Preferred/Popular 416 projectiles

[Neil Molendyk]

If you are planning on using a solid, Swift breakaway 400 grain solids are great. Pricy, if you can find them

 

[Rob.450/400]

Using the Barnes Reloading Manual #4 for near maximum velocity from a 24" barrel, here are the momentum values as I have calculated them (below). I share this solely out of interest for the discussion.

400 gr. .416 bullet (SD = 0.330) at 2550 fps has a momentum value of: 145.7 ft-lbs
350 gr. . 416 bullet (SD= 0.289) at 2650 fps has a momentum value of: 133.5 ft-lbs

 

[Rob.450/400]

Reflect on the words of an African hunter with a lot of real world experience when it comes to penetration on large DG, W.D.M. Bell:
"There is a simple test for bullets suitable for killing large game. It should never be less than four times its diameter in length and should have a short round nose point and long parallel sides. Its jacket should be of steel of a thickness that will keep it together through any going, however tough. Or it should be of homogeneous metal."
(Emphasis added.). Bell, W.D.M., Small Bores Versus Big Bores, The American Rifleman, Dec. 1954, page 78.

Note that .416 caliber times 4 for the length of the suitable bullet according to Bell is: 1.664"
-The Cutting Edge 400 grain Safari Solid homogeneous bullet has an OAL of: 1.494"
-The Cutting Edge 350 grain Safari Solid homogeneous bullet has an OAL of: 1.331"

Why did W.M.D. Bell speak of a bullet for large game being 4 calibers in length? I think (my opinion) it was his way of speaking to sectional density as related to penetration, and thus, momentum, too.

A dear friend frequently reminds me that in external/terminal ballistics, bullet weight (mass) and caliber are constants. Velocity is a variable that is decreasing. Therefore, I maintain my opinion as mentioned above to use a 400 grain bullet in a .416 Rigby for DG, including hippo on land, due to SD, momentum, and thus penetration. I take no issue with others having a differing opinion. I merely share my thoughts and opinions.

I certainly am interested in others (your) comments, opinions, and ideas on this subject.

 

[michael458]

In speaking with @michael458 , the 350gr flat nosed mono metal solids actually penetrate better than the 400gr. They maintain stability during penetration better than the longer bullets. I believe this is due to the extra length that the mono metal bullets have due to being made out of brass. The lighter weight of the brass, makes the bullets longer in any given weight. So the 350gr Barnes banded solids or CEB solids may be just the ticket.

Let me clarify this just a bit for Toby......... because there are several factors at play in this statement.... one is Nose Profile, SD, velocity, and twist rates, have a serious effect on solid penetration. SD is only a factor if everything else is exactly the same.........

Twist rates in 416 calibers are common 1:14 or slower. 400 gr Bullets do not fully stabilize for the entire depth of penetration with 1:14 or slower.

Not all Nose Profiles react positive to increased velocity, however, the CEB #13 Nose Profile does react positively, and increased velocity, can overcome 1:14 instability to a point. This is a 67% meplat of caliber, and 65% is required for stability during terminal penetration, as long as the twist rate is not too slow in .416 caliber. In larger calibers, 458+, 65% can self stabilize for 90% or more of the total penetration during terminals.

350-370 gr bullets are completely stable in 1:14 and some slower twist rates, up to 1:16 I would say. The 350 #13 Solids penetrate to 64-65 inches straight at or around 2300-2400 fps.

SD does come into effect with CEB #13 350s and CEB #13 400s, when all else is equal......

The issue with the 400s is 100% stability throughout the entire depth of penetration.

Twist rates become even more of a factor with less than desirable designs.

 

[Luvthunt]

A Frames and TBSledgehammers. 2nd choice AFrames and Barnes BS

400gr

 

[Dirtdart]

If the OP is using a factory CZ-550 in .416 Rigby the rate of twist would be 1 in 16.5" according to a 2005 CZ catalog.

 

[michael458]

I have several barnes bullets on the way and some of them are 350gr banded solids, are these suitable for anything you may need a solid for? Elephant, hippo on land, Buffalo or do I need to step up to the 400gr?

The 350 Barnes will do anything you need to do in .416, and with the slower twist that you allegedly have, then probably a better choice.........

