Primitive North American Stone Weaponry - Mysteries

[rookhawk]

I can’t find a place on the Net to discuss this, so I figured this would be as good of a place as any.

There is a Native American artifact known as a banner stone that is fairly rare. Feel free to google them.

So the mystery is that for centuries nobody really knew what they were for, hence they called them banner stones because they looked like medieval banners made of stone with a drilled hole in them to be placed on a stick.

Anyway, I got one with a collection of Georgia artifacts and went deep down the rabbit hole of trying to figure these things out.

What science presently believes:

1.) They were made between 6000-10000 years ago. Not before. Not since.
2.) Many burial sites showed them adjacent to ATL ATL spears, so consensus is they are part of an ATL ATL system
3.) People have tried to recreate them and use them to figure out their beneficial use. Tests with them by expert ATL ATL throwers found they had no benefit and they reduced accuracy.

Modern paleontologists have a consensus hypothesis that they were used to add weight to the ATL ATL so it would sit cocked in a more stable position, thus allowing the hunter to remain motionless for longer durations before throwing their weapon. This consensus opinion isn’t really based on any good science I can see.

So here’s my musings on what they might be for, I’d love for others that are interested or familiar with them to chime in to debunk my idea.

I think they were a tool for killing mega fauna. The timeline of their use coincides with extinctions of our mega fauna, and their extinction would explain why they became obsolete long before the introduction of the bow and arrow.

Guesses as to how they work? I think they were actually thrown, rather than being hewn into the ATL ATL handle. This would possibly provide a few benefits. They are heavy, so it would introduce a great deal of momentum to the projectile. It also is a wing such as used on medieval spears, so it would stop over penetration. Lastly, I was thinking it might have been attached loosely to the spear so it would detach upon impact.

Why do I have these bizarre hypotheses? I was looking at the huge Clovis points used for killing mammoths and they are just ridiculous. Ridiculously hard to make, incredibly heavy to lug around, very fragile due to their size. The Clovis peoples 13000 years ago were forced to make very labor intensive speciality spears to kill mega fauna, whereas this newer design would allow the use of regular spear points. Just like dangerous game arrows, you can use the same broadhead for deer as you do for buffalo, the only difference is the total arrow weight that gives more penetration to one than the other. This theory would result in far less labor to make spears since a spear could kill mega fauna or a deer, just by swapping out the banner stone if it isn’t needed for more KE and momentum.

A banner stone is crazy hard to make, but certainly more durable and reusable than a huge mega fauna spear point. Interestingly enough, burial sites show these, often broken by man in some ceremonial fashion when the person was interred. Clearly our human ancestors thought they were a really big deal.

So, thats my hair brained idea. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[VertigoBE]

Well.. you learn something every day...

@rookhawk, do I understand correctly that you envision this banner stone to be attached, lashed to the spear, just behind the spear point, in order to give more weight to an otherwise light hunting spear? A bit like the ball of a weighted Roman pilum?

 

[rookhawk]

Well.. you learn something every day...

@rookhawk, do I understand correctly that you envision this banner stone to be attached, lashed to the spear, just behind the spear point, in order to give more weight to an otherwise light hunting spear? A bit like the ball of a weighted Roman pilum?

View attachment 629656

Exactly right. But I’ve found no archaeologist supporting my idea at all.

I also had a typo. These stones were used from 6000BC to 1000BC, so they died out before the bow and arrow I believe was a mainstay. So what was so important to carry these around in that 5000 year period?

Some say they were used for spinning, either to make fires or make cordage. That seems dumb to me, I can make a fly wheel out of dense wood in an hour, one of these stones would take weeks to make. To drill out the shaft, they would use a reed dipped in sandy clay, working for countless hours to make a perfect hole through the stone. So expensive to make, surely they had to have had a use worthy of such a caloric tax?

 

[grand veneur]

At first glance, these artifacts remind me of clubs, but primarily made for ceremonial purposes, or maybe scepters. I don't see a practical use for hunting for example, as the production of such artifacts was extremely difficult at the time and was therefore only made for very special occasions or for dignitaries.

 

[VertigoBE]

So expensive to make, surely they had to have had a use worthy of such a caloric tax?

There is one human activity that is even more exalted and revered than hunting throughout the ages, and that would be warfare.

As the cost of making such a stone is so high, yet once made they do not disintegrate as fast as the spearpoint itself during use and it is rendering the spear much more deadly. A case could be made that each warrior would have a special relationship with this piece of his equipment. They can even be a bit personalized as to the shape, rendering any spear, their spear, the spear with which they vanquished x number of enemies.

 

[fourfive8]

Like a friend, who is an expert on US Civil War arms says, “The real experts on the subject died a long time ago”.

The variety of forms and sizes suggest, logically, all such stones were not for same purpose. My first thought about them is that many were ceremonial amulets. Other such stones seem to hint at being the head for a club- either hafted/ lashed to a handle or secured to a handle in a rawhide pouch.

Some experts suggest some forms of them were used as counter weights for atlatl throwing sticks. I can understand the physics of that theory. However my instinct says it would be counterproductive to use them to add mass to the projectile itself. On related subject, IMO, most large projectile points like the Folsom and Clovis types, theoretically used for megafauna, were not cast or thrown by hand, bow or atlatl but were used on thrusting spears to “finish off” large game that had been otherwise incapacitated. But I am no expert of any kind, so anyone’s guess about such as the mystery “banner stones” is as good as anyone else’s.

 

[93marlin]

@rookhawk
In the photos shown, there's one thing in common. The hole. That alone would preclude those from being used as a weapon. That hole is a weak area.
My first thoughts, they are decorative.
I my small collection of stone tools and points, there a couple that seem to to have HAD a hole at some time.
My maternal grandfather had a very few decorative pieces, delicate and fairly small. That said, he did know where there was a burial mound that had several more decorative pieces in it, the mound had been partially opened by an uprooted tree,
Ancient peoples, by necessity, would not want to carry heavy items in to any warfare scenarios. Leaving any decorative pieces behind.
Just my 2¢.....

 

[grand veneur]

Similar objects are found in graves of the Neolithic and early Bronze Age in the Balkans, the Aegean, Anatolia and also Egypt, all of which are clearly identified as scepters or various ceremonial objects.

Without written evidence in prehistoric cultures, one can never say with certainty what these objects ultimately served for. That's why the door remain open to all speculation.