Question to guides/PH's, what makes a good client?

[ftrovato]

Been out of the game full time for a while now I will just add from a PH/guides point of view.

Clients who don't appreciatte what they hunt and where they are and what experience they get.
In the same breath these are far and few in between but when you have one and they harvest top animals as a ph/me you feel that the client does not deserve this trophy as he doesn't value it as much as someone who has done homework and dreamt about this specific specie.

As a hunter where ever you are, you should enjoy and realize that we as hunters are the biggest custodians of nature of a passion that we do and love to live out.

Well said Frederik. It's about showing respect not entitlement!

 

[Carnivore hunter]

Have any of you had any clients who don't want to or refuse to eat what they hunt, meaning the client shoots an animal and refuses to eat it? Do guides/ph's and cooks prefer the client eat what they hunt? Is the eating of the animals that are hunted part the whole adventure and expected by the outfitter?

For me personally, it's not about killing animals just to kill an animal for sport, there has to be a real purpose for me to kill an animal and it's the meat they provide and I'd like to experience the meat of these animals and also I'm on the carnivore diet so I'm all in on eating as much meat as possible.

 

[NoNo94]

To answer your question about gifts, I contacted my South African outfitter beforehand and asked what kind of candy he likes from America. I brought that and other assorted candies and gave them to the PH, guide, and owner. Seemed very appreciative!

 

[375Fox]

Have any of you had any clients who don't want to or refuse to eat what they hunt, meaning the client shoots an animal and refuses to eat it? Do guides/ph's and cooks prefer the client eat what they hunt? Is the eating of the animals that are hunted part the whole adventure and expected by the outfitter?

For me personally, it's not about killing animals just to kill an animal for sport, there has to be a real purpose for me to kill an animal and it's the meat they provide and I'd like to experience the meat of these animals and also I'm on the carnivore diet so I'm all in on eating as much meat as possible.

You’re not just killing an animal just for sport in Africa. If the only value it has is protein then it won’t be there. Legal/Sport hunting in Africa adds value and protects the wildlife. The areas where the only value an animal had was protein they are already poached out. The areas were paid sport hunting occurs the meat is still used, but the money keeps the wildlife there. Until you see the difference you can’t understand it because it’s so different from North America. In North America you stop legal hunting for a few years the wildlife populations will generally grow. In Africa you stop legal hunting the wildlife populations rapidly decline from uncontrolled poaching and encroachment.

For your specific question, it depends. On private land the meat is sold. You may keep some from certain animals or maybe not. On communal land, the meat goes to community and some is usually saved for camp as well. I’ve been in camp where you eat the previous clients animals, where the outfitter supplied beef and lamb, and where we had to shoot an animal for camp meat. It all depends.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

My first PH and the lodge owner related just a few examples of bad clients. As often as not it seems bad behavior in the lodge is more of a problem than in the field. Lodge owner told me quite bluntly no more Saudi clients. Bad behavior at the lodge was ... spectacular. Arrogant and complaining about everything. The only clients that were worse was a group of Russians led by a fat gal that was connected to one of Putin's oligarch buddies. She was the proverbial client from hell. Carried on all night every night inside and outside their rooms and then literally destroyed each room before leaving. My PH said her personal hygiene was disgusting. The one incident he had with a client was related as a consequence of my initial warning re my inexperience hunting with others: though I had almost fifty years extensive experience hunting, it was almost exclusively solo. "Keep an eye on me. Don't be afraid to say something." Then he told me about the young American client who demanded to hunt alone. Glen of course told him that's not happening. Client got nasty and Insisted so he loaded him up and drove an hour and a half back to the lodge. The lodge owner backed Glen up and with a smile simply told client he could follow instructions or he would drive him to the airport next day. Glen said client finished his safari but pouted like a little kid the entire time.

My experience, albeit limited, with people who can afford expensive hunts, especially repeatedly, is they too often "have more money than sense." People who are insensitive are typically inconsiderate. Being rich seems to often do that to folks. My hat's off to PHs and lodge operators. Same with high class hotel staff. Takes a much thicker skin than mine. Fortunately, during my long career as a park ranger my interaction with the public was mostly with the unwashed masses ... and I interacted well with them because I was raised in a blue collar home.