The Meplat got damaged on one of the bullets in this test........This was Pre-CEB..........

The Barnes FN is a good profile and good design, on most of those bullets the Meplat is 65% of caliber. I have used a lot of Barnes FN in the field before the CEB and Current designed North Forks.......

What I am going to show you is how velocity in 416 can increase stability of the 400s with slower twists........

At 2138 fps and 21 yard impact this bullet is just not stable at all in 1:14 twist rates...... it is all over the place.........even with a good design nose profile and proper size meplat........

A 350 fps increase in velocity and still at 1;14 twist rate depth of penetration and stability is greatly increased. But even still, it is not 100% Stable veering as far as 1 inch off course

 

[Backyardsniper]

I was reading some similar information in the book Dangerous Game Cartridges of Africa by Peter Van der Walt I believe it was.

 

[Backyardsniper]

The 350 Barnes will do anything you need to do in .416, and with the slower twist that you allegedly have, then probably a better choice.........

View attachment 451382

The Meplat got damaged on one of the bullets in this test........This was Pre-CEB..........

View attachment 451383

The Barnes FN is a good profile and good design, on most of those bullets the Meplat is 65% of caliber. I have used a lot of Barnes FN in the field before the CEB and Current designed North Forks.......

What I am going to show you is how velocity in 416 can increase stability of the 400s with slower twists........

At 2138 fps and 21 yard impact this bullet is just not stable at all in 1:14 twist rates...... it is all over the place.........even with a good design nose profile and proper size meplat........

View attachment 451384

A 350 fps increase in velocity and still at 1;14 twist rate depth of penetration and stability is greatly increased. But even still, it is not 100% Stable veering as far as 1 inch off course

View attachment 451385

So if I run a 350 then running it faster will only add to the stabilization? In theory if.you could run a 400gr fast enough out of 16 or 14 twist.you could.overcome the stability issue but with a 2350fps velocity from a slower twist you just don't have the RPM to keep the bullet from pitching or yawing off course. Looks like the 350gr might be the way to go.

 

[michael458]

So if I run a 350 then running it faster will only add to the stabilization?

It won't hurt it, that is for sure, but even at lower velocity the 350s are still stable. Higher velocity will enhance the up front hit with the Flat Meplat. And that can be substantial. Some nose profiles perform better than others with added velocity.

In theory if.you could run a 400gr fast enough out of 16 or 14 twist.you could.overcome the stability issue

No, its not theory, its a fact. Well established. In 416 caliber with you can increase substantially the stability with added velocity and again, various nose profiles react differently. We are talking stability during terminal penetration with solids. Meplat Size and Nose Profile are #1 and #2 of the factors of Solid Penetration. Different Nose Profiles react differently with velocity, some are enhanced greatly, some are not effected as much....... You can see two different nose profiles posted, and how they react to added velocities.......

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Personally, I load a locally produced projectile for my 416 called a Rhino. I can honestly say that from the ones that I have recovered, that there is, if any, not much difference in performance between that and something like a Swift A Frame. I shoot the 400gr soft, and believe that they have a 450gr option as well.

Has anyone seen them in the USA or elsewhere?

 

[TSIBINDI]

...I've used Trophy Bonded SH, and Speer AGS. Had a few of the TBSH "rivet" on brain shots. Experienced NO problems with the AGS...they just whistle right on thru.

 

[TOBY458]

So if I run a 350 then running it faster will only add to the stabilization? In theory if.you could run a 400gr fast enough out of 16 or 14 twist.you could.overcome the stability issue but with a 2350fps velocity from a slower twist you just don't have the RPM to keep the bullet from pitching or yawing off course. Looks like the 350gr might be the way to go.

Did you ever load any of the 350s up and try them?

 

[Backyardsniper]

I have not. I think the Sako is a 14 twist anyway but after doing some checking on the potential of the ballistics on the 350gr bullets, especially the TTSX with its higher BC. I'm going to be dling some testing

 

[Backyardsniper]

That info is for a 300gr ttsx which isn't available.but the 350gr8 ttsx is and it can be driven north of 2600fps. There is a 300grain tsx but it has a low BC. It can get over 2700fps and is very flat out to 400yds but I think because of the BC difference the 350 will outperform it.