.5-5×20 and Nikon 1-4×20 scopes on my DG rifles. I've also had great success with a Leupold 2-7×33 on my 375 H&H rifles. This magnification works perfectly on everything I've ever shot with a 375. Including some pretty long shots on Zebra and Eland. I've also used the 2-7×33 on an elephant at 15 yards and several buffalo at 50 yards or less, so it works both near and far. So with that said, you simply don't have to spend $2K+ for a very usable scope for use in Africa.

 

[One Day...]

It seems to me that the very rationale behind a Blaser is the opportunity to travel with several barrels... + a few thoughts...

As long as everything fits in one Pelican 1700 that meets maximum size and maximum weight for airlines requirements, and you have several barrels, why limit yourself Luminous Ham?

I entirely agree with a lot of what has been said above, re. calibers, bullets, scopes, how to organize the hunt, etc. and I have a few thoughts of my own to add, but on the issue of the number of barrels, I unashamedly take 3 barrels and 3 scopes on typically 12-day hunts:

• .257 Wby for MG (mountain game) e.g. Vaal Rhebok, Mountain Reedbuck, etc. where range is appreciated; and for most light PG, where ease of shooting and lightning killing are appreciated.
• .300 Wby for heavier PG e.g. Kudu, Wildebeest, etc. where the ability to deliver massive killing power at range can be appreciated.
• Either .458 Lott if after herbivorous DG e.g. Elephant, Buffalo, Hippo, where stopping power could be appreciated, or .375 H&H if after carnivorous DG e.g. Lion, Leopard (not really needed for Leo but often required by law).

Blaser R8 in Pelican 1700 with .257 Wby / .300 Wby / .458 Lott barrels with their scopes

Blaser R8 in Pelican 1700 with .257 Wby / .300 Wby / .375 H&H barrels with their scopes

Bringing 3 barrels causes no additional cost, no additional paperwork, no additional logistic concern, so I really do not see why not... Besides, why own a R8, and why own several barrels, if you do not travel with them and use them...

Sure, .375 H&H will do it all, but frankly why buy the expensive R8 if one is going to take only a .375 pipe to Africa. A Win 70 will do just fine, at a fraction of the price...

And of course for a 5 day hunt for a single Buff you only need one barrel, but I prefer to amortize the airfare costs, recuperate from a 24 hour-trip, and have the opportunity to truly disconnect my mind, so I prefer to go for 12 hunting days, traveling the weekends before and after. Considering the comparatively low cost of daily rates compared to airfare and trophy fees, I like being able to not feel like I HAVE to shoot this one, because I may not have the time to find a better one.

And too, specialized hunts such as Bongo or Lord Derby eland would hardly need more than the .375 H&H tube.

A few thoughts, in no particular order:

• All my calibers, including at either end the .257 Wby and the .458 Lott have overlap capabilities. For example, the .257 Wby flattened a 500 lbs. Roan as effectively as if it had been a Duiker, and the scoped .458 Lott shoots flat enough and far enough to bag a young Impala for the pot on the way back, or the next world-record whatever, should I bump into it while hunting DG.
• This being said, I am very focused on my hunts, and if hunting DG, I typically do not shoot PG. I walk & stalk, up close, generally far, sometimes very far from the truck, I do not want to disturb the block with shots in thick bush or Jesse as the dream elephant or buffalo could be there at 50 yards but still invisible, and it would have to be a 70" kudu or 60" sable for me to drop the spoor. Potting an impala on the way back at the end of the day is just fine, and any caliber will do.
• Therefore, depending on what we will be hunting that day, and where, e.g. bush or mountains, I put on the R8 the optimum barrel before we leave camp, and no, I am not concerned about being under-gunned if bumping into an elephant or lion with the .257 Wby or .300 Wby pipe on, because this is unrealistic. The days are long gone when you could legally bag an opportunity elephant or lion, and if you have them on license you will most probably focus on them first.
• I never carry several barrels in the field. I go out with one barrel, and one load (except matching softs & solids when using the double .470, which is rarer and rarer since I have the R8). No confusion, no fiddling around, etc.
• On that note, one load and one scope per barrel. Period. For me, after everything being Nosler Partition for decades, now everything is TTSX: 100 gr .257 Wby, 165 gr .300 Wby, 300 gr .375 H&H, 500 gr .458 Lott. I find that the weight retention of the TTSX is such that on PG it is advantageous to go down in bullets weight.
• No solids for buffalo. This era is over. Monometal "soft" e.g. Barnes, Peregrine, etc. or bonded "soft" e.g. A-Frame will give you all the penetration you need, and modern monometal solids will easily take two buffs in a herd by also killing the one behind the one you shoot. An expensive oooops! A 500 gr .458 Lott TTSX shot up the rear end of a fleeting Buff will typically exit out of his brisket, or rest under the skin. Conversely, the wisdom is still solids only on Elephant, although I would argue that the TTSX is perfect for a behind-the-shoulder lung shot., which remains a very effective and practical shot on Elephant. Not to mention much easier...
• The DG scope needs to go down to 1x and preferably have a red dot built in, so that you can shoot fast easily with two eyes open. Not everyone can shoot with both eyes open if the glass is magnified. The red dot helps. I have always failed to get the point of 6x or 8x at the top of the magnification range on a DG scope with a 24 mm objective, but modern marketing defeats me. 4x, like in the old Schmidt & Bender was plenty good for DG. I still have one, but I now use a Leica Magnus 1-6.3x24, which I carry at 1x and can crank up if needed (rare) and if time would permit (frequent).
• 9.3x62 is good enough on Buff (it has killed plenty of them since German Tanganyika), but there is no arguing: it does not hit as hard as the .375 H&H. At both ends by the way. Which is why I have a .375 H&H barrel and my wife mounts a 9.3x62 barrel on her R8.
• Of course, .416 and .458, whichever variation of those, will hit even harder, but again: at both ends. Not everyone is well served by a canon they barely control at the range, and are deep down a bit apprehensive of. Not to mention that field shooting is very, very different, and many folks come back from Africa with a nice little scar on the forehead caused by said canon that they forgot was a canon when they pulled the trigger in the excitement of their first DG hunt.
• This being said, despite the fact that many will rightfully argue that it is your PH's job to protect you should things turn nasty, I like a stopper caliber when after DG. This mean .40+ and preferably .45+. Sure, you will likely never ever need it, but once in a while clients do have to shoot the Buff off their PH's back after he has been tossed, and once in a while too, clients do have to shoot after the Elephant has killed the PH. So, to each their own, and to each their probability arithmetic, but I, for one, schlep the .458 Lott when after things that can stomp you in a messy stain on the African soil. And I fully know that the chance for me to need it are in the 0.000001% range, or something like that. But as said previously, to each their own.
• I like the .257 Wby and .300 Wby because there will always be commercial ammo for them, which may, or may not, be the case for a whole range of recent super-duper 6.5 and .300, depending on their commercial success. Admittedly the good old .300 Win will do just fine too.
• But a .300 is not a 9.3x62, or vice-versa. A .300 is likely the most versatile PG caliber, from being usable on small PG to being perfect on large PG (except Eland which requires a step up), but it lacks power for DG. A 9.3 is the minimum DG practical caliber but if lacks range for PG.