I think the better safari clients know themselves and their own shortcomings. And they don't hesitate to make their PH's aware. I don't have much patience with myself. That's my biggest defect. It can make me moody. I can't drink booze like I used to. It messes up my sleep pattern which makes me even more moody. I make the staff aware that I prefer ginger ale and maybe one beer or a glass of wine at dinner. I'm not fussy about accommodations or cuisine. I often fall asleep on the couch at home. I'd be fine doing it on safari. Dinner today was hot dogs sliced up in canned vegetable soup and a glass of chocolate milk. Covered all the food groups. Good enough. I'm asked what I'd prefer to eat on safari and my reply is always the same: "Whatever you've got." The way I was raised you eat what's put on the table when you're dining at someone else's place. My room is always in order when I leave to go hunting in the morning. I typically even make the bed (my late wife did it at motels) and always leave instructions that sheets and towels do not need to be changed till my safari ends. I know water is a premium there. My clothes are washed because I only bring two changes with me. Anyway, staff have better things to do than pick up after my lazy arse.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Have any of you had any clients who don't want to or refuse to eat what they hunt, meaning the client shoots an animal and refuses to eat it?

Have hunted with a Vegan hunter before. Does that count?

 

[Killo]

Following

 

[Ridge Runner]

Been out of the game full time for a while now I will just add from a PH/guides point of view.

Clients who don't appreciatte what they hunt and where they are and what experience they get.
In the same breath these are far and few in between but when you have one and they harvest top animals as a ph/me you feel that the client does not deserve this trophy as he doesn't value it as much as someone who has done homework and dreamt about this specific specie.

As a hunter where ever you are, you should enjoy and realize that we as hunters are the biggest custodians of nature of a passion that we do and love to live out.

As a client from my prospective; I don't show emotions after killing, especially a 4 legged animal like the jerks on YouTube or the various hunting programs on satellite/cable with the trembling and high fives, etc., BS.

Killing is a sacred act.....ending of a life....which should never be taken lightly. I have no problem with killing. I just have a problem with a$$holes celebrating killing, cheapening a life, without honoring the hunt.

Selecting, shooting an animal, from a comfort controlled box blind, over feeder(s) is just that!! shooting not hunting. It's the perverbial shooting fish [a game animal] in a barrel.

These same self called/ proclaimed hunters scream about only hunting in area being free range hunts, degrading hunters /hunting in fenced in areas regardless whether the fence is 4 feet high or 10+ feet high and the property 10,000 or more acres taking more than a week to cover on foot.

So yeah, dead is dead, and it makes no difference to me if the animal is a fair representation of species or a world record class. I only do a protocol congratulations to the PH/ Guide and tracker for putting me on a quality animal, and having a great stalk.

I have rufled somes feathers too bad....your either a:

1. True hunter
2. Semi True hunter
3. A shooter wanting bragging rights

And you will pay accordingly to your category it's that simple, and I have no problem to which category one falls in. It's personal choice and I respect that....to a point.

 

[FlyGuy]

Been out of it for years, but some of my pet gripes were as follows...

1. Clients with new gear... A safari isn't the time to figure out that your boots are uncomfortable, or how your new rifle or scope operates.
2. Clients that think camp staff are their personal slaves.
3. Clients that underestimate their level of fitness.
4. Clients that are easily excited... Generally leads to poor communication and shooting.
5. Clients that bring rifles that are too powerful for them. I'd rather have a Deadeye with a 243 than a flincher with a .300WM
6. Clients that pay for a once in a lifetime hunt and bring the cheapest ammo they could find.

And my number 1 pet peeve.... Tape measure hunters.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

Have any of you had any clients who don't want to or refuse to eat what they hunt, meaning the client shoots an animal and refuses to eat it? Do guides/ph's and cooks prefer the client eat what they hunt? Is the eating of the animals that are hunted part the whole adventure and expected by the outfitter?

For me personally, it's not about killing animals just to kill an animal for sport, there has to be a real purpose for me to kill an animal and it's the meat they provide and I'd like to experience the meat of these animals and also I'm on the carnivore diet so I'm all in on eating as much meat as possible.

We use a lot of the meat from hunted game in camp to feed the clients
Most clients want to eat the meat from animals hunted
Some is processed and sold some given to school, various orphanages etc and a lot to feed all our staff

 

[Carnivore hunter]

We use a lot of the meat from hunted game in camp to feed the clients
Most clients want to eat the meat from animals hunted
Some is processed and sold some given to school, various orphanages etc and a lot to feed all our staff

Before the client arrives in Africa, can clients make a request and ask for a specific animal to eat, for example if the client wants to try hippo, croc or zebra is that ok?

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

Before the client arrives in Africa, can clients make a request and ask for a specific animal to eat, for example if the client wants to try hippo, croc or zebra is that ok?

Yes sir
As
Long as we have some we will happily prepare it for the client

 

[Altitude sickness]

I have to disagree with the notion that “Rich”
People are boorish snobs that treat everyone badly. Is the opposite of my experience.

It could be the definition of what is wealthy or “Rich”. Any truly wealthy people I know or have met are the most polite, generous and well mannered people I have ever dealt with.

On average. No absolutes of course. The rudest most arrogant people I have dealt with are the Nouveau riche or the cocky Alpha Male small business owner that thinks he has money.

 

[50Gunner]

Wow! what a great and informative thread, I've only had five trips to Africa for hunting, with the first in 2015, have heard some absolute client horror stories, with one being a client tripped and shot my PH through the sleeve of his shirt with a 375 H&H magnum! I asked PH what he did, "I TOOK HIM IMMEDIATELY TO THE AIRPORT! HIS HUNT WAS OVER" I asked, how many days did he have left? "NINE DAYS, I DO NOT CARE!!!!! OVER!"

I don't blame this PH one bit, it's funny because at the conclusion of my first Safari I asked those PH's how I was as a client, they had for the full 14 days asked me how everything was, great group of guys with a Top Flight Operation, so after the meal at airport, shaking hands at my departure gate I asked them how I did as a client.

You did the work.
You did not bitch.
And we in 30 years here have seen no better shooting.

I ask this on each and every Safari, I also ask, PH's, Trackers, Cameraman, my Wife, as well as Tanzanian Game Scouts, at anytime during this hunt has ANYONE seen the muzzle of my rifles?

Not one time, no, never, that is job number one for me, the other is accurate shooting, the other is being in descent shape, that said, 10-12 miles daily through dry and wet river sand, over hill and mountain tracking buffalo with a 13.5lb 577 double and ammo belt in the Mbaragandu Game Reserve kicked my old butt ; ]

Another thing I quickly learned, if a PH calls an animal a machine, you better shoot it, those guys must hunt everyday for 6-8 months per year, if ANY animal gets them excited, you better take it, one PH said while looking through his bino, Sir, if you do not want this animal, I do! I took it.

Have also learned if any truly exceptional representative of an animal species shows up, you better take it, even if it's not on your bag list, you simply can not load up and go back to Africa to hunt that animal species for the price of the trophy fee, you may go a dozen times and never find such and animal, and there he stands, take him now.

That very thing happened to me, first Safari dumb luck I guess, a near 58" beautiful Kudu bull, he is a truly magnificent animal.

 

[Scott CWO]

I have to disagree with the notion that “Rich”
People are boorish snobs that treat everyone badly. Is the opposite of my experience.

It could be the definition of what is wealthy or “Rich”. Any truly wealthy people I know or have met are the most polite, generous and well mannered people I have ever dealt with.

On average. No absolutes of course. The rudest most arrogant people I have dealt with are the Nouveau riche or the cocky Alpha Male small business owner that thinks he has money.

100%!

I have guided multi, multi millionaires and one billionaire. Nicest, polite, most relaxed people that still send us Christmas cards.

I think attitudes are more about personality than income because I’ve also guided the nicest people that could barely afford the hunt.

Some of my pet peeves:
1. Hunters that walk at my quiet pace but too far behind me. I want personal space but don’t want you five yards behind me. You need to be able to quickly react to what I’ve spotted. I stop, you stop, I drop down, you drop down.
2. Hunters that are noisy. Learn to walk quietly (heels softly put down and then roll through the foot) avoiding branches, crunchy snow/leaves, etc… Some guys walk with heavy feet and as if they are just walking down the street. Be a hunter, not just a shooter.
3. Get your questions answered well in advance of the hunt. I’m on the mountain during season so don’t get upset when you can’t reach me easily. Your trip isn’t our only trip. You have directions and a place and time of arrival. Everything else should be handled beforehand.
4. Know your weapon and practice the four shooting positions. Ammo is cheap compared to everything else on the trip.
5. In areas with cell coverage, don’t be on your phone constantly instead of helping me look for game. As I said earlier, be a hunter, not just a shooter.
6. Some guys become experts in their own minds about the area after one trip in one week at one camp. I still learn something on every trip even though I’ve been doing this for 35 years. Your guide isn’t the only guide we employ; your camp isn’t necessarily the best or the only camp we have; your dates are not the only dates we successfully operated. Your experience was your experience but not the only experience we have had over time.

 

[mdwest]

My experience is that a persons behavior has little to do with their wealth and much more to do with their upbringing and the local culture of where they are from.

New Yorkers in general behave and speak differently than people raised in Cincinnati… the culture of Moscow is very different than the culture of Beijing which is very different than the culture of Houston..

Bar none the wealthiest person I know is also one of the most kind and generous people I know…

He made deep 9 figure wealth in the oil and gas industry…

He is well educated with a masters from Texas A&M in O&G engineering…

He was born to a reasonable degree of wealth (parents were also successful O&G executives)…

Yet he is one of the most down to earth and decent East Texas gentlemen you could ever meet…

You’d think he worked in the oil patch as a foreman all of his life, as opposed to founding and running a wildcatting and land speculation business 40 years ago that turned into a huge national organization…

 

[Frederik]

As a client from my prospective; I don't show emotions after killing, especially a 4 legged animal like the jerks on YouTube or the various hunting programs on satellite/cable with the trembling and high fives, etc., BS.

Killing is a sacred act.....ending of a life....which should never be taken lightly. I have no problem with killing. I just have a problem with a$$holes celebrating killing, cheapening a life, without honoring the hunt.

Selecting, shooting an animal, from a comfort controlled box blind, over feeder(s) is just that!! shooting not hunting. It's the perverbial shooting fish [a game animal] in a barrel.

These same self called/ proclaimed hunters scream about only hunting in area being free range hunts, degrading hunters /hunting in fenced in areas regardless whether the fence is 4 feet high or 10+ feet high and the property 10,000 or more acres taking more than a week to cover on foot.

So yeah, dead is dead, and it makes no difference to me if the animal is a fair representation of species or a world record class. I only do a protocol congratulations to the PH/ Guide and tracker for putting me on a quality animal, and having a great stalk.

I have rufled somes feathers too bad....your either a:

1. True hunter
2. Semi True hunter
3. A shooter wanting bragging rights

And you will pay accordingly to your category it's that simple, and I have no problem to which category one falls in. It's personal choice and I respect that....to a point.

Ridge, I understand not showing to much emation but at the campfire that night the way you are going to talk about the hunt and the animal will be adequate I'm sure.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

100%!

I have guided multi, multi millionaires and one billionaire. Nicest, polite, most relaxed people that still send us Christmas cards.

I think attitudes are more about personality than income because I’ve also guided the nicest people that could barely afford the hunt.

Some of my pet peeves:
1. Hunters that walk at my quiet pace but too far behind me. I want personal space but don’t want you five yards behind me. You need to be able to quickly react to what I’ve spotted. I stop, you stop, I drop down, you drop down.
2. Hunters that are noisy. Learn to walk quietly (heels softly put down and then roll through the foot) avoiding branches, crunchy snow/leaves, etc… Some guys walk with heavy feet and as if they are just walking down the street. Be a hunter, not just a shooter.
3. Get your questions answered well in advance of the hunt. I’m on the mountain during season so don’t get upset when you can’t reach me easily. Your trip isn’t our only trip. You have directions and a place and time of arrival. Everything else should be handled beforehand.
4. Know your weapon and practice the four shooting positions. Ammo is cheap compared to everything else on the trip.
5. In areas with cell coverage, don’t be on your phone constantly instead of helping me look for game. As I said earlier, be a hunter, not just a shooter.
6. Some guys become experts in their own minds about the area after one trip in one week at one camp. I still learn something on every trip even though I’ve been doing this for 35 years. Your guide isn’t the only guide we employ; your camp isn’t necessarily the best or the only camp we have; your dates are not the only dates we successfully operated. Your experience was your experience but not the only experience we have had over time.

My PH commented at the end of our first safari how little instruction was necessary. That's because I had nearly a half century tracking game up close and personal in rough country. I knew how to be quiet (once tracked a bull moose to his bed in a willow thicket and shot him in the heart as he slept ... less than twenty yards). Though I almost always hunted solo I was astute enough to stick close to the PH, especially when game was sighted. I think it would be beneficial if PHs explained to novice clients that it's best to only present a single profile when approaching game. Two separate moving profiles doubles the odds of being spotted. During the final stalk I ALWAYS make sure I am on the PH's tail and ensure I CANNOT see the game. If I can't see it, it can't see me. Use the PH as a shield right up till he sets up the sticks and steps out of the way. If you stay close behind the PH, then tracker can stay close behind you. Some PHs want the client to stay back and wait till they have ascertained the target and set up the sticks, but that should usually only be if the animal has yet to be qualified as a shooter and/or there's plenty of cover to conceal the client's belated approach. My last PH was always having me stay behind and wait. This became quite annoying but in the end it worked out in my favor. While he and the tracker were way down in the gully sneaking around to get a better look at an alerted herd of wildebeest, the gemsbuck bull we were supposed to be hunting suddenly appeared above me. It was curious about all the talking going on between the wildebeest. I shot it even though the PH was not at hand to give approval. By then I was tiring of his putting me in the balcony while he did his sneak about show. This same stay behind stunt cost me a buffalo. He and tracker were a good thirty yards away sneaking around in the brush when the designated cow with rest of the herd walked into view fifty yards away. But I can't shoot if PH doesn't give the okay and he couldn't see anything. Away they went. Oh well. Just a culling. It was a pretty place to hunt with lots of game. But eventually his theatrics got old. I finally told him the stay behind crap didn't wash with me and reasons why (the double profile). He was a crappy PH for lots of other reasons. But I worked with it as best I could. The hunt is about more than shooting stuff. If I don't shoot em I don't have to pay for em.

 

[Sabre]

I have to disagree with the notion that “Rich”
People are boorish snobs that treat everyone badly. Is the opposite of my experience.

It could be the definition of what is wealthy or “Rich”. Any truly wealthy people I know or have met are the most polite, generous and well mannered people I have ever dealt with.

On average. No absolutes of course. The rudest most arrogant people I have dealt with are the Nouveau riche or the cocky Alpha Male small business owner that thinks he has money.

I can only speak for my own comments on here, but mine weren't pushing a notion that all rich people are boorish snobs. My comments were pushing back against the idea that if you aren't rich you are a bad client. That has not been what I have seen at camps. I have watched both wealthy and less wealthy treat staff poorly. I think it has a lot more to do with the individual personality than their wealth.

Sometimes when someone pays for a service in a service industry (like guiding), they think that person becomes their servant, and they want to treat them as such. There is a difference between "providing a service" and "being a servant".

The vast majority of people don't act like that, whether rich or middle class. When they do, in my personal experience, it isn't only the middle class or below that behave that way as someone else was implying. There are plenty of examples of "rich" people out there doing it as well.

 

[Altitude sickness]

I think we all agree the hunt should be as a team. Not as employer and employees. Learn the entire teams name. Write them down when you get in camp. Name next to title or role.

Then use their name during the hunt. Not, hey tracker or hey game scout. Learn basic words in their language to talk to them. Most of their words for animals etc are more fun to use anyway